UAS 's to close (Merged)
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UAS 's to close
Have just heard on the grapevine that due to financial constraints all flying activities on all UAS's are being recommended to cease. Apparently, two "SUPER" flying units would likely be formed- one at Wyton and the other likely to be at Leeming!!! It appears that UAS's would become only ground based clubs--well thats likely to attract the next generation !!
Can only mention my exasperation at a decision like this, particularly since we have just binned EFT!
Can only mention my exasperation at a decision like this, particularly since we have just binned EFT!
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I know that they are discussing the future of the UAS's at the moment...and IIRC March is the announcement date of any changes that are going to be made.
2 Super UAS's...that's a bit absurd! Would Wyton and Leeming be able to support ALL the tutors? Chaos is the only word that springs to mind.
All I can say is that it's along way for the Scottish studes to travel!
2 Super UAS's...that's a bit absurd! Would Wyton and Leeming be able to support ALL the tutors? Chaos is the only word that springs to mind.
All I can say is that it's along way for the Scottish studes to travel!
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Knowing the yoof of today, I can't see many of them being ar*sed to travel any great distance to fly - everything has to be laid on a plate for them these days. I watch the outcome of the 'March announcement' with interest...
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About time somebody reviewed the use and therefore the future of the UAS (and with it no doubt the AEF) system. I have believed for some time now that both are obsolete and should be withdrawn.
The argument that the UAS system is a valuable recruiting tool is specious to say the least; at no point do any of the armed forces need to actively recruit for aircrew. As you all are no doubt consumately aware, there is a seemingly endless queue of budding tyro's all eager for a stab at flying some military hardware. The UAS system does nothing but provide a cheap drinking club to students and a social life outside of the university campus at the expense of the tax payer. In my time I have encountered plenty of UAS Cadets both ex and current, and pretty much to a man they all agreed that the UAS was a damn good laugh but taught them nothing of the proper RAF and had no effect what so ever on their decision to join the Service. In fact most joined because they had to as it was part of their cadetship/Bursary Terms. Those that were not in the pay of Aunty Betty that wished to join, were already mad keen on the RAF and were looking to join eventually anyway.
Likewise the ACO have a no need to have access to expensive to operate aeroplanes to provide a 30 minute AEF to cadets. The VGS system already does this and what with the Grob 109 Vigilent, there is plenty of opportunity for powered flight, albeit in a benign regime. But then who said aero's should be part of an AEF profile? The ACO is a cracking organisationthat provides plenty of activities, flying being but just one element. From personal experience, I am amazed at actually how few cadets want to go flying and it would not be an untruth to say that I have seen occasions where ATC Sqns routinely fail to fill their flying/gliding quota.
The concept of the UAS as Trenchard saw it has long since been diluted to a shadow of it's former ideal and sadly in the context of a shrinking modern RAF and tighter budgets should be wound up forthwith.
I am aware that these views will be looked upon unfavourably by many, but then that's what I believe and I feel that if the RAF wishes to remain competitive then clearly a few sacred cows will have to be slaughtered.
What say you gentlemen?
Anyway, Battle bowler on and ducking below the parapit for cover.
The argument that the UAS system is a valuable recruiting tool is specious to say the least; at no point do any of the armed forces need to actively recruit for aircrew. As you all are no doubt consumately aware, there is a seemingly endless queue of budding tyro's all eager for a stab at flying some military hardware. The UAS system does nothing but provide a cheap drinking club to students and a social life outside of the university campus at the expense of the tax payer. In my time I have encountered plenty of UAS Cadets both ex and current, and pretty much to a man they all agreed that the UAS was a damn good laugh but taught them nothing of the proper RAF and had no effect what so ever on their decision to join the Service. In fact most joined because they had to as it was part of their cadetship/Bursary Terms. Those that were not in the pay of Aunty Betty that wished to join, were already mad keen on the RAF and were looking to join eventually anyway.
Likewise the ACO have a no need to have access to expensive to operate aeroplanes to provide a 30 minute AEF to cadets. The VGS system already does this and what with the Grob 109 Vigilent, there is plenty of opportunity for powered flight, albeit in a benign regime. But then who said aero's should be part of an AEF profile? The ACO is a cracking organisationthat provides plenty of activities, flying being but just one element. From personal experience, I am amazed at actually how few cadets want to go flying and it would not be an untruth to say that I have seen occasions where ATC Sqns routinely fail to fill their flying/gliding quota.
