F4 Phantom
OK, sorry for a mere ex-Air Trafficker jumping in on your "good old days" stories but I thought I might share my abiding memory of the F4J at the hands of, I think, a certain Louie McQuade. It was at Wattisham during yet another TACEVAL and it led to one of the best quotes in "Feedback" I ever saw. Apologise for the length of this but I feel it needs a bit of scene-setting and I think it is worth it in the end
Wattisham is wet and cold and the F4 is on its way home from a diversion to Brize where it had gone after dropping his chute on our runway earlier in the day. He is coming home, minus chute with p**s poor brakes and not much poke from the engine.
Basically at Wattisham in the wet, the F4J landed and was under control by the mid-point or it was getting too late to try and get airborne again. We get word that he will take the approach end cable (cos he has no chute) and we are all set. With great timing as usual the sirens go off, the masks go on and Louie is on approach.
He comes over the threshold, plonks it down and sails over the approach cable with no apparent loss of momentum. Hmmmm, thinks us in the Tower before the Tower guy utters the line "I think you missed the cable". Biting his tongue, the cockpit response is "you're right, I will re-cycle the hook and take the PUAG" (portable arrestor gear at the mid-point of the runway). "Roger that" is the Tower controllers response as he leans over the desk to get a better view through his mask; joined by the rest of us displaying not a little amount of interest in the developing situation. The aircraft slows, marginally, and sails serenely over the PUAG stubbornly refusing to connect with it as it trundles on its way.
We have just passed the point of no return, there is not enough power or runway to get airborne and probably not enough brakes or runway to stop; interest is heightening in the Tower and I order "masks off" as we hit the 'Crash Phone'. Before we can stop him, the Tower controller informs the crew that "they missed the PUAG" and, through clenched teeth now, we are informed, with remarkable confidence that they will "re-cycle the hook once more and attempt to take the overrun cable". So the F4J trundles down the runway, slowing all the time but, you always felt, not quite quick enough and it is now being hotly pursued by 3 gleaming Red Fire Engines.
Despite re-cycling, the overrun cable is not troubled by the hook and the situation, already interesting in the cockpit, becomes a tad more serious as the lumbering F4J approaches the end of the runway, the Barrier and the overshoot with more than its fair share of momentum. [Apparently cockpit discussions now turn to the likely acquisition of a couple of Martin Baker ties but hands are kept firmly away from the handles for the moment]. Ever game, Mr McQuade steps a little heavier on the brakes, squeezing every last drop out of them whilst slowing the aircraft down at a remarkable rate.
Just when it looks as though this may fizzle out into just another exercise story the tale takes a dramatic turn, literally, as the aircraft decides enough is enough, breaks free from all attempts to stop it and gracefully pirouettes through 540 degrees to leave it still travelling down the runway but now facing the wrong direction. The atmosphere is now fever pitch in the tower, and I daresay it was a little gamey in the cockpit also. I will leave it to Feedback to close this; having given the details and got to the stage where the aircraft is careering backwards down the runway the article simply states: "Finding himself going backwards down the runway, the pilot coolly applied power and brought the aircraft to a gentle braking halt in the runway overshoot".
That night in the bar when being questioned as to why he stayed with aircraft and spurned the chance of a fancy tie, the response went along the lines of "one hand on the stick, the other on the throttle what am I going to pull the handle with, my d**k!!!". I can't remember who the back-seater was but I do recall he was a lot quieter than usual that night.
Wattisham is wet and cold and the F4 is on its way home from a diversion to Brize where it had gone after dropping his chute on our runway earlier in the day. He is coming home, minus chute with p**s poor brakes and not much poke from the engine.
Basically at Wattisham in the wet, the F4J landed and was under control by the mid-point or it was getting too late to try and get airborne again. We get word that he will take the approach end cable (cos he has no chute) and we are all set. With great timing as usual the sirens go off, the masks go on and Louie is on approach.
