Speed Cameras
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I remember a TV prog by Jeremy Clarkson mentioning a bunch of guys (almost a club) who specialized in destroying speed Cameras ...... to see if I could find any reference to the Club I put "speed camera destruction" into my fav. search engine and in just a few seconds my Internet connection was cut off 
A coincidence?
A coincidence?
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I have been shown some new technology that is based on GPS locators that will electronically limit speed to the local speed limit. The idea being that cars/lorries/buses fitted with the device will not be able to exceed the speed limit. Therefore no need for speed cameras or stealth taxes. It is still in prototype stage, but initial test are very promising.
Sound like bollocks to me - automation is NOT/NOT the answer. Rational limits & sensible driving (which does not necessarily equate to slower) are the key. You'll never eliminate the idiots - you need to make examples of them & ban them for a good long time. Real officers in real cars make a real difference - speed cameras levying a surrogate road tax is no way to ensure safer roads, however, it does well for council coffers!
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Every Monday morning around 5 - 5.30 AM there is at least one nutter who thinks that tailgating me will make me increase my speed.
In general, I do agree that speed cameras are barely anything more than revenue generating boxes. Mainly because their positioning is quite often completely ridiculous.
But to be honest, they don't bother me. If you can't safely slow down in time when you notice a speed camera, then I reckon the chances are you're either going too fast anyway and / or you're not alert enough.
The real problem is the ever more common succession of speed limit changes imposed along short stretches of roads.
Of course, I suppose cameras are also a distraction. I've often thought that about those speed bumps that, if you get your wheels positioned just right, they don't slow you down too much. Problem is, some attention inevitably gets used on the bump positioning instead of the road sides, other traffic etc.
As to that club of losers dedicated to burning the speed cameras - what a bunch of a*se holes. The cameras get replaced within a couple of days anyway. What does it achieve? Just costs us all even more money.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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....if you get your wheels positioned just right, they don't slow you down too much.
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quote:
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I have been shown some new technology that is based on GPS locators that will electronically limit speed to the local speed limit. The idea being that cars/lorries/buses fitted with the device will not be able to exceed the speed limit. Therefore no need for speed cameras or stealth taxes. It is still in prototype stage, but initial test are very promising.
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It's called "Intelligent Speed Adaption". If you want to be truely worried, type that in to Google and see some of the results. Sweden, the UK and the Netherlands are among the countries most keen on it and it's way beyond prototype - it's into trials stage. The thing that the politicoes are still struggling with is how to get it introduced with the minimum of fuss and accusations of Big Brother. But they fully intend that every car sold in roughly ten years time will have this fitted.
Sweden has gone so far as to suggest that their aim to to reduce the number of road deaths to Zero. Cloud cuckoo land, obviously, but there it is.
The thin end of the wedge was the Revenue Cameras....
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I have been shown some new technology that is based on GPS locators that will electronically limit speed to the local speed limit. The idea being that cars/lorries/buses fitted with the device will not be able to exceed the speed limit. Therefore no need for speed cameras or stealth taxes. It is still in prototype stage, but initial test are very promising.
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It's called "Intelligent Speed Adaption". If you want to be truely worried, type that in to Google and see some of the results. Sweden, the UK and the Netherlands are among the countries most keen on it and it's way beyond prototype - it's into trials stage. The thing that the politicoes are still struggling with is how to get it introduced with the minimum of fuss and accusations of Big Brother. But they fully intend that every car sold in roughly ten years time will have this fitted.
Sweden has gone so far as to suggest that their aim to to reduce the number of road deaths to Zero. Cloud cuckoo land, obviously, but there it is.
The thin end of the wedge was the Revenue Cameras....
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So when someone changes the limit, say for roadworks etc, and forgets to adjust the gps data, who gets the fine? Computer company? Negligent workman? Driver? I bet I know the answer.
Surely these devices encourage INATTENTION at the wheel rather than the reverse? Belgium is banning cruise control for that reason, due to an increase in related accidents. Surely this is just a modernised cruise control. If you can't monitor your speed and the road conditions/limits yourself, then shouldn't be on the road fact. Likewise, if you can't use cruise control sensibly and resist the temptation not to disengage it until the last moment, you too deserve to be taken off the road.
