UAS 's to close (Merged)
One of the more important aspects of the UAS has nothing to do with student recruitment but how about Instructor retention? It's one of the few 'flying' jobs where you can be sure of having 2 days off a week with some form of stability -
but hey oh, guess I'll get that hammer from the wall, you know, the one without the claw attachment, and take up coffin making as a living - it's quite lucrative in the Armed Forces.
but hey oh, guess I'll get that hammer from the wall, you know, the one without the claw attachment, and take up coffin making as a living - it's quite lucrative in the Armed Forces.
Not just instructor retention, but sound instructor development as well.
The cost of everything, but the value of nothing, as Oscar Wilde once said....
The cost of everything, but the value of nothing, as Oscar Wilde once said....
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^Up we go^ 
It's gone a bit quiet on the romour front lately, I'm assuming nothing has changed?
Here's a question for you all, as a student doing Aerospace Engineering at University, I am obviously staying tuned to this thread regarding the future (whether there will be any UAS's to join by October for example!)
However, most UAS students were civvies and then join the UAS and then become part of the RAF VR. All well and good. However, how do things stand if that individual is a student, but already commissioned into the RAF VR(T)? Would it be possible to join the UAS? Or would that be a bar to entry?
It's gone a bit quiet on the romour front lately, I'm assuming nothing has changed?
Here's a question for you all, as a student doing Aerospace Engineering at University, I am obviously staying tuned to this thread regarding the future (whether there will be any UAS's to join by October for example!
)However, most UAS students were civvies and then join the UAS and then become part of the RAF VR. All well and good. However, how do things stand if that individual is a student, but already commissioned into the RAF VR(T)? Would it be possible to join the UAS? Or would that be a bar to entry?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Between a Rock and a Hard Place
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I understand it, such a situation would be seen as a conflict of interest and although it would not bar your from entry you would probably be asked to make a choice between the UAS and the Air Cadet Organisation.
The UAS would be looking for you to give a high level of commitment to them and for you to get as much continuity in your flying as possible. Dashing off to work with Air Cadets instead of progressing with your flying training would not go down too well. I think you would find the UAS would be more inclined to give the slot to someone who was prepared to commit totally to the UAS rather than someone who perhaps would not.
I'm not sure where you would stand regarding holding a commission with the RAFVR (T) and being a non-commissioned airman (with status of Officer Cadet) in the RAFVR (UAS). I certainly know of an VR (T) officer that joined the R Aux AF as an airman and was required to resign his commision. I suspect (as common sense would dictate) that it would not be allowed as a conflict of interest could exist.
Just my £0.02 and I may be "out of date" with my info!
The UAS would be looking for you to give a high level of commitment to them and for you to get as much continuity in your flying as possible. Dashing off to work with Air Cadets instead of progressing with your flying training would not go down too well. I think you would find the UAS would be more inclined to give the slot to someone who was prepared to commit totally to the UAS rather than someone who perhaps would not.
I'm not sure where you would stand regarding holding a commission with the RAFVR (T) and being a non-commissioned airman (with status of Officer Cadet) in the RAFVR (UAS). I certainly know of an VR (T) officer that joined the R Aux AF as an airman and was required to resign his commision. I suspect (as common sense would dictate) that it would not be allowed as a conflict of interest could exist.
Just my £0.02 and I may be "out of date" with my info!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks!
Confirms what I thought really.....however I don't think I am elegible for UAS Pilot training (not perfect eyesight.....good for WSO tho)....so commitment to flying may be out of the window there
(Much as I'd love to)...
Be interesting to see what exactly does come of the UAS system, whether they continue with a EFT, or change to an "air experiance" style system.......obviously bound to affect the above.
Confirms what I thought really.....however I don't think I am elegible for UAS Pilot training (not perfect eyesight.....good for WSO tho)....so commitment to flying may be out of the window there
(Much as I'd love to)...Be interesting to see what exactly does come of the UAS system, whether they continue with a EFT, or change to an "air experiance" style system.......obviously bound to affect the above.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Up there somewhere
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will have to choose you can't be both and you certainly wouldn't be made an officer in the VR on a UAS because you are a VRT officer.
Dump the VRT and become a CI if you are so keen on staying in cadets.
Dump the VRT and become a CI if you are so keen on staying in cadets.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know of people that have done both, but as a CI not a VR(T). I'm a CI at the moment and although I do go to as many events as possible the ATC are quite flexible if I need time off, so I imagine it could be done with a UAS. Saying that though it really does depend on what happens with the UASs and the level of flying they will be undertaking.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ready to Depart
Age: 45
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UAS and ACO.
If you join a UAS and want to continue helping out on your ATC Squadron (or any ATC Squadron), you will have to become a Service Instructor: You cannot be a CI because you are not a civilian!
Basically if invovles an exchange of letters between respective bosses - Wing HQ will know the form, as will the station ACLO.
As a result, Air Cadets would become the equivelent of a secondary duty, and you would benefit from maintaining your status as an Officer Cadet while on Air Cadet duties (ie, the status of a junior officer, useful for messing while on camp etc!)
