Recruiting a problem
Although the RAF of today is not something I would join, the RAF of but 5 years ago was. So mine are not exactly "When I joined 36 years ago...." comments, more a reflection upon the way things have plummetted over the last 5 years.
The London-Paris air race in 1959 included several Hunter 7s and CFS helicopters. The RAF fielded a winning team..
Imagine the 'Overarching strategies', 'Management initiatives' and 'Blue sky thinking' needed to repeat such a performance today! Let alone being able to fly a Harrier out of St Pancras across the Atlantic as in the 1969 Daily Mail Transatlantic Air Race!
The London-Paris air race in 1959 included several Hunter 7s and CFS helicopters. The RAF fielded a winning team..
Imagine the 'Overarching strategies', 'Management initiatives' and 'Blue sky thinking' needed to repeat such a performance today! Let alone being able to fly a Harrier out of St Pancras across the Atlantic as in the 1969 Daily Mail Transatlantic Air Race!
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The social problem I see with this recruitment problem is when I was younger the air/army cadets, scouts, boys brigade, and other uniformed youth movements gave the youth of that generation a worth while pastime and made wearing a uniform natural. They did exciting things in these organisations that took effort teamwork and energy; compare this to the x box generation.
I would have no problem letting my children join any branch of the services, there still is much on offer if you don’t become cynical and look for opportunities.
At the moment the Air Training Corps is desperate for adult instructors could you help out? Because nearly all of the high calibre recruits come from this organisation
I would have no problem letting my children join any branch of the services, there still is much on offer if you don’t become cynical and look for opportunities.
At the moment the Air Training Corps is desperate for adult instructors could you help out? Because nearly all of the high calibre recruits come from this organisation
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and made wearing a uniform natural
Don't get me wrong, I was a Queen's Scout myself, but be careful applying the values system that you were raised under to the youngsters of today.
The forces are an excellent form of employment; just don't fall into the trap of believing that that today's youth needs the military more than it needs them. Future conditions of service will be defined by the needs of "yoofs".
BEagle
Please!!! You are clearly a man with some influence and strong opinions, also with an axe to grind. The RAF is fully stretched, whilst a race around the world is fun... how does that generate value for the tax payers or help our boys and girls in the gulf???
The military is there to provide a more aggresive from of government policy,not a Boys Own adventure.
But it could once do such things - and that's the point.
Both those events motivated me - as did watching the fast(ish) jets of the time wazzing around at low level virtually anywhere you went in the UK.
The only axe I have to grind is with the spineless characters of the past who wouldn't stand up for the RAF against the beancounters lest it prejudice their next star....
Both those events motivated me - as did watching the fast(ish) jets of the time wazzing around at low level virtually anywhere you went in the UK.
The only axe I have to grind is with the spineless characters of the past who wouldn't stand up for the RAF against the beancounters lest it prejudice their next star....
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As for recruiting, perhaps the average 16-24 year old, educated middle classes quite rightly do not relate to the abusive political use of the armed forces in places such as Iraq. 70+ service personnel have given their lives and is the UK seeing a tangible benefit, was there any justification in the first place? Most people were not interested in the first place or saw through the blatent spin and lies produced by this government.
Other reasons lie in the terms of service offered, who wants to spend 16-22 years in one company in this day and age, not many. It is a problem that will only materialise in the people that come through the system and i am afraid to say this is becoming increasingly evident.
My vine yard awaits...
Other reasons lie in the terms of service offered, who wants to spend 16-22 years in one company in this day and age, not many. It is a problem that will only materialise in the people that come through the system and i am afraid to say this is becoming increasingly evident.
My vine yard awaits...
Last edited by DuckDodgers; 4th Mar 2005 at 16:12.
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Beagle is so right!! Sometimes the old sods (yes I'm one of them too) are correct. The world would function a lot better if we listened to them. Bear in mind, 1% of the yooth do come up with innovation, so should not be totally ignored!
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BEagle
Absolute b****x old chap. If you believe that, in the past 50 years or so, starred items never had an eye on their own well being, then you dwell in fantasy land; tell us of those very senior officers who ever fell on their sword? (no doubt you'll bring up the odd one, but it's never been the trend). I gratefully partook in several moral-raising fasty-jet events, and they were indeed great times. But gone they are, and that's simply a fact of times moving on - sad, but reality. Flying stunts at Hendon must've also been great, but they're all part of history. Be thankful you enjoyed what you did, and let the present crop get on with what they do - nothing worse than an old git sat at the bar telling the new bloods 'how great it used to be in my time'. Whatever your reasoning -------
And as for 'it could once do such things' - IMHO it/they, still does/do; but these days 'they' have to do it by earning their shilling more than I ever did. God bless them, and encourage them that do, and those that thankfully still wish to fly, militarily.