The concept of the UAS as Trenchard saw it has long since been diluted to a shadow of it's former ideal and sadly in the context of a shrinking modern RAF and tighter budgets should be wound up forthwith.
I am aware that these views will be looked upon unfavourably by many, but then that's what I believe and I feel that if the RAF wishes to remain competitive then clearly a few sacred cows will have to be slaughtered.
What say you gentlemen?
Anyway, Battle bowler on and ducking below the parapit for cover.
Just another sad example of the impoverished Rental Air Farce of today selling off the family silver.... Except that it can't even afford to own and operate its own plastic lightplanes these days.
And it's 'parapet', by the way.
God help the RAF once airline recruiting picks up and they're forced to compete for pilot applicants!
And it's 'parapet', by the way.
God help the RAF once airline recruiting picks up and they're forced to compete for pilot applicants!
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From the ACO point of view one sad consequence of the loss of AEF would be that cadets would almost never venture onto stations (except for annual camps). Perhaps the rest of you might think that was a good thing... but it is one of the main things that marks RAF cadets out from the Army/Navy cadets - the latter rarely encounter the 'real' forces at all (even watching helicopters at Benson from the safety of the AEF squiffers' room is better than never seeing them at all). We are lucky - we get 8 or so AEF slots per year and 6AEF is exceedingly helpful - and it's a major recruiting tool for us.
Tim
(VR(T), despised minority)
Tim
(VR(T), despised minority)
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DK
The RN very definately does need to recruit more than it is currently getting. The more you get applying, the more you can pick and choose the cream. It was explained to me that, whilst there has been lowering of the pass mark recently, nowadays they have to accept the pass mark, rather than select from the vast pool who are well above the mark as in previous times. You will still get your stars, but you will get some dross too.
The RN very definately does need to recruit more than it is currently getting. The more you get applying, the more you can pick and choose the cream. It was explained to me that, whilst there has been lowering of the pass mark recently, nowadays they have to accept the pass mark, rather than select from the vast pool who are well above the mark as in previous times. You will still get your stars, but you will get some dross too.
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The argument that the UAS system is a valuable recruiting tool is specious to say the least; at no point do any of the armed forces need to actively recruit for aircrew. As you all are no doubt consumately aware, there is a seemingly endless queue of budding tyros all eager for a stab at flying some military hardware.
The more you get applying, the more you can pick and choose the cream.
Scaling back or eliminating active recruiting efforts may mean that a few high-calibre people never apply, but that is certainly much preferable to the consequences of other cost-cutting measures that could be adopted instead. Defence cuts are a reality and have to be managed rather than ignored; to my mind, that means putting the remaining money at the sharp end, above all else.
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A big advantage of removing the opportunity to fly from the doorsteps of UAS students is that one will then be able to see who is motivated enough to travel to the flying venue.
During my time I have seen many ex-UAS who drifted into the RAF without the right motivation, stayed for the minimum time and then left. During their time they gave little and cost the earth.
Having spent some time teaching air cadets to glide I could have picked much better aircrew prospects than those UAS wasters.
During my time I have seen many ex-UAS who drifted into the RAF without the right motivation, stayed for the minimum time and then left. During their time they gave little and cost the earth.
Having spent some time teaching air cadets to glide I could have picked much better aircrew prospects than those UAS wasters.
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Its all very well harping on about how we all used to be more motivated, but perhaps that's because there was a lot more motivating aimed at youngsters being done by the military and others, eg airshows (not the tedious safe margarine versions we get today) war films, comic books, plus a far more glamorous image all round. Plus, it simply was a far better deal in the past. In todays paperwork pushing military, is it any surprise that people are not so interestedand have to be coaxed a little more.
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Guess I'm one of those UAS wasters. Would never have thought about joining the RAF had I not strolled over to the UAS recruiting stand at freshers week. Been flying FJ ever since and absolutely loving it.
Guess I'm one of those UAS wasters. Would never have thought about joining the RAF had I not strolled over to the UAS recruiting stand at freshers week. Been flying FJ ever since and absolutely loving it.
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How many airlines get a chance to look at the candidates for three years, and then pick the best for full time recruitment?
Anyway, I met loads of dead-fit totty through the UAS.
Anyway, I met loads of dead-fit totty through the UAS.
