F4 Phantom
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Prof and Sad et al,
(delay in joining debate due to hols)
There was a phinal hangar bash which was a wing do rather than tiger meet.
Every fighter squadron within a 200 mile radius of Wattisham was invited to a Tactics Discussion and Procedures Update (Thinly Disguised P1** Up). 56 QWIL lead the presentations with the latest theory of whistling line astern. This was based on day 5 of the war when all SPIII and AIM-9L had been used and we were left with Golfs for a-a. So... 4 x sqns of a/c, 1 mile astern, last man whistling over R/T. Attacking fighters would be forced to ripple down the package and roll in behind tail end charlie. When the whistling stops you know the back of the package has been reached and the next takes it up. With such a long train it would take so long to reach the front that some weapons would have been released on target.
We laughed a lot. Unfortuantely, the USAF missed the humour, gave a serious presentation and then got hauled on to stage to play with the flower arrangers. I have never seen a HAS empy so quickly!
I believe 56 won the piano burning comptetition (had to be passed through a car tyre first) - but then we did use a chainsaw.
Other phinal phling mess do involved more pianos - myself and a.n. other unfortunatley picked the newly retuned one rather than the old one bought for the purpose - and also had to explain to OC bogs and drains why the tarmac outside the mess was melted and the electrics not working. No. 5s and parts of body suffered minor burns due to a mid-air collision when leaping over said piano.
Big mess bill ,but great fun - never replicated on F4-1.
(delay in joining debate due to hols)
There was a phinal hangar bash which was a wing do rather than tiger meet.
Every fighter squadron within a 200 mile radius of Wattisham was invited to a Tactics Discussion and Procedures Update (Thinly Disguised P1** Up). 56 QWIL lead the presentations with the latest theory of whistling line astern. This was based on day 5 of the war when all SPIII and AIM-9L had been used and we were left with Golfs for a-a. So... 4 x sqns of a/c, 1 mile astern, last man whistling over R/T. Attacking fighters would be forced to ripple down the package and roll in behind tail end charlie. When the whistling stops you know the back of the package has been reached and the next takes it up. With such a long train it would take so long to reach the front that some weapons would have been released on target.
We laughed a lot. Unfortuantely, the USAF missed the humour, gave a serious presentation and then got hauled on to stage to play with the flower arrangers. I have never seen a HAS empy so quickly!
I believe 56 won the piano burning comptetition (had to be passed through a car tyre first) - but then we did use a chainsaw.
Other phinal phling mess do involved more pianos - myself and a.n. other unfortunatley picked the newly retuned one rather than the old one bought for the purpose - and also had to explain to OC bogs and drains why the tarmac outside the mess was melted and the electrics not working. No. 5s and parts of body suffered minor burns due to a mid-air collision when leaping over said piano.
Big mess bill ,but great fun - never replicated on F4-1.
Hi there
As regards the brute strength of the F-4, I was told a story by an ex-USMC Sergeant, who had served on them, at land bases and afloat: the F-4 was doing night circuits at Navy Dallas when there was a loud bang and the bells and whistles came on. The pilot shut down the right-hand engine and ran through his emergency drills and made an uneventful landing. When the ground crew got to the aircraft, they were amazed to find the entire aft half of the right-hand engine gone, with a jagged hole where the afterburner used to be. Basically, everything aft of the combustion chamber was gone. Soon after, a local farmer called the base to ask if a large, battered,smoking "turbin" belonged to them. The aircraft was back on the line within a month.
As for people inadvertantly shedding the underwing loads, he also told of a Singaporean A-4 pilot, a senior man, who, whilst on detachment to the USMC, cleaned off all his racks by accident and tried to get his ground crew to fix it without the Marines copping on.
Pianos: he said that they flew well when launched off the waist catapult on the return sailing from Pacific duty.
regards
TDD
As regards the brute strength of the F-4, I was told a story by an ex-USMC Sergeant, who had served on them, at land bases and afloat: the F-4 was doing night circuits at Navy Dallas when there was a loud bang and the bells and whistles came on. The pilot shut down the right-hand engine and ran through his emergency drills and made an uneventful landing. When the ground crew got to the aircraft, they were amazed to find the entire aft half of the right-hand engine gone, with a jagged hole where the afterburner used to be. Basically, everything aft of the combustion chamber was gone. Soon after, a local farmer called the base to ask if a large, battered,smoking "turbin" belonged to them. The aircraft was back on the line within a month.
