UAS 's to close (Merged)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
the number of characters added was to get round the short message limit which is counter productive as it only adds more!
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I take it this means that all bursars do EFT after IOT (seeing as though "EFT will be moved elsewhere"), therefore losing time on the font line? Surely guys on SSC's will only be seeing a limited time of front line service - extended IOT, EFT post IOT, holds etc.... How is this cost effective?
Most graduates are going to be pretty old by the time they finish training! With current morale they're surely going to grab an airline at the first opportunity?!
I know for a fact that a lot of guys (especially ground branch - ironic that they're trying to focus more on them) are probably going to leave the UAS for the OTC - and why not?? Get paid more, and are obviously more active ground training wise.
Most graduates are going to be pretty old by the time they finish training! With current morale they're surely going to grab an airline at the first opportunity?!
I know for a fact that a lot of guys (especially ground branch - ironic that they're trying to focus more on them) are probably going to leave the UAS for the OTC - and why not?? Get paid more, and are obviously more active ground training wise.
"I take it this means that all bursars do EFT after IOT (seeing as though "EFT will be moved elsewhere"), therefore losing time on the font line? Surely guys on SSC's will only be seeing a limited time of front line service - extended IOT, EFT post IOT, holds etc.... How is this cost effective?"
Well I suppose you could reduce the holds somehow and thereby make the system more efficient. But hang on a moment: would that not make EFT on UASs more cost-effective in that you are not losing so much proficiency waiting for your next course?
cb
Well I suppose you could reduce the holds somehow and thereby make the system more efficient. But hang on a moment: would that not make EFT on UASs more cost-effective in that you are not losing so much proficiency waiting for your next course?
cb
Surely EFT on a UAS is more cost effective as you don't have to provide salaries for the students?
They might have some thought that EFT will now take the place of an immediate post-IOT hold during which you'd be paying them anyway, but I'm sure that adding an extra course won't decrease holds...
The idea of "EFT-for-all" after IOT seems alright; there's always been comments about disparity between JEFTS and UAS during my time through training, with syllabi not matching, worries about report writing etc etc. It's just a shame that UASs have to die completely to provide this. I'm sure the die-hard wannabes will still troop to substandard UASs, but I'm sure there're a lot of guys in the RAF now only there due to the deals the UAS offered them.
They might have some thought that EFT will now take the place of an immediate post-IOT hold during which you'd be paying them anyway, but I'm sure that adding an extra course won't decrease holds...
The idea of "EFT-for-all" after IOT seems alright; there's always been comments about disparity between JEFTS and UAS during my time through training, with syllabi not matching, worries about report writing etc etc. It's just a shame that UASs have to die completely to provide this. I'm sure the die-hard wannabes will still troop to substandard UASs, but I'm sure there're a lot of guys in the RAF now only there due to the deals the UAS offered them.
I don't subscribe to the idea that UASs will die 5F6B; the system seems merely to be reverting to occasional flying. I don't believe that we will lose many unless we make a mess of the organisation.
But it is entirely possible to do that now (for instance through poor leadership, indifferent reporting standards or an unattractive ground-branch activity timetable) and therefore to lose members. It would be invidious to provide any examples ...
But it is entirely possible to do that now (for instance through poor leadership, indifferent reporting standards or an unattractive ground-branch activity timetable) and therefore to lose members. It would be invidious to provide any examples ...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
UAS used to focus on aircrew. We need more non-aircrew than aircrew ergo the focus was wrong.
Not only that but it is better, cheaper and more productive to catchem before they go to uni.
Not only that but it is better, cheaper and more productive to catchem before they go to uni.
PN - that might have a modicum of sense were it not for the abysmally low educational standards of our schools these days. Where once a secondary education was a known quality, even a tertiary education is nowadays sometimes rather questionable....
Restore the pre-1996 UAS scheme and all would be fine....
But this rumoured new scheme will simply aim people at the Army, Navy or airlines....
Unless someone with half a brain cell $hitcans it, of course.
Restore the pre-1996 UAS scheme and all would be fine....
But this rumoured new scheme will simply aim people at the Army, Navy or airlines....
Unless someone with half a brain cell $hitcans it, of course.
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I can highly recommend it there is so much to do and never a dull moment.