He comes over the threshold, plonks it down and sails over the approach cable with no apparent loss of momentum. Hmmmm, thinks us in the Tower before the Tower guy utters the line "I think you missed the cable". Biting his tongue, the cockpit response is "you're right, I will re-cycle the hook and take the PUAG" (portable arrestor gear at the mid-point of the runway). "Roger that" is the Tower controllers response as he leans over the desk to get a better view through his mask; joined by the rest of us displaying not a little amount of interest in the developing situation. The aircraft slows, marginally, and sails serenely over the PUAG stubbornly refusing to connect with it as it trundles on its way.
We have just passed the point of no return, there is not enough power or runway to get airborne and probably not enough brakes or runway to stop; interest is heightening in the Tower and I order "masks off" as we hit the 'Crash Phone'. Before we can stop him, the Tower controller informs the crew that "they missed the PUAG" and, through clenched teeth now, we are informed, with remarkable confidence that they will "re-cycle the hook once more and attempt to take the overrun cable". So the F4J trundles down the runway, slowing all the time but, you always felt, not quite quick enough and it is now being hotly pursued by 3 gleaming Red Fire Engines.
Despite re-cycling, the overrun cable is not troubled by the hook and the situation, already interesting in the cockpit, becomes a tad more serious as the lumbering F4J approaches the end of the runway, the Barrier and the overshoot with more than its fair share of momentum. [Apparently cockpit discussions now turn to the likely acquisition of a couple of Martin Baker ties but hands are kept firmly away from the handles for the moment]. Ever game, Mr McQuade steps a little heavier on the brakes, squeezing every last drop out of them whilst slowing the aircraft down at a remarkable rate.
Just when it looks as though this may fizzle out into just another exercise story the tale takes a dramatic turn, literally, as the aircraft decides enough is enough, breaks free from all attempts to stop it and gracefully pirouettes through 540 degrees to leave it still travelling down the runway but now facing the wrong direction. The atmosphere is now fever pitch in the tower, and I daresay it was a little gamey in the cockpit also. I will leave it to Feedback to close this; having given the details and got to the stage where the aircraft is careering backwards down the runway the article simply states: "Finding himself going backwards down the runway, the pilot coolly applied power and brought the aircraft to a gentle braking halt in the runway overshoot".
That night in the bar when being questioned as to why he stayed with aircraft and spurned the chance of a fancy tie, the response went along the lines of "one hand on the stick, the other on the throttle what am I going to pull the handle with, my d**k!!!". I can't remember who the back-seater was but I do recall he was a lot quieter than usual that night.
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Aaah spey Phantoms.... Abiding memories of airshow performances as a youngster mainly - partic the camo 43 & 111 birds in the 70s & 80s. Any ex display pilots out there?? Am slowly researching jet display flying in the 70s and would love to pick up any info - partic the routines flown.
just a couple of images so we all know what we're talking about!!!
just a couple of images so we all know what we're talking about!!!
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Nice ones Hairyclam and thanks.
The F4K in the photo was my nominal cab and has my name on the side.
Brings back memories of the Yeovilton detachment rehearsing for Silver Jubilee. A huge Somerset pub-crawl.
The F4K in the photo was my nominal cab and has my name on the side.
Brings back memories of the Yeovilton detachment rehearsing for Silver Jubilee. A huge Somerset pub-crawl.
Yes - great piccies indeed. Especially like the 56(F) jet taking off!
Giant Zum'zett pub crawl? Did you visit Eli's at Huish Episcopi? Or the Volunteer at Seavington St Michael?
Giant Zum'zett pub crawl? Did you visit Eli's at Huish Episcopi? Or the Volunteer at Seavington St Michael?
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If I recall correctly, Eli's was associated with Keith Rawlinson late of the FAA. Served superb scrumpy there.
After the final flypast rehearsal at Spithead, an epic crawl took place ending up into the small hours at the Wardroom. The real thing was rained off.
After the final flypast rehearsal at Spithead, an epic crawl took place ending up into the small hours at the Wardroom. The real thing was rained off.
