UAS 's to close (Merged)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The UAS FT was a waste of money as they put unsuitable candidates forwad for pilot training and only one of them even qualified as a nav and then only on the then 'nav trainer.'
Curiously the two who wanted to be navs at the outset had better piloting skills, both went muds and both, last I heard, made wg cdr.
Curiously the two who wanted to be navs at the outset had better piloting skills, both went muds and both, last I heard, made wg cdr.
I guess that was pre-1968 before the massive increase in University Cadetships, Pontius? Quite probable that things weren't quite so tight back then, regarding pilot suitability.
We had a few (very few) people who couldn't manage the Chipmunk when I was a student in '69-'73; however, when I went back as a QFI in 1989, the CFI used to hold staff meetings and we'd root out those who clearly weren't pulling their weight. There would be a queue of people outside the bosses office later in the week who would thn be given the bad news.... But people would have to be pretty awful to be chopped for lack of flying skill on the Bulldog. (Of course if they could tell their ar$e from their elbows, they could always join as a navigator
)
And that was before this streaming nonsense started!
We had a few (very few) people who couldn't manage the Chipmunk when I was a student in '69-'73; however, when I went back as a QFI in 1989, the CFI used to hold staff meetings and we'd root out those who clearly weren't pulling their weight. There would be a queue of people outside the bosses office later in the week who would thn be given the bad news.... But people would have to be pretty awful to be chopped for lack of flying skill on the Bulldog. (Of course if they could tell their ar$e from their elbows, they could always join as a navigator
) And that was before this streaming nonsense started!
Wholigan
Apparently the EFT element of UAS flying started around 7 years ago. The undergrads started doing the same course as the DE around 2 years ago.
And I hope that your quip about your not being a QFI was not a jibe. For us who came late to "trimming" it is a matter of pride you know ...
Apparently the EFT element of UAS flying started around 7 years ago. The undergrads started doing the same course as the DE around 2 years ago.
And I hope that your quip about your not being a QFI was not a jibe. For us who came late to "trimming" it is a matter of pride you know ...
Morning, PSOs!
When did the stupid idea to 'stream' students based on their UAS flying begin? Doubtless it was introduced by someone who had no idea of the time management pressures faced by undergraduates at many universities.
If they're content with a degree in 'media studies' or similar, they can probably make sufficient progress to be marked up as having 'fast jet' potential. Whereas if they're doing Aero Eng at Impossible College and have to get to Wyton to fly.......
If the increased workload of the EFT course on undergraduates combined with the demands of their degree courses puts them under unacceptable pressure - well, it was hardly the fault of the undergraduates that such a course was introduced! To say that this then makes UAS flying non-cost effective is a facile comment; and 'access' to a mere 10 hours flying instruction per annum is hardly going to attract many folk, I would venture to suggest. If a student arrived at a UAS, as I did, already in possession of a JAR-FCL PPL, then 10 hours wouldn't even be sufficient keep it valid in its second 12 month period if revalidating by experience!
I understand that this daft new proposal was supposed to commence in September this year - is that still the case or has the whole ridiculous notion been rightly $hitcanned?
Of course as mere civilian filth it's none of my business (apart from a burning desire to see the UASs survive), but go back to unstreamed, 30:30:20 at UAS, then BFTS for all pilots on the Tucano after IOT, I say! It worked well for about 30 years......
When did the stupid idea to 'stream' students based on their UAS flying begin? Doubtless it was introduced by someone who had no idea of the time management pressures faced by undergraduates at many universities.
If they're content with a degree in 'media studies' or similar, they can probably make sufficient progress to be marked up as having 'fast jet' potential. Whereas if they're doing Aero Eng at Impossible College and have to get to Wyton to fly.......
If the increased workload of the EFT course on undergraduates combined with the demands of their degree courses puts them under unacceptable pressure - well, it was hardly the fault of the undergraduates that such a course was introduced! To say that this then makes UAS flying non-cost effective is a facile comment; and 'access' to a mere 10 hours flying instruction per annum is hardly going to attract many folk, I would venture to suggest. If a student arrived at a UAS, as I did, already in possession of a JAR-FCL PPL, then 10 hours wouldn't even be sufficient keep it valid in its second 12 month period if revalidating by experience!
I understand that this daft new proposal was supposed to commence in September this year - is that still the case or has the whole ridiculous notion been rightly $hitcanned?
Of course as mere civilian filth it's none of my business (apart from a burning desire to see the UASs survive), but go back to unstreamed, 30:30:20 at UAS, then BFTS for all pilots on the Tucano after IOT, I say! It worked well for about 30 years......