Why we should all have to suffer because a select few morons (who shouldn't be licenced anyway) can't keep a good lookout is beyond me. I bet these are the same fu*kwits that drive around all day long with their fog lamps burning holes in everone's retinae!
Speed does not kill (even a Chief Constable admitted this- I forget which one), it is irresponsible use of speed that is dangerous and exacerbates accidents. I know from experience that my modern abs-equipped car can stop far more expeditiously than my old 1972 MG, yet the same limits exist. Driving 70mph in the MG feels much more dangerous than driving the modern car at 100mph. Forcing everyone to rigidly, electronically adhere to the speed limit won't stop them from hitting the child who runs into the road, so this 'zero road deaths' idea is complete tosh.
Surely these devices encourage INATTENTION at the wheel rather than the reverse? Belgium is banning cruise control for that reason, due to an increase in related accidents. Surely this is just a modernised cruise control. If you can't monitor your speed and the road conditions/limits yourself, then shouldn't be on the road fact. Likewise, if you can't use cruise control sensibly and resist the temptation not to disengage it until the last moment, you too deserve to be taken off the road.
Why we should all have to suffer because a select few morons (who shouldn't be licenced anyway) can't keep a good lookout is beyond me. I bet these are the same fu*kwits that drive around all day long with their fog lamps burning holes in everone's retinae!
Speed does not kill (even a Chief Constable admitted this- I forget which one), it is irresponsible use of speed that is dangerous and exacerbates accidents. I know from experience that my modern abs-equipped car can stop far more expeditiously than my old 1972 MG, yet the same limits exist. Driving 70mph in the MG feels much more dangerous than driving the modern car at 100mph. Forcing everyone to rigidly, electronically adhere to the speed limit won't stop them from hitting the child who runs into the road, so this 'zero road deaths' idea is complete tosh.
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I find cruise control positively helpful in low traffic density restricted speed areas where there are lots of hazards. Instead of scanning the speedo to stay within the limit I can focus all my attention on the potential hazards.
Shame about the white van driver attached to the rear bumper - guess he will have to stick to the limit too.
Shame about the white van driver attached to the rear bumper - guess he will have to stick to the limit too.
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Yes cruise control on, sit back and relax whilst drinking a cup of steaming hot coffee.
And because I'm not going very fast I find I have loads of time to look at all the interesting houses as they go past, and I can try and see in through the windows to relieve the boredom.
And because I'm not going very fast I find I have loads of time to look at all the interesting houses as they go past, and I can try and see in through the windows to relieve the boredom.
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Speed does not kill (even a Chief Constable admitted this- I forget which one), it is irresponsible use of speed that is dangerous and exacerbates accidents.
Fact is, the slower you go, the more time you have to react safely to a given situation. By extension, many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast. End of story.
If you can't monitor your speed and the road conditions/limits yourself, then shouldn't be on the road fact.
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Speed is a contributory factor but it is poor driving skills that is the prime culprit.
As all motorcyclists will tell you - failure to achieve and maintain the national speed limit during your test (which must include dual carriageway) will result in failure as this is deemed to display inability to control your vehicle adequately.
The way to reduce death on the road is to improve driver training, including the use of skid pan training and possibly introduce re-training/licencing. At least that way the old boy of 67 who learnt to drive when people walked in front of their vehicles with a red flag would be cpable of dealing with modern traffic.
As all motorcyclists will tell you - failure to achieve and maintain the national speed limit during your test (which must include dual carriageway) will result in failure as this is deemed to display inability to control your vehicle adequately.
The way to reduce death on the road is to improve driver training, including the use of skid pan training and possibly introduce re-training/licencing. At least that way the old boy of 67 who learnt to drive when people walked in front of their vehicles with a red flag would be cpable of dealing with modern traffic.
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quote:
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That's about as clever as saying "Guns don't kill people. People kill people"
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Which is a truism. No gun has ever killed a person without human interaction. Fact.
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Fact is, the slower you go, the more time you have to react safely to a given situation. By extension, many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast. End of story.
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Unfortunately, not fact at all, or the end of the story. Check the stats I posted earlier. Speed *alone* is rarely the cause.
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If you can't monitor your speed and the road conditions/limits yourself, then shouldn't be on the road fact.