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Who said the ATC was used to recruit people into the services? Take the blinkers off and look what it does along with the army, navy, police, scouts etc etc. Kids are not hanging around street corners getting into bother. They are taught a little bit of discipline and self pride. At Cosford where I fly AEF, the kids ARE enthusiastic. I still get a buzz when a flight is over and the kids are delighted. Do not underestimate the value of youth organisations, I flew in a chipmunk in 1976 at Leeming and decided there and then that the RAF was for me!! 7 years as a technician and 17 years as a pilot sees me deciding to give the same opportunities to the kids from similar backgrounds.
The loss of AEF could be another small nail hammered into the coffin of our society if it stops ATC recruiting, thousands more yobbos on the streets..... Great!!
The loss of AEF could be another small nail hammered into the coffin of our society if it stops ATC recruiting, thousands more yobbos on the streets..... Great!!
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I'm with jayteeo on this. The cadets who I am privilidged to share a cockpit with are enthusiastic and very appreciative. Most of them will do anything to get airborne. Can't see the AEFs going, without them the ATC would descend into a youth club and the push from the big wheels is quite the opposite.
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I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that current or former UAS students are in any way bad people, or that the UAS system is a complete waste of time and money.
I myself was a sea cadet, and most likely would never have joined the navy except for that experience. And although the great majority of my fellow cadets never signed up, they probably got a lot out of the program, which presumably contributed to their development as productive citizens.
All I meant to say is that so long as there is a shrinking defence budgets, cuts will have to be made. And I would rather take steps like closing down the UAS than eliminating operational squadrons, disbanding regiments, or paying off warships. It's simply a matter of (reluctantly) choosing the least of many possible evils.
I myself was a sea cadet, and most likely would never have joined the navy except for that experience. And although the great majority of my fellow cadets never signed up, they probably got a lot out of the program, which presumably contributed to their development as productive citizens.
All I meant to say is that so long as there is a shrinking defence budgets, cuts will have to be made. And I would rather take steps like closing down the UAS than eliminating operational squadrons, disbanding regiments, or paying off warships. It's simply a matter of (reluctantly) choosing the least of many possible evils.
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The Corps is constantly complaining that they never get enough flying, yet as many have pointed out they rarely full their slots. Makes you wonder...
Having been on a VGS for a number of years as a cadet instructor, I was often amazed at the number of adult staff complaining that their cadets don't get enough flying, yet the slots they bought along were as i said were often short one or two bods.
Also, for a while I have been wondering actually how much use an AEF is... the number of cadets I flew who when asked about flying experience "oh I've done 10AEF's" yet the cadets had rarely covered anything other than aeros. Yes there are some AEF pilots who do insist on teaching the standard how to fly, but so many cadets it appear just want to go upside down (why not go to Thorpe park for the weekend....).
VGS's seem to be more useful in teaching cadets to fly and even take the successful ones on further. Also, the CCF sections (vast majoritory) seem to be flying a lot more than the ACO, have met many a 13 year old CCF cadet with 15 AEFs or thereabouts under their belts!
As with venturing onto bases, many VGS's are still on active and in some cases frontline bases, so cadets wouldn't be missing out on that aspect.
I'm all for binning the AEF element, and having more VGS's to do AEF etc. (there are apparently a large number of viking airframes unused at syerston..so why not put them into use and get rid of those dam Van Gelder money eating winches!)
I'm not sure entirely what should be done about the UAS's however...I'm in it for the RAF not the social club.
Having been on a VGS for a number of years as a cadet instructor, I was often amazed at the number of adult staff complaining that their cadets don't get enough flying, yet the slots they bought along were as i said were often short one or two bods.
Also, for a while I have been wondering actually how much use an AEF is... the number of cadets I flew who when asked about flying experience "oh I've done 10AEF's" yet the cadets had rarely covered anything other than aeros. Yes there are some AEF pilots who do insist on teaching the standard how to fly, but so many cadets it appear just want to go upside down (why not go to Thorpe park for the weekend....).
VGS's seem to be more useful in teaching cadets to fly and even take the successful ones on further. Also, the CCF sections (vast majoritory) seem to be flying a lot more than the ACO, have met many a 13 year old CCF cadet with 15 AEFs or thereabouts under their belts!
As with venturing onto bases, many VGS's are still on active and in some cases frontline bases, so cadets wouldn't be missing out on that aspect.
I'm all for binning the AEF element, and having more VGS's to do AEF etc. (there are apparently a large number of viking airframes unused at syerston..so why not put them into use and get rid of those dam Van Gelder money eating winches!)
I'm not sure entirely what should be done about the UAS's however...I'm in it for the RAF not the social club.