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Apparently the EFT element of UAS flying started around 7 years ago. The undergrads started doing the same course as the DE around 2 years ago.
Certainly in 1997 the final year chaps and chapesses had been doing EFT for long enough to finish it.
Pontius N:
I really must take issue. I was a contemporary of BEagle on the same UAS, when a RAFVR Cadet Pilot. (BEagle was an esteemed and well funded Cadetship chap!) Of my RAFVR colleagues around that time, nearly all of us ended up in professional flying, either BA or the RAF, and one became a very well known aviation Barrister. Of the whole intake, the attrition rate through the flying training system was, so far as I remember, quite minimal. Subsequently several of our number went on to be succesful operational pilots, QFIs, QHIS, QWIs etc and 3 of us graduated as tps. There were even a few 'Career Officers' that did rather well. I would not have been recruited to the RAF if it wasn't for UAS (though some might say that would have been a good thing!)
Glorified flying club? Amateurs? No training value? Sorry, not in our day; and having seen the pressures on my son when he was on a UAS more recently, things didn't change.
Incidentally, having been involved in BFTS/AFTS and conversion training now for 25 years inside and outwith the military, I heartily endorse BEagle's views on streaming, or the lack of it, on UAS. I went through UAS and 160 hours of JP flying before I was streamed and the benefit of that experience when hitting the Front Line has to be incalculable, particularly when the further through training the higher the costs.
I really must take issue. I was a contemporary of BEagle on the same UAS, when a RAFVR Cadet Pilot. (BEagle was an esteemed and well funded Cadetship chap!) Of my RAFVR colleagues around that time, nearly all of us ended up in professional flying, either BA or the RAF, and one became a very well known aviation Barrister. Of the whole intake, the attrition rate through the flying training system was, so far as I remember, quite minimal. Subsequently several of our number went on to be succesful operational pilots, QFIs, QHIS, QWIs etc and 3 of us graduated as tps. There were even a few 'Career Officers' that did rather well. I would not have been recruited to the RAF if it wasn't for UAS (though some might say that would have been a good thing!)
Glorified flying club? Amateurs? No training value? Sorry, not in our day; and having seen the pressures on my son when he was on a UAS more recently, things didn't change.
Incidentally, having been involved in BFTS/AFTS and conversion training now for 25 years inside and outwith the military, I heartily endorse BEagle's views on streaming, or the lack of it, on UAS. I went through UAS and 160 hours of JP flying before I was streamed and the benefit of that experience when hitting the Front Line has to be incalculable, particularly when the further through training the higher the costs.
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McDuff -
Nope - not a jibe as such. However, the fact that I'm not a QFI (but I am or have been a PAI, TI, IRE, CIRE, FWI, IP,QWI on 3 different aircraft) means that I lose my job when the new system comes in!!
Fun eh?
And I hope that your quip about your not being a QFI was not a jibe.
Fun eh?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Beags guessed wrong. I managed to evade Nav School, other than frequent refreshers, until the late 80s. The sorry tale I relate refers to about 1990 as FIP was being phased out. My lot all got it until 4 got wiped out.
A whisper reached me to the effect that some UASs have already lost their QFIs in anticipation of the stillborn announcement..
The change of emphasis in the UAS scheme being proposed is alleged to free more time for Force Development, Leadership and Personal Development Training (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) with, allegedly, 'obvious benefits for both the RAF and wider society'
Bollocks.
How will that encourage anyone to join the RAF?
Catch 'em young - or lose 'em forever.
The change of emphasis in the UAS scheme being proposed is alleged to free more time for Force Development, Leadership and Personal Development Training (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) with, allegedly, 'obvious benefits for both the RAF and wider society'
Bollocks.
How will that encourage anyone to join the RAF?
Catch 'em young - or lose 'em forever.
Wholigan
Bad luck old bean :-(. And I didn't know that you had *all* those letters after your name. I am not sure that I will have a job when the sky cracks as I have only until Oct 06 for a contract.
But, I am looking at other avenues ...
Thanks Elmlea, I stand corrected.
Bad luck old bean :-(. And I didn't know that you had *all* those letters after your name. I am not sure that I will have a job when the sky cracks as I have only until Oct 06 for a contract.
But, I am looking at other avenues ...
Nope - not a jibe as such. However, the fact that I'm not a QFI (but I am or have been a PAI, TI, IRE, CIRE, FWI, IP,QWI on 3 different aircraft) means that I lose my job when the new system comes in!!
Fun eh?
Fun eh?
I started around 8 years ago, and the EFT stuff was well integrated by then. It must have been in the first half of the 1990s that they started it all up.