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Question about F4 fin mods
Just looking at the photos I noticed that some of the aircraft have a small rectangular horizontal stablisor type device attached to the top quarter of the fin and some aircraft do not. Anyone able to explain what is did and what models needed it? It looks like an after market addition to solve some aerodynamic quirk.
cheers
Vic
cheers
Vic
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It was indeed RWR, fitted to RAF & RN birds from '74. Think the last one to be fitted (to operational a/c - BAe & Mod test ships didnt get'em) was 1986.
Aah, having re-read victor twos post I believe you are referring to the ILS aerial, again fitted to RAF only birds from '75??
I know its not a photo forum but do you want more pix??
Aah, having re-read victor twos post I believe you are referring to the ILS aerial, again fitted to RAF only birds from '75??
I know its not a photo forum but do you want more pix??
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OK ! Here goes! - more old timers....
First 3 slides, sorry about quality - just nostalgia really!
4 OCU machines in Sept 73
4 6sqn aircaft Sept 71
767 strutting their stuff, Biggin 1970
A rare bird, BAes test machine at Scampton 1989.
Fighting cock 1977
76 display ship - Ian McFayden as pilot
892 in drab weather
First 3 slides, sorry about quality - just nostalgia really!
4 OCU machines in Sept 73
4 6sqn aircaft Sept 71
767 strutting their stuff, Biggin 1970
A rare bird, BAes test machine at Scampton 1989.
Fighting cock 1977
76 display ship - Ian McFayden as pilot
892 in drab weather
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Hairyclamperson
You're right the horizontal aerials are the ILS and the boxy thing on top of the fin are the ARI 18228 RWR aerials. When delivered the FG1 and FGR2 had neither ILS nor RWR! The mod to provide both to the FGR2 took place at the same time, but the FG1s (particularly thoseon 892 Sqn RNAS) only got the RWR because the ILS went in the cockpit space where the internal wing fold was located. RN aircraft could fold the wings on pilot demand whereas the RAF had to get te groundcrew to do it.
You're right the horizontal aerials are the ILS and the boxy thing on top of the fin are the ARI 18228 RWR aerials. When delivered the FG1 and FGR2 had neither ILS nor RWR! The mod to provide both to the FGR2 took place at the same time, but the FG1s (particularly thoseon 892 Sqn RNAS) only got the RWR because the ILS went in the cockpit space where the internal wing fold was located. RN aircraft could fold the wings on pilot demand whereas the RAF had to get te groundcrew to do it.
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Extremes
Once had an unofficial competition in Deci with Stanley Sp**r to see who could get the best AOA:IAS ratio. We pulled up from battle formation into the vertical, let the F-4s slide backwards (what 150 kts limit?!) then went home to look at the results on the ACMI replay. Probably a limitation within the system somewhere but we both recorded 46 AOA and 23 kts! Have already posted my fastest speed, but also once reached (just!) 70,000 ft in an F-4F. POulled up from 32,000 doing M1.85, cancelled burners at about 58,000 and was fully unloaded (stick fully forward for non-drivers) at less than 80 kts as we arced over the top! Stupid really, but the WSO and I decided to go for it as a one-off!
meadowbank
on the ident....Dec 80 the date, XV414 was the aircraft.....
maxburner
Guess I was around as well at the time - anybody know where Nick Morgan is now?
on the ident....Dec 80 the date, XV414 was the aircraft.....maxburner
Guess I was around as well at the time - anybody know where Nick Morgan is now?
Last edited by wiggy; 13th Jun 2004 at 17:51.
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Hi Guys
My only experience of the MDD F-4 Phantom II was when I was a Cadet in the ATC. I was on an ATC camp at RAF Wattisham in September 1992, just after 56 Sqn disbanded and just before 74 Sqn did the same. I would have given anything to have flown one and it is definatly my favourite aircraft. The noise that it made was amazing, it just looked the part, like a real warplane, built for many role, and every role it did well.
If anyone has any pictures of the aircraft in 74 Sqn Colours I'd love to see them.