As for people inadvertantly shedding the underwing loads, he also told of a Singaporean A-4 pilot, a senior man, who, whilst on detachment to the USMC, cleaned off all his racks by accident and tried to get his ground crew to fix it without the Marines copping on.
Pianos: he said that they flew well when launched off the waist catapult on the return sailing from Pacific duty.
regards
TDD
In a place far far away...called Chu Lai in Vietnam, whilst picking my nose waiting for the engineers to correct a technical fault on my Chinook....was engaged in watching the Marines landing their F-4's. One of the chappies answered the question...."How does a Marine fighter pilot know he has landed gear up?". The poor fellow made a beautiful landing...to realize the gear was still in the wells....put both engines into Afterburner....roared off the end of the runway northbound...initiated a very slight right hand turn towards the water....made it to what would have been a nice crosswind leg....continued the right hand roll for a bit...then two nice ejections with proper landings into the South China Sea. Seeing no Rescue aircraft heading towards the swimmers...we cranked our bird and rigged our rescue hoist. Being Army pilots...never having winched over open water...surely never having winched swimmers. Before it was over...the second swimmer was waving us off....but not to be deterred....we finally got the two of them up and back on dry land.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are others who got luckier - gear up landings on the outboard wing tanks and even a touch and go on them followed by a normal gear down landing. The F4 was built like a brick outhouse but still flew like a fighter.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F4 wheels-up roller
I watched said wheels-up roller on the Fletchers from about 50 yds. Received a bolly from the WO at the time as I was supernumery officer on a practice parade - facing away towards the threshold outside Ark Royal hangar - and missed his command. Sounds similar to the USMC sequence without ejection: touched down, vapour in the tanks blew, burners lit, nozzles and r/h stab scraped before jet staggered airborne. Being towards the end of a dry Summer the 5 flame trails set fire to the South side of the airfield. Even with the remains of one tank folded up over the L/E, the answer was to drop the gear and hook, take the PUAG on the short runway and walk away from it. I hear it's a good way to get an exchange.
In another far away place... hit an albatross at about 480 kts. Put a big hole in the radome (which started to delaminate), trashed the radar, ruptured the hyds, and basically everything on the LHS stopped working. No problem with a low speed handling check and cable landing - major damage, but I bet it would have been worse in another jet.
In another far away place... hit an albatross at about 480 kts. Put a big hole in the radome (which started to delaminate), trashed the radar, ruptured the hyds, and basically everything on the LHS stopped working. No problem with a low speed handling check and cable landing - major damage, but I bet it would have been worse in another jet.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saw an F-4E after it had gone through some trees at speed. Radome was peeled open like banana skin, windshield and canopy shattered, everything below wing level surgically removed, leading edges and underside nicely polished and branches wedged in the intakes and fin. The pilot needed an escort for the landing as he couldn't see out of the front, but the engines, gear, flaps and brakes worked just fine.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone who went through OASC 5 times on GD/P applications from '85 - 92, and failed every time as I possessed good pilot aptitude but lacked Commissioning qualities, I am both in awe, and green with envy at the experiences some of you guys had during your time on this awesome machine. This thread has been a truly magnificent read.
I will forever be sad at not having had such experiences, but I'm now in the left seat of a commercial airliner so I suppose it all worked out in the end.
Anyway, respect to you all, keep it coming.
I will forever be sad at not having had such experiences, but I'm now in the left seat of a commercial airliner so I suppose it all worked out in the end.
Anyway, respect to you all, keep it coming.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PORTUGAL
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sepia tint and Sorrow
As previously mentioned, F4 life in the early 70's was a ball. A beautiful aircraft, fast cars, faster women and country pubs. Those were indeed the days.
Sometimes however, tragedy intervened, and on occasion it even brought humour in its wake- pun intended.
In '71 I shared a bachelor pad with a fellow 6Sqn colleague just outside Woodhall Spa. One winter day, he was leading a pair at low level in 2nm radar trail practising for the forthcoming night ground attack drama. Encountering white-out conditions near Carlisle, he executed the SOP escape manouevre of 30 degrees pich and full burner as winessed by the No 2 in trail. Shortly thereafter, he hit the top of Thack Moor at 550Kts wings level in a slight descent with full burner. This much I recall from the BOI which I attended since I had failed his IRT about a month previously. He passed the re-ride.