Off to Friday happy hour.
Absolute b****x old chap. If you believe that, in the past 50 years or so, starred items never had an eye on their own well being, then you dwell in fantasy land; tell us of those very senior officers who ever fell on their sword? (no doubt you'll bring up the odd one, but it's never been the trend). I gratefully partook in several moral-raising fasty-jet events, and they were indeed great times. But gone they are, and that's simply a fact of times moving on - sad, but reality. Flying stunts at Hendon must've also been great, but they're all part of history. Be thankful you enjoyed what you did, and let the present crop get on with what they do - nothing worse than an old git sat at the bar telling the new bloods 'how great it used to be in my time'. Whatever your reasoning -------
And as for 'it could once do such things' - IMHO it/they, still does/do; but these days 'they' have to do it by earning their shilling more than I ever did. God bless them, and encourage them that do, and those that thankfully still wish to fly, militarily.
Off to Friday happy hour.
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Duckdodgers - Bye then !
You clearly haven't been reading this thread.
I took a pay drop to join the RN and have never regretted a minute. After over 30 yrs service I can honestly say that I enjoy it as much today as I did the day |i joined and as I approach 5000 hours I still get the buzz when climbing into the aircraft...
You clearly haven't been reading this thread.
I took a pay drop to join the RN and have never regretted a minute. After over 30 yrs service I can honestly say that I enjoy it as much today as I did the day |i joined and as I approach 5000 hours I still get the buzz when climbing into the aircraft...
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You just have to read the Nottingham thread to realise what fun it can be flying from the sea, never quite knowing where the airfield is (certainly moved from the take off point) and no diversion to boot!
I had a fantastic time flying in the RN. The bit from the sea the best of all - fortunately always made it back to the deck despite "Mum's" best attempt to ensure I didn't.
As for change, conditions of service, "better in my day", kids mowadays want to move on every few years for promotion etc - what has changed? Life has always been like this, whether in the Service or not.
The fact is Service flying is still the most fun and most professionally rewarding, and flying in the RN the best of all -just look at the threads to see all the positive comments from the Navy lads vs the drips from the Crabs. What other Service can you be flying from the deck in the morning, alongside paradise in the afternoon, trap a millionaire at the Cockers P in the evening, get p----d, wake up next morning back at sea ready to fly nce more in the most challenging environment of all.
Fly Navy - you know it make sense!
I had a fantastic time flying in the RN. The bit from the sea the best of all - fortunately always made it back to the deck despite "Mum's" best attempt to ensure I didn't.
As for change, conditions of service, "better in my day", kids mowadays want to move on every few years for promotion etc - what has changed? Life has always been like this, whether in the Service or not.
The fact is Service flying is still the most fun and most professionally rewarding, and flying in the RN the best of all -just look at the threads to see all the positive comments from the Navy lads vs the drips from the Crabs. What other Service can you be flying from the deck in the morning, alongside paradise in the afternoon, trap a millionaire at the Cockers P in the evening, get p----d, wake up next morning back at sea ready to fly nce more in the most challenging environment of all.
Fly Navy - you know it make sense!
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I don't want to disappoint you all, but I have more than enough young people working for me that are desparate for a career in the Service. Most are of a high calibre (I wouldn't send them to OASC if they were not!) and all are keen. Unfortunately many of them fail to achieve a place because of the recent downsizing, or, I believe our lords and masters call it 'right-sizing'.
There is a point about retention though!
kipper
There is a point about retention though!
kipper
Bismark,
That's the difference between the shinier service and the RAF- us crabs would trap a millionairESS. Still, whatever you can get aboard the boat, eh?
That's the difference between the shinier service and the RAF- us crabs would trap a millionairESS. Still, whatever you can get aboard the boat, eh?
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Kippermate,
Sounds like you send your people to the RAF side of things at OASC? The Fleet Air Arm is not downsizing so send your high calibre boys and girls to the RN - Si Clik will help with advice. The way things are going they will have a better chance flying Fast Jets the Navy route than with the RAF.
Jobza,
Millionairesses tend to be old and have young men hanging off their wallets (cleary attractive to the C..bs!), Millionaires tend to be old and have lovely young women hanging off their wallets (clearly attractive to the RN!).