But that's just the problem. A lot of people think they can limit themselves correctly according to road conditions etc. Unfortunately, they're not always right.
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And people wouldn't kill themselves if they didn't fall off ladders, electrocute themselves etc etc. Life is dangerous. Get used to it.
Very poor troll. Try harder next time.
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That's about as clever as saying "Guns don't kill people. People kill people"
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Which is a truism. No gun has ever killed a person without human interaction. Fact.
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Fact is, the slower you go, the more time you have to react safely to a given situation. By extension, many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast. End of story.
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Unfortunately, not fact at all, or the end of the story. Check the stats I posted earlier. Speed *alone* is rarely the cause.
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If you can't monitor your speed and the road conditions/limits yourself, then shouldn't be on the road fact.
But that's just the problem. A lot of people think they can limit themselves correctly according to road conditions etc. Unfortunately, they're not always right.
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And people wouldn't kill themselves if they didn't fall off ladders, electrocute themselves etc etc. Life is dangerous. Get used to it.
Very poor troll. Try harder next time.
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Coping strategy
I love this (endless) discussion...
Moaning about speed cameras restricting your presumably god-given right to drive at whichever speed you choose is like taking up boxing and whining about a bloody nose.
Everyone thinks they are a good driver (hands up who'll admit to being crap behind the wheel?). Everyone thinks they have the ability to judge 'the conditions' or an 'appropriate' speed (anyone know someone with bad judgement?). Everyone knows that speed cameras raise money and do little else.
Why not drive at whatever speed you feel comfortable with, and then have the self-respect and maturity to accept the consequences?
Speed cameras, policemen and pedestrians exist. If you run foul of them. cope. If you don't want to get in trouble, walk - but please don't whine about it.
ps. I ride a sportsbike. They fall over if you go slow ...
Moaning about speed cameras restricting your presumably god-given right to drive at whichever speed you choose is like taking up boxing and whining about a bloody nose.
Everyone thinks they are a good driver (hands up who'll admit to being crap behind the wheel?). Everyone thinks they have the ability to judge 'the conditions' or an 'appropriate' speed (anyone know someone with bad judgement?). Everyone knows that speed cameras raise money and do little else.
Why not drive at whatever speed you feel comfortable with, and then have the self-respect and maturity to accept the consequences?
Speed cameras, policemen and pedestrians exist. If you run foul of them. cope. If you don't want to get in trouble, walk - but please don't whine about it.
ps. I ride a sportsbike. They fall over if you go slow ...
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Which is a truism. No gun has ever killed a person without human interaction. Fact
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Fact is, the slower you go, the more time you have to react safely to a given situation. By extension, many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast. End of story.
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Unfortunately, not fact at all, or the end of the story. Check the stats I posted earlier. Speed *alone* is rarely the cause.
Fact is, the slower you go, the more time you have to react safely to a given situation. By extension, many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast. End of story.
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Unfortunately, not fact at all, or the end of the story. Check the stats I posted earlier. Speed *alone* is rarely the cause.
I don't know how those statistics were put together, so it's hard to comment. Anyway, it's not really the point as those stats deal with the cause of accidents and don't deal with the consequences. Obviously, if you have a collision at speed the consequences of an accident, through whatever cause, are going to be more serious than at lower speeds.
And people wouldn't kill themselves if they didn't fall off ladders, electrocute themselves etc etc. Life is dangerous. Get used to it.
My issue is not the limits, or the consequences, but the manner of policeing. As I say, thin end of the wedge.
But I actually do have an issue with some of the ridiculous speed limits too.
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posted 16th March 2005 12:39
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Not necessarily intentful human interaction. The speeding idiot doesn't intend to kill anyone either.
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And your point is?
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So you honestly think increasing your speed wont reduce the amount of time you have to react? Please do explain.
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I am not arguing the effects of speed, but the absolute relationship between speed and safety, that you allude to when you say "many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast". The safest roads in the UK are the fastest, the motorways. Go figure.
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I don't know how those statistics were put together, so it's hard to comment. Anyway, it's not really the point as those stats deal with the cause of accidents and don't deal with the consequences. Obviously, if you have a collision at speed the consequences of an accident, through whatever cause, are going to be more serious than at lower speeds.