Richard
My only experience of the MDD F-4 Phantom II was when I was a Cadet in the ATC. I was on an ATC camp at RAF Wattisham in September 1992, just after 56 Sqn disbanded and just before 74 Sqn did the same. I would have given anything to have flown one and it is definatly my favourite aircraft. The noise that it made was amazing, it just looked the part, like a real warplane, built for many role, and every role it did well.
If anyone has any pictures of the aircraft in 74 Sqn Colours I'd love to see them.
Richard
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F4
Finally tempted to join PPrune after many years of anonymous surfing. Nice to recognise some familiar-sounding contributors. Credentials approx 2k F4 hours, plus some time in the spazjet. Interesting to see some dodgy pictures (250' MSD - not). If you're looking for photos there are plenty on the web, including brit stuff. If you want moving pictures you might try to track down (Bad) Manners - he produced some videos when 56 and 74 were at Wattisham.
Talking of altitude records (57k myself), laughed lots when I heard of an instructor calling VMC on top i.e. above 66k. ATC promptly replied: "Roger, radar control terminated, contact on ICF to re-enter controlled airspace". The next transmission was allegedly a pan due to double engine flame-out.
Talking of altitude records (57k myself), laughed lots when I heard of an instructor calling VMC on top i.e. above 66k. ATC promptly replied: "Roger, radar control terminated, contact on ICF to re-enter controlled airspace". The next transmission was allegedly a pan due to double engine flame-out.
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I did a bit of untintentional reversing once. It was my last sortie on the squadron and I was in the back of a 2-sticker running an exchange pilot through an IRT profile - whoopy doo! I started to set the aircraft up for him to do the usual 'recovery from an unusual position' on instruments. I did a couple of rolls and generally flopped about a bit to disorientate him, and then pulled up into a 70 degree climb with the engines at idle. Speed was about 250 - admired the sunset - then 130 - admired more sunset - then 130, at which point I thought 'That's not right, speedo's stuck!' just as the speed dropped off the clock. No problem, but I decided that it wouldn't be fair to hand over control at this stage so I just centralised controls with a view to doing it all again but properly. The nose began to rise so I pushed the stick forward and the nose rose even faster into the vertical. With the stick fully forward the aircraft wasn't recovering but the nose was still rising, and then I noticed smoke drifting upwards out of the intakes. It dawned on me that we were now going backwards, which is why the elevator was operating in the opposite sense. I centralised controls and held very tight, muttering something like 'Hang on!' to the the other driver. The aircraft crashed over onto its back, down through the vertical until it was about 70 degrees nose up (again), then flopped down through the vertical again until upside down and horizontal-ish, and then pendulum-ed a few times through the downward vertical, with us being shaken like peas in a pod and crashing our heads against the windows. I thought 'How embarrassing - last sortie on the squadron and I'm about to eject!' Eventually the jet steadied out with its nose pointing at the North Sea, engines still going, the speed began to increase and I levelled off. Calmly I said 'You have control. What else would you like to do?' and then we went home - quietly.
I learned about flying (backwards) from that.
I learned about flying (backwards) from that.
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Neither of you fly for Eastern do you? On a business flight last week it felt like the guy in the RHS was using the F4 technique to lose a few knots on touchdown (or was that to trip off the INAS?).
If Dead Dog is around - the flames out of the intakes sounds familiar; remember the 4v4 F16 DACT on the Nth Sea ACMI? It wasn't the best way to avoid being gunned, but it worked.
If Dead Dog is around - the flames out of the intakes sounds familiar; remember the 4v4 F16 DACT on the Nth Sea ACMI? It wasn't the best way to avoid being gunned, but it worked.
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Remember how impressive it was (well, it impressed the ***t out of me) to roll from landing, engage full burner and lift the flaps at the same time - both engines surged - vapour coming forwards out of both intakes - alternate max thrust/no thrust throwing crew back then forward in harness.
What a beast - glad it didn't bite too hard.
A machine that talked back - what a pleasure to fly and operate in.
What a beast - glad it didn't bite too hard.
A machine that talked back - what a pleasure to fly and operate in.