Being his "roomy", the flt cdr and I travelled up to see his parents. Their surprise at seeing us soon turned to horror as the BBC news they had just watched stated that next of kin had been informed.
It was as "effects officer" that I subsequently discovered from his personal papers that he was engaged to two girls. I knew the German one from a memorable detachment to Hopsten, but the Norwegian one came as a bit of a surprise. She turned out to be the sister-in-law of another 6Sqn pilot.
So which one did I decide in concert with the boss to invite to the full military funeral? Who would you have chosen?
As a postscript and graphic illustration that lightning can strike more than once, this tragic grieving family in short order lost another son in a road traffic accident, and then had their house severely damaged by the explosion at Flixborough chemical plant.
This has been another retro-thrill ride from Blaireau Enterprises.
Sometimes however, tragedy intervened, and on occasion it even brought humour in its wake- pun intended.
In '71 I shared a bachelor pad with a fellow 6Sqn colleague just outside Woodhall Spa. One winter day, he was leading a pair at low level in 2nm radar trail practising for the forthcoming night ground attack drama. Encountering white-out conditions near Carlisle, he executed the SOP escape manouevre of 30 degrees pich and full burner as winessed by the No 2 in trail. Shortly thereafter, he hit the top of Thack Moor at 550Kts wings level in a slight descent with full burner. This much I recall from the BOI which I attended since I had failed his IRT about a month previously. He passed the re-ride.
Being his "roomy", the flt cdr and I travelled up to see his parents. Their surprise at seeing us soon turned to horror as the BBC news they had just watched stated that next of kin had been informed.
It was as "effects officer" that I subsequently discovered from his personal papers that he was engaged to two girls. I knew the German one from a memorable detachment to Hopsten, but the Norwegian one came as a bit of a surprise. She turned out to be the sister-in-law of another 6Sqn pilot.
So which one did I decide in concert with the boss to invite to the full military funeral? Who would you have chosen?
As a postscript and graphic illustration that lightning can strike more than once, this tragic grieving family in short order lost another son in a road traffic accident, and then had their house severely damaged by the explosion at Flixborough chemical plant.
This has been another retro-thrill ride from Blaireau Enterprises.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybe - 'lack of commisioning qualities'
Having had the luck to fly F4s towards the end of its Service career I can say that most of the other chaps on the jet also lacked commisioning qualities - the trick was to hide it till you got to the Sqn. If you had any, the junta soon sorted you out!!!
Best part of my career - even if it did nothing to advance it.....
Birdstrike dit: Also managed to hit Turkey Vulture (apparently but my big black bird recce a bit poor) at 600kts and 100 ft (ish) over MPA. Bird subsequently injested, diced, fried and spat out (and served in the deathstar curry) having changed the cockpit smell from oil to fish - made a nice change! Engine performed fine after a small cough and only after we landed did we realise the damage it had caused to the radome and engine bay. The jet was Cat 3 for 3 mths whilst a team from the UK were flown out to reskin it by hand - we had proper riggers then. The gingers also made us a fetching viking helmet from the engine nacelle, complete with bird dent battle damage - last seen in 'The Goose'. Jet went back to flying but don't think it ever got back to blighty as the last jets were scrapped out there.
Fine place FI - if you didn't get caught...........
Prof A
Having had the luck to fly F4s towards the end of its Service career I can say that most of the other chaps on the jet also lacked commisioning qualities - the trick was to hide it till you got to the Sqn. If you had any, the junta soon sorted you out!!!
Best part of my career - even if it did nothing to advance it.....
Birdstrike dit: Also managed to hit Turkey Vulture (apparently but my big black bird recce a bit poor) at 600kts and 100 ft (ish) over MPA. Bird subsequently injested, diced, fried and spat out (and served in the deathstar curry) having changed the cockpit smell from oil to fish - made a nice change! Engine performed fine after a small cough and only after we landed did we realise the damage it had caused to the radome and engine bay. The jet was Cat 3 for 3 mths whilst a team from the UK were flown out to reskin it by hand - we had proper riggers then. The gingers also made us a fetching viking helmet from the engine nacelle, complete with bird dent battle damage - last seen in 'The Goose'. Jet went back to flying but don't think it ever got back to blighty as the last jets were scrapped out there.
Fine place FI - if you didn't get caught...........