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The stats are from the DETR and Police sources. Obvously a higher speed crash will be more damaging, but the relationship of higher speed is not, inter alia, proportional to the likelihood of crashing, as the stats (from every source, other than some very well massaged ones put out by the Speed Kills mob) show.
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But it's not just "themselves" we're talking about. Road users kill other road users. So everyone is forced to, as you say, "get used to it".
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Indeed. It's called Life. If you don't like it, might I suggest staying in bed with the duvet over your head? You'll still not live forever, but that is the nature of it.
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Agreed But I actually do have an issue with some of the ridiculous speed limits too.
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Ah. A hobby horse. I thought there might be one somewhere.
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Not necessarily intentful human interaction. The speeding idiot doesn't intend to kill anyone either.
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And your point is?
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So you honestly think increasing your speed wont reduce the amount of time you have to react? Please do explain.
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I am not arguing the effects of speed, but the absolute relationship between speed and safety, that you allude to when you say "many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast". The safest roads in the UK are the fastest, the motorways. Go figure.
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I don't know how those statistics were put together, so it's hard to comment. Anyway, it's not really the point as those stats deal with the cause of accidents and don't deal with the consequences. Obviously, if you have a collision at speed the consequences of an accident, through whatever cause, are going to be more serious than at lower speeds.
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The stats are from the DETR and Police sources. Obvously a higher speed crash will be more damaging, but the relationship of higher speed is not, inter alia, proportional to the likelihood of crashing, as the stats (from every source, other than some very well massaged ones put out by the Speed Kills mob) show.
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But it's not just "themselves" we're talking about. Road users kill other road users. So everyone is forced to, as you say, "get used to it".
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Indeed. It's called Life. If you don't like it, might I suggest staying in bed with the duvet over your head? You'll still not live forever, but that is the nature of it.
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Agreed But I actually do have an issue with some of the ridiculous speed limits too.
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Ah. A hobby horse. I thought there might be one somewhere.
Last edited by WebPilot; 16th Mar 2005 at 12:32.
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I am not arguing the effects of speed, but the absolute relationship between speed and safety, that you allude to when you say "many road deaths could have been avoided if the driver wasn't going so fast". The safest roads in the UK are the fastest, the motorways. Go figure.
If you want to consider the "speed kills" statement in a completely literal sense, then of course it's not the case. However, anyone with half a brain would realise what the significance is beyond the convenience of the marketing campaign's slogan.
Your stats don't actually show what the relationship of "speed to crash likelyhood" is at all. All they show is the proportion of crashes attributed to speeding compared to other accident causes, which is a completely different thing to showing the proportion of speeders that end up as crash victims. For all you know, that 12% of crashes attributed to speeding could be made up of 100% of the speeding population. Of course this isn't the case, but it illustrates the problem with the conclusions you're wrongly drawing from the stats.
Indeed. It's called Life. If you don't like it, might I suggest staying in bed with the duvet over your head? You'll still not live forever, but that is the nature of it.
Ok, so you may be able to always drive at the correct speed for the given road conditions / hazards etc? Congratulations. As emergov so rightly says, everyone likes to think they're a great driver. Some people have several crashes and still believe they're great drivers.
Ah. A hobby horse. I thought there might be one somewhere.
I do think, as I have said in previous posts, that a lot of enforced speed limits seem to be both unrealistic and inappropriate. I don't think I've said anything to the contrary?
Last edited by chromate; 16th Mar 2005 at 17:03.
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Yes, and I could travel for miles in the desert at great speeds without ever having an accident or killing anyone. Surprise surprise! I don't think anyone's arguing this point?
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You seem to be. There is no linear correlation between either liklihood of crashing, or severity as you seem to suggest.
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Your stats don't actually show what the relationship of "speed to crash likelyhood" is at all. All they show is the proportion of crashes attributed to speeding compared to other accident causes, which is a completely different thing to showing the proportion of speeders that end up as crash victims. For all you know, that 12% of crashes attributed to speeding could be made up of 100% of the speeding population. Of course this isn't the case, but it illustrates the problem with the conclusions you're wrongly drawing from the stats.