I can't speak for what EMUAS is like as I'm from the premier UAS
Good luck!
PS, if you are super keen, it may be worth contacting the Sqn before Freshers to get some info.
I can't speak for what EMUAS is like as I'm from the premier UAS
Good luck!
PS, if you are super keen, it may be worth contacting the Sqn before Freshers to get some info.
Well, no EFT at UAS and just 10 hours 'voluntary' flying per year? The rest of the time being spent on 'Force Development/Leadership and Personal Development' eh?
That should get them flocking to join.....the OTC. If they want to do such things properly and get paid rather better!
If what I've had sight of should ever come about, perish the thought, it'd be more cost effective to shut up shop altogether and to send people to flying clubs to get 30 hours' training.
I see BA's shares are up today. Did you know that they've been recruiting people from places like Oxford and Jerez who haven't even completed their CPL/IR courses yet!
Is there no-one sufficiently testiculated to be able to put a stop to this stupid idea to dumb down UAS flying training? Or will they all roll over on what is tantamount to wanton destruction of our heritage?
That should get them flocking to join.....the OTC. If they want to do such things properly and get paid rather better!
If what I've had sight of should ever come about, perish the thought, it'd be more cost effective to shut up shop altogether and to send people to flying clubs to get 30 hours' training.
I see BA's shares are up today. Did you know that they've been recruiting people from places like Oxford and Jerez who haven't even completed their CPL/IR courses yet!
Is there no-one sufficiently testiculated to be able to put a stop to this stupid idea to dumb down UAS flying training? Or will they all roll over on what is tantamount to wanton destruction of our heritage?
Last edited by BEagle; 2nd Aug 2005 at 16:41.
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Beags
They won't join the OTC - if they have any sense they'll join the RNR/TA/RAuxF - as they can't be mobilised before they graduate (by which time they've got their BRNC/Sandhurst/Cranditz offer and left), and the experience they get is far better, plus they get good day rates, annual camp, courses etc.
If I had my time again that's what I'd do, anyway.
They won't join the OTC - if they have any sense they'll join the RNR/TA/RAuxF - as they can't be mobilised before they graduate (by which time they've got their BRNC/Sandhurst/Cranditz offer and left), and the experience they get is far better, plus they get good day rates, annual camp, courses etc.
If I had my time again that's what I'd do, anyway.
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I don't know if the 'Terriers' etc can be forced to deploy before they graduate, but I heard of one such fellow (from Exeter I think) sat his finals in Iraq! He was, I believe, in the OTC but with a TA commission.
Much of the benefit of the old UAS system to students was being able to talk to experienced pilots and learn about what they had done on their previous tours. We had people who'd flown V-bombers, Canberras, Belvederes, Seafires.....all had interesting stories to recount. Many of my colleagues who wouldn't otherwise have thought about joining the RAF only did so after meeting such people during their flying training on Chipmunks. It was also the reward of flying training which kept many of us going at University; double thermodynamics on Friday mornings somehow didn't seem quite so bad when you knew that you'd be off to the aerodrome for the weekend a few hours later.....
This sort of life carried on at UASs for the next 23 years; the Chipmunk went and the Bulldog came in. The syllabus changed slightly, but it was still the goal of all students to gain their PIFG and later their PFBs...
Then some utter ar$e decided to meddle with the system and introduced the ludicrous notion of 'streaming' students for BFT depending on their success at UAS. Complete and utter nonsense - and everyone on any UAS knew it. But still it went on... How do you combine a degree in something like Aero Eng with the demands of sufficient currency to progress satisfactorily at UAS whilst trying to pay off a student loan? Impossible.
Then 'they' decided that they couldn't even afford a few lightplanes of their own, and the Rental Air Farce started using Das Teutor with all its civil register limitations. Unbelievable. But still the students are a well-motivated bunch enjoying excellent flying training, albeit much of it conducted by rather ancient FTRS officers.
But what of the future? Would anyone really be sufficiently motivated to join the RAF after running around playing pine pole games and listening to boring Air Power lectures for 3 years in their few hours of spare time? With a mere 10 hours of flying per annum? I very much doubt it. Not when there are better alternatives around to attract quality people from universities. Even 90-ish hours seemed mean, 30 is an utter joke.