Prof A
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F4 TDPU 12 NOV 2004
This is the 5th gathering of the masses.
The last 4 years have seen 100+ old Phantom Phliers at the TDPU in central London.
The format is simple... come to the pub anytime from lunchtime onwards, and leave...well, that's up to you!!
If you are interested in coming & are not already on my e-mail list ( 300+ are!) then please e-mail me back for details either via Pprune or direct to [email protected]
See you there!
Skid
The last 4 years have seen 100+ old Phantom Phliers at the TDPU in central London.
The format is simple... come to the pub anytime from lunchtime onwards, and leave...well, that's up to you!!
If you are interested in coming & are not already on my e-mail list ( 300+ are!) then please e-mail me back for details either via Pprune or direct to [email protected]
See you there!
Skid
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exmil
Yup the pilot went on exchange and the navigator took much of the blame because it was a 2-stick aircraft and thus had undercarriage indicators in the back!
Yup the pilot went on exchange and the navigator took much of the blame because it was a 2-stick aircraft and thus had undercarriage indicators in the back!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blaireau
As regards your last post, I presume you are referring to the Abbey, the Bluebell and that hotel in Woodhall Spa. Great places for the odd beer or seven and the bends in the road back to the MQs or the mess were always a problem for me. I remember Cat 5ing a certain Navs' Volvo estate after a few beers, in my Austin A55, which dates all of us......
Also remember a few weddings that went well there in the 70s.
Nothing better than driving in from the Sleaford direction and seeing a 4-ship or a pair on the break and then getting to the mess as they were taxiing past, prior to happy hour. Great days, as you said....
Also remember a few weddings that went well there in the 70s.
Nothing better than driving in from the Sleaford direction and seeing a 4-ship or a pair on the break and then getting to the mess as they were taxiing past, prior to happy hour. Great days, as you said....
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: RIDGEFIELD, WA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DUAL EXHAUST WARMING MEMORY OF F4s
For a day that went from sun to DARK SKIES and hail, this thread was enjoyable!
PHANTOMs were what inspired my heart into aviation. Regrettably, ISAHARA derailed it!
I got a special invite to an airshow at EDWARDS AFB in 70s from the THUNDERBIRDS when they used F-4Es.
And, because I did aviation photography in my free time, they brought me to the flight line to photograph #5 to prove that the paint job was faulty: it peeled off in some chunks enroute there from Nevada.
The one thing I was always curious about was the noise they made on approach: ROAR with grinding metal overtones.
Can anyone do a detail explanation?
Also, I was told, when I visited MUO and their RF-4s, that a full afterburner takeoff can use up ALL the fuel in the center and the wing tanks within 7 minutes. TRUE?
How long without using the A/Burner?
http://www.photovault.com/Link/Milit...nderbirds.html
Thanks, Alex
PS~ They kept the film, and the images I took later arent online.
I do have an image I would like to add to this post: its interesting..
Can you send me an email so I can send it to you, as I cant seem to do it myself?
[email protected]
PHANTOMs were what inspired my heart into aviation. Regrettably, ISAHARA derailed it!
I got a special invite to an airshow at EDWARDS AFB in 70s from the THUNDERBIRDS when they used F-4Es.
And, because I did aviation photography in my free time, they brought me to the flight line to photograph #5 to prove that the paint job was faulty: it peeled off in some chunks enroute there from Nevada.
The one thing I was always curious about was the noise they made on approach: ROAR with grinding metal overtones.
Can anyone do a detail explanation?
Also, I was told, when I visited MUO and their RF-4s, that a full afterburner takeoff can use up ALL the fuel in the center and the wing tanks within 7 minutes. TRUE?
How long without using the A/Burner?
http://www.photovault.com/Link/Milit...nderbirds.html
Thanks, Alex
PS~ They kept the film, and the images I took later arent online.
I do have an image I would like to add to this post: its interesting..
Can you send me an email so I can send it to you, as I cant seem to do it myself?
[email protected]
Last edited by PHANTOM PHAN; 24th Oct 2004 at 00:37.
Yup the pilot went on exchange and the navigator took much of the blame because it was a 2-stick aircraft and thus had undercarriage indicators in the back!
I remember that incident well because the Saturday morning after I was dragged in front of the BOI because it was deemed I had trained the caravan controller - (who froze)
The BOI to be fair were very good and the chap knew darn well he was speaking to someone whose only crime was to bother to fill out how many times in the log he had fired a red very when the person concerned was training.