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Wrong. The stats cannot show cause, no stats covering the entire population on road users can. They are indicative of trends, from which the "speed kills" mantra can be clearly debunked.
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This amounts to saying "keep off the road so bad drivers can drive badly without endangering your life". Err no - keep your bad driving under control so I can travel safely. Obviously life has its risks. Some of the sporting activities I do are quite risky. But to not try and minimize the risks is unarguably stupid
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No, it doesn't. The meaning is clear, however much you try to twist it. There is risk in all activities which cannot entirely be eliminated. To reduce risk is sensible, but to take one aspect of risk and to try to apply it to all situations is nonsense. As a road user you have to assume a certain level of risk, or else stay at home. You again correlate "bad driving" with "speed".
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Ok, so you may be able to always drive at the correct speed for the given road conditions / hazards etc? Congratulations. As emergov so rightly says, everyone likes to think they're a great driver. Some people have several crashes and still believe they're great drivers.
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I assume nothing. But I can lay claim to a blemish free record over 25 years of intensive bike and car use.
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How's that then? I do think, as I have said in previous posts, that a lot of enforced speed limits seem to be both unrealistic and inappropriate. I don't think I've said anything to the contrary?
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On the contrary, I think that most current speed limits are reasonable, acheiving balance between safety and the need to keep traffic moving.
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Yes, and I could travel for miles in the desert at great speeds without ever having an accident or killing anyone. Surprise surprise! I don't think anyone's arguing this point?
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You seem to be. There is no linear correlation between either liklihood of crashing, or severity as you seem to suggest.
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Your stats don't actually show what the relationship of "speed to crash likelyhood" is at all. All they show is the proportion of crashes attributed to speeding compared to other accident causes, which is a completely different thing to showing the proportion of speeders that end up as crash victims. For all you know, that 12% of crashes attributed to speeding could be made up of 100% of the speeding population. Of course this isn't the case, but it illustrates the problem with the conclusions you're wrongly drawing from the stats.
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Wrong. The stats cannot show cause, no stats covering the entire population on road users can. They are indicative of trends, from which the "speed kills" mantra can be clearly debunked.
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This amounts to saying "keep off the road so bad drivers can drive badly without endangering your life". Err no - keep your bad driving under control so I can travel safely. Obviously life has its risks. Some of the sporting activities I do are quite risky. But to not try and minimize the risks is unarguably stupid
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No, it doesn't. The meaning is clear, however much you try to twist it. There is risk in all activities which cannot entirely be eliminated. To reduce risk is sensible, but to take one aspect of risk and to try to apply it to all situations is nonsense. As a road user you have to assume a certain level of risk, or else stay at home. You again correlate "bad driving" with "speed".
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Ok, so you may be able to always drive at the correct speed for the given road conditions / hazards etc? Congratulations. As emergov so rightly says, everyone likes to think they're a great driver. Some people have several crashes and still believe they're great drivers.
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I assume nothing. But I can lay claim to a blemish free record over 25 years of intensive bike and car use.
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How's that then? I do think, as I have said in previous posts, that a lot of enforced speed limits seem to be both unrealistic and inappropriate. I don't think I've said anything to the contrary?
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On the contrary, I think that most current speed limits are reasonable, acheiving balance between safety and the need to keep traffic moving.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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Another strange fact is motorways have the highest speed limits and are statisically the safest...
So how can anyone justify the cameras on the motorways and indeed dual carriage ways with derestricted speed limits. Money raising pure and simple!
We have a nice long straight residential road here in the village (and others too which have in appropriately low speed limits), and recently talking with a local traffic sargent I muttered about their missing presence in the village - his reply was "We can't justify it on cost basis..." when asked what he meant he explained that the cost of an officer with a speed gun would not balance the books with the number of people prosecuted... apparently a decision out of the police's hands.
PW
So how can anyone justify the cameras on the motorways and indeed dual carriage ways with derestricted speed limits. Money raising pure and simple!
We have a nice long straight residential road here in the village (and others too which have in appropriately low speed limits), and recently talking with a local traffic sargent I muttered about their missing presence in the village - his reply was "We can't justify it on cost basis..." when asked what he meant he explained that the cost of an officer with a speed gun would not balance the books with the number of people prosecuted... apparently a decision out of the police's hands.
PW