FLY NAVY - You know it makes sense (and they can think more laterally than Jobza!)
Sounds like you send your people to the RAF side of things at OASC? The Fleet Air Arm is not downsizing so send your high calibre boys and girls to the RN - Si Clik will help with advice. The way things are going they will have a better chance flying Fast Jets the Navy route than with the RAF.
Jobza,
Millionairesses tend to be old and have young men hanging off their wallets (cleary attractive to the C..bs!), Millionaires tend to be old and have lovely young women hanging off their wallets (clearly attractive to the RN!).
FLY NAVY - You know it makes sense (and they can think more laterally than Jobza!)
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Thanks for the useful comments here.
A few more points:
The RN is recruiting across all branches and specialisations at the same rate as it has for at least the last 5 years.
We NEED young people to join NOW especially into the aviation related branches.
My viewing of the RAF figures tells me this year has been a blip to prevent too many redundancies and it will begin to creep up. The RN will tell you that you should keep recruiting even when thinning out from the top.
Bismark is spot on about the career and clearly he still loves it as well.
My point here is that whilst the old cynics may be turned off the job and leaving but why aren't the young people even interested (in my time in the RN ..all 22years...there has always been a base group of complete cynics). A rough reading of baseline statistics shows application rates well down.
More Please....!!
A few more points:
The RN is recruiting across all branches and specialisations at the same rate as it has for at least the last 5 years.
We NEED young people to join NOW especially into the aviation related branches.
My viewing of the RAF figures tells me this year has been a blip to prevent too many redundancies and it will begin to creep up. The RN will tell you that you should keep recruiting even when thinning out from the top.
Bismark is spot on about the career and clearly he still loves it as well.
My point here is that whilst the old cynics may be turned off the job and leaving but why aren't the young people even interested (in my time in the RN ..all 22years...there has always been a base group of complete cynics). A rough reading of baseline statistics shows application rates well down.
More Please....!!
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Having been a spectator to prune for a few years now i thought this would be an appropriate time to post my first reply.
Having been in the RAF for 25 years i have seen many changes to how we do things. It seems that all people say is "it was better in my day" and inform us of how much fun it used to be. I for one still enjoy the job i do and believe i will do until i am forced to leave.
However it is that last bit about having to leave, i believe is one of the main reasons that a recruitment problem exists. Gone are the days whe the military was a job for life. Even if you are at the top of your particular tree, one day it is likely that the axe will fall, and at an inappropriate time of life you will be forced onto the civilian job market More often than not it will be at a time when you have young children and possibly a mortgage to sustain. To join the military is a temporary situation and you must prepare yourself to leave when you are requested to, or forced to (redundancies).
The fun does still exist (although being eroded) and the ability to see the world (especially sandy bits) is still there.
Having been ground and aircrew, i have realised that the only place to be is in the air, still a great job.
Having been in the RAF for 25 years i have seen many changes to how we do things. It seems that all people say is "it was better in my day" and inform us of how much fun it used to be. I for one still enjoy the job i do and believe i will do until i am forced to leave.
However it is that last bit about having to leave, i believe is one of the main reasons that a recruitment problem exists. Gone are the days whe the military was a job for life. Even if you are at the top of your particular tree, one day it is likely that the axe will fall, and at an inappropriate time of life you will be forced onto the civilian job market More often than not it will be at a time when you have young children and possibly a mortgage to sustain. To join the military is a temporary situation and you must prepare yourself to leave when you are requested to, or forced to (redundancies).
The fun does still exist (although being eroded) and the ability to see the world (especially sandy bits) is still there.
Having been ground and aircrew, i have realised that the only place to be is in the air, still a great job.
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Si,
Thanks for the compliment but I retired many years ago. Enjoyed every minute of my time.
Cyclone,
The Harriers are a Joint force 50:50 RN:RAF. Just because the a/c sit with the RAF does not mean they dictate the manning - they don't MOD does.
FLY NAVY-be the best!
Thanks for the compliment but I retired many years ago. Enjoyed every minute of my time.
Cyclone,
The Harriers are a Joint force 50:50 RN:RAF. Just because the a/c sit with the RAF does not mean they dictate the manning - they don't MOD does.
FLY NAVY-be the best!
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If you want to join the RN and fly fixed wing there are plenty of opportunities. We currently operate Harriers, Jetstreams, Hawks and have Officers flying the Joint Strike Fighter.
You can also teach on the Tucano at RNAS Linton or fly Grobs from Plymouth....
You can also teach on the Tucano at RNAS Linton or fly Grobs from Plymouth....