I never did (and never will) forgive the SATCO concerned, but it did teach me that men in green suits are a breed apart, ask the green suits I worked for after that incident.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Jakarta
Age: 71
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SADBLOKE:
Sorry, I wasn't the "colonial brother" you mentioned flying tankers! Strictly an RF-4C driver ... but I was the only Yank present at the "do" I attended. 56 did, indeed, win the piano burning that night!!!
EXMIL:
Perhaps you also remember a small USAF contingent (6) from the 1st TRS at Alconbury showing for a "tete-a-tete" late '87 with 56? That mess dinner cost me my "IKE Jacket" white mess kit after a victorious run-in with a flaming mop competing in "mess table jousting"! The fire bucket helmet was the only thing which saved the moustache.
Anyone have email addys for Gary Hewitt, Tony Barmby, Mac MacCartin, Jack Christian (SP), or Andy Green...... or PTUI..... Nick Gilchrist (Harrier mate)??
PS: I was also the ONLY Yank stupid enough to stand in "silly mid off" at the AWC Staff/Student matches (before the move to B.P.) ....and survive..... caught 2 off my chest (hurt like buggery) ,but after 10 or so Pimm's, hardly hurt at all, til the next day.
Sorry, I wasn't the "colonial brother" you mentioned flying tankers! Strictly an RF-4C driver ... but I was the only Yank present at the "do" I attended. 56 did, indeed, win the piano burning that night!!!
EXMIL:
Perhaps you also remember a small USAF contingent (6) from the 1st TRS at Alconbury showing for a "tete-a-tete" late '87 with 56? That mess dinner cost me my "IKE Jacket" white mess kit after a victorious run-in with a flaming mop competing in "mess table jousting"! The fire bucket helmet was the only thing which saved the moustache.
Anyone have email addys for Gary Hewitt, Tony Barmby, Mac MacCartin, Jack Christian (SP), or Andy Green...... or PTUI..... Nick Gilchrist (Harrier mate)??
PS: I was also the ONLY Yank stupid enough to stand in "silly mid off" at the AWC Staff/Student matches (before the move to B.P.) ....and survive..... caught 2 off my chest (hurt like buggery) ,but after 10 or so Pimm's, hardly hurt at all, til the next day.
Last edited by Kato747; 25th Oct 2004 at 14:13.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PORTUGAL
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
johnfairr
Abbey was always a favourite in the early 70's when it was run by a likeable rogue named Alfredo.
There was a place called The Lea Gate on the east side of the field run by a particularly sour sod. One of our guys went in and ordered a pint and a G and T with ice.
"Ice" quoth he in a rising tone of ire, "I spend 300 pounds a year heating this place, and you come in asking for ice..".
A few days later, we went as a large group and all asked for GT's. When we then asked for ice, the response was the same. We left en masse, drinks untouched, and unpaid for.
Sebastopol at Minting anyone?
There was a place called The Lea Gate on the east side of the field run by a particularly sour sod. One of our guys went in and ordered a pint and a G and T with ice.
"Ice" quoth he in a rising tone of ire, "I spend 300 pounds a year heating this place, and you come in asking for ice..".
A few days later, we went as a large group and all asked for GT's. When we then asked for ice, the response was the same. We left en masse, drinks untouched, and unpaid for.
Sebastopol at Minting anyone?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: RIDGEFIELD, WA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UNARMED AND UNAFRAID
***Strictly an RF-4C driver ... ***
KATO~
One of the books that brought my interest to Recce Phantoms was Unarmed and Unafraid. Plus, visiting my brother at MUO and seeing their R Phantoms in the 60s.
One thing I was curious about: On a mission to photograph a target, are Recce planes accompanied by any protection flights, such as the BARCAP used in Vietnam?
Also, Im still looking for the explanation of the metal noise when a plane is making turns in the approach...???
Best, Alex
KATO~
One of the books that brought my interest to Recce Phantoms was Unarmed and Unafraid. Plus, visiting my brother at MUO and seeing their R Phantoms in the 60s.
One thing I was curious about: On a mission to photograph a target, are Recce planes accompanied by any protection flights, such as the BARCAP used in Vietnam?
Also, Im still looking for the explanation of the metal noise when a plane is making turns in the approach...???
Best, Alex