In the 'traditional' UAS era, we'd just have finished July's Summer Camp at an operational RAF station. But even that is beyond the reach of the RAF of today; those few operational stations left have insufficient accommodation and the beancounters won't stump up for anything else.
I sincerely hope that the questions raised by Sir Tim Garden in Parliament will have positive effect and that the current threat to the UAS system is consigned to the rubbish bin of history where it rightly belongs.
This sort of life carried on at UASs for the next 23 years; the Chipmunk went and the Bulldog came in. The syllabus changed slightly, but it was still the goal of all students to gain their PIFG and later their PFBs...
Then some utter ar$e decided to meddle with the system and introduced the ludicrous notion of 'streaming' students for BFT depending on their success at UAS. Complete and utter nonsense - and everyone on any UAS knew it. But still it went on... How do you combine a degree in something like Aero Eng with the demands of sufficient currency to progress satisfactorily at UAS whilst trying to pay off a student loan? Impossible.
Then 'they' decided that they couldn't even afford a few lightplanes of their own, and the Rental Air Farce started using Das Teutor with all its civil register limitations. Unbelievable. But still the students are a well-motivated bunch enjoying excellent flying training, albeit much of it conducted by rather ancient FTRS officers.
But what of the future? Would anyone really be sufficiently motivated to join the RAF after running around playing pine pole games and listening to boring Air Power lectures for 3 years in their few hours of spare time? With a mere 10 hours of flying per annum? I very much doubt it. Not when there are better alternatives around to attract quality people from universities. Even 90-ish hours seemed mean, 30 is an utter joke.
In the 'traditional' UAS era, we'd just have finished July's Summer Camp at an operational RAF station. But even that is beyond the reach of the RAF of today; those few operational stations left have insufficient accommodation and the beancounters won't stump up for anything else.
I sincerely hope that the questions raised by Sir Tim Garden in Parliament will have positive effect and that the current threat to the UAS system is consigned to the rubbish bin of history where it rightly belongs.
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In the 'traditional' UAS era, we'd just have finished July's Summer Camp at an operational RAF station. But even that is beyond the reach of the RAF of today; those few operational stations left have insufficient accommodation and the beancounters won't stump up for anything else.
Tim
BEags,
Your last post broughtback happy memories of three UAS Summer Camps - Thorney Island, Lindholme and Coltishall (Chipmunks flying out of Norwich Airport - formerly RAF Hoshan St Faith).
Your last post broughtback happy memories of three UAS Summer Camps - Thorney Island, Lindholme and Coltishall (Chipmunks flying out of Norwich Airport - formerly RAF Hoshan St Faith).
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Summer Camps at Leeming, St Mawgan as a stude - top stuff! Then, Laarbruch, St Mawgan (twice) as a QFI - magic times indeed.
Beags - I am with you on this one and am wishing that 'them with egg on their hats' stop screwing around with our heritage and return UASs to something approaching their former glory. If the RAF does not compete for the 'top guns' at uni, we will lose them to the airlines and the aforementioned seniors will have egg on their faces!
Maybe you should bid for doing the RAF's UAS Summer Camps for them. Buy/lease some Chippies, 'Dogs or similar. There must be a whole host of good guys who'd do a week or 2 for you - meanwhile, we could be on 'perpetual camp'. All the studes would get the benefit of proper fg trg as well as the 'old and bold' stories. Their airships certainly seem not to care very much about the 'ethos' the UASs help generate - so think how much they could save by binning the whole UAS system?
Beags - I am with you on this one and am wishing that 'them with egg on their hats' stop screwing around with our heritage and return UASs to something approaching their former glory. If the RAF does not compete for the 'top guns' at uni, we will lose them to the airlines and the aforementioned seniors will have egg on their faces!
Maybe you should bid for doing the RAF's UAS Summer Camps for them. Buy/lease some Chippies, 'Dogs or similar. There must be a whole host of good guys who'd do a week or 2 for you - meanwhile, we could be on 'perpetual camp'. All the studes would get the benefit of proper fg trg as well as the 'old and bold' stories. Their airships certainly seem not to care very much about the 'ethos' the UASs help generate - so think how much they could save by binning the whole UAS system?