Basically if invovles an exchange of letters between respective bosses - Wing HQ will know the form, as will the station ACLO.
As a result, Air Cadets would become the equivelent of a secondary duty, and you would benefit from maintaining your status as an Officer Cadet while on Air Cadet duties (ie, the status of a junior officer, useful for messing while on camp etc!)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the input!
Well, with the future of the UASs being relatively unknown, and the present situation with ATC etc....I think I will continue my services to the ACO, give UAS a miss, as I am not an aircrew candidate anyway. (Plus I'd be a 2nd year student).
Always the VGSs for flying.
Well, with the future of the UASs being relatively unknown, and the present situation with ATC etc....I think I will continue my services to the ACO, give UAS a miss, as I am not an aircrew candidate anyway
. (Plus I'd be a 2nd year student).Always the VGSs for flying.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Up there somewhere
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just because you are a second year and not aircrew isn't a reason not to give it a go! All my mates who are groundies are having a whale of a time, and there are second year 1st year groundies as well. They are going on SVA's they love the atmosphere and all the activities we do plus the insight into the RAF. At least a few are now dead set on RAF careers. It's definately something to do if you are considering or want an RAF career.
Absolutely top night at the premiere University Air Squadron's 70th anniversary cockers P last night in London. Well attended by ex-members from every decade - and the current students are also exactly as UAS students have always been! Except that some are very much prettier than the studes were when I was on ULAS as a student in 1969-73!
So if any bottom-feeding beancounter should ever dare to meddle with such a system of proven excellence, they should be strung up by their rather small bits from a very high place. The RAF is very, very lucky indeed to be able to recruit such top folk if last night was anything to go by - and long may it continue to be able to do so!
Just one question. What the hell was in that purple drink of which I quaffed a few last night? One felt rathy shabby today - until after a restorative Full English at the RAF Club, followed by a blast down the motorway to see god daughter dislodged the cobwebs!
There was more than one ULAS IN THE HOUSE last night.
And Roly P, I heard an interesting story about the fiery demise of a certain musical instrument from a mutual acquaintance!
So if any bottom-feeding beancounter should ever dare to meddle with such a system of proven excellence, they should be strung up by their rather small bits from a very high place. The RAF is very, very lucky indeed to be able to recruit such top folk if last night was anything to go by - and long may it continue to be able to do so!
Just one question. What the hell was in that purple drink of which I quaffed a few last night? One felt rathy shabby today - until after a restorative Full English at the RAF Club, followed by a blast down the motorway to see god daughter dislodged the cobwebs!
There was more than one ULAS IN THE HOUSE last night.
And Roly P, I heard an interesting story about the fiery demise of a certain musical instrument from a mutual acquaintance!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I joined a UAS as well as being an instructor on a VGS. This was immediately proving to be too difficult to manage with a degree as well so I left the VGS. I enjoy my time on the UAS immensely and wouldn't reccomend anyone trying to do both. Even if your degree is only two days a week like mine, you wont put in or get out what you want from either squadron.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One thing that interests me about some of the posts on this thread is the odd 'foot in both camps' attitude. All organisations need commitment and by spreading yourself over several activities you diminish what you can provide. Anyone in a managerial position will tell you that it is immensely frustrating not to be able to effectively plan because individiuals on whom you may rely, or for whom you have made arrangements for, have decided that doing their other activity interests them more at that point in time.
I would suggest that people unsure about whether to commit either give your time to the UAS or to the ATC, but not both. I would expect that ATC units would be glad to see you back as a guest speaker from time to time but I suspect equally that the UAS would not be pleased that you couldn't attend because you were doing an ATC activity.
Ranger5's experience is interesting to hear from the other side of the fence, and just reinforces the point that there always comes a time in life that you have to make a decision and perhaps move on.
I would suggest that people unsure about whether to commit either give your time to the UAS or to the ATC, but not both. I would expect that ATC units would be glad to see you back as a guest speaker from time to time but I suspect equally that the UAS would not be pleased that you couldn't attend because you were doing an ATC activity.
Ranger5's experience is interesting to hear from the other side of the fence, and just reinforces the point that there always comes a time in life that you have to make a decision and perhaps move on.
Last edited by Green Meat; 17th Jun 2005 at 16:23.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ready to Depart
Age: 45
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GREEN MEAT,
If you're in the VR, there is no foot in both camps: Your association with the ACO is one of a "secondary duty" nature. There is no conflict - UAS always comes first.
If you're in the VR, there is no foot in both camps: Your association with the ACO is one of a "secondary duty" nature. There is no conflict - UAS always comes first.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which I think you will see was my point exactly! For the ACO, however, I understand from my sources that it can be a nuisance having people who come and go. Also, I have encountered a number of people trying to do VGS and UAS at the same time - perhaps not everyone understands the 'secondary' nature of the duty, and it would appear that Ranger5 was able to make the critical decision.