Certainly in 1997 the final year chaps and chapesses had been doing EFT for long enough to finish it.
Certainly in 1997 the final year chaps and chapesses had been doing EFT for long enough to finish it.
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The f-ing stupid steaming at UAS started when we got back from Summer Camp in 1995.
All the paperwork was waiting for us in a load boxes on our return -the boss was fuming and the qfis quipped
" what a load of bolleaux!"
Still true!
All the paperwork was waiting for us in a load boxes on our return -the boss was fuming and the qfis quipped
" what a load of bolleaux!"
Still true!
Plus they can't even manage to arrange Summer Camps anymore...... Partly because the imploding Air Force is too small, but no doubt also because some beancounter decided that they were too expensive.
Anyone who ever served as a UAS QFI back then knew that it was only during Summer Camp that the First Years started to work as a team rather than as a collection of individuals.
I gather that change of command and recruitment of UAS members under the new process was intended to commence in September 05. That's only a couple of weeks away now; has the absurd notion that 'access' to a mere 10 hours flying training per year will 'nurture recruitment' to the intended University Grunt Squadrons been challenged successfully?
Anyone who ever served as a UAS QFI back then knew that it was only during Summer Camp that the First Years started to work as a team rather than as a collection of individuals.
I gather that change of command and recruitment of UAS members under the new process was intended to commence in September 05. That's only a couple of weeks away now; has the absurd notion that 'access' to a mere 10 hours flying training per year will 'nurture recruitment' to the intended University Grunt Squadrons been challenged successfully?
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Is there anymore news yet on the status of the UAS's? I have looked around on various websites but this thread still seems to be the most up to date. With the University terms drawing ever closer and only 2 weeks away at some Universities, surely if there were any concrete changes then they would have been announced already? Will the UAS's just carry on the same as last year for the time being?
Any reaction would be appreciated
Any reaction would be appreciated
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Uas
Hi,
I'm going to be applying to St Andrew's University Air Squadron in a few weeks and was wondering if anyone has experience of being in one of the University Squadrons and could give me some advice on how to succeed with the application process.
Thanks,
Matthew
I'm going to be applying to St Andrew's University Air Squadron in a few weeks and was wondering if anyone has experience of being in one of the University Squadrons and could give me some advice on how to succeed with the application process.
Thanks,
Matthew
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Rumour has it on the street that the changes to the UAS system will allow all members to do some flying.
I have heard (on fairly good authority) that on the flying side of things, it will become more like AEF flying, with 10 hours a year being allocated to both groundies and pilots alike, with the intention to get most people to first solo. But the present EFT syyllabus (sp?) will not be followed by UAS studes. Which is both good and bad. It is difficult trying to juggle EFT with a degree, and the lack of continuity in flying generally results in worse marks than DE pilots. - Meaning you might not get streamed the way you want to go. But as i have done nearly 60 hours in 18 months, the 10 hours a year will be a significant cutback - but will allow me to concentrate more on my final year at uni.
So whether or not you get in as pilot or groundie, the allocated flying hours will be the same. - Good luck in the interview, just don't be intimidated by the questions that they ask.
I have heard (on fairly good authority) that on the flying side of things, it will become more like AEF flying, with 10 hours a year being allocated to both groundies and pilots alike, with the intention to get most people to first solo. But the present EFT syyllabus (sp?) will not be followed by UAS studes. Which is both good and bad. It is difficult trying to juggle EFT with a degree, and the lack of continuity in flying generally results in worse marks than DE pilots. - Meaning you might not get streamed the way you want to go. But as i have done nearly 60 hours in 18 months, the 10 hours a year will be a significant cutback - but will allow me to concentrate more on my final year at uni.
So whether or not you get in as pilot or groundie, the allocated flying hours will be the same. - Good luck in the interview, just don't be intimidated by the questions that they ask.
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I can't speak for what EMUAS is like as I'm from the premier UAS
On a more serious note, as I understand it the new system will provide for some flying for *all* members (none of this Pilot/Ground Branch divide), but is likely to be without syllabus. I can see it being a set amount, to be flown during Uni holidays, since there's little continuity anyway, let alone if you're restricted to 10hrs or so spread throughout a year. In which case, have The Powers That Be thought how this will mean the world and his wife, dog and three kids all trying to fly during eight weeks in the summer -- UAS summer flying, AEF summer camps and the new DE flights desperately scrambling to get their studes through in good weather as currently happens -- with the subsequent ramp in activity? Or how badly a few weeks of bad weather could put back *all* the flying activity that summer (cf. the Tutor grounding last summer)?
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Good luck in the interview, just don't be intimidated by the questions that they ask.
Cheers for the help
