1/ US airline in bad shape.

2/ 11 year Captain hears about airlines in the Middle East where he can hold onto his command.

3/ Looks on PPRuNe to find out more.

4/ Sees posts about declining conditions at these airlines.

5/ Thinks pilots whinge and whine everywhere so it can't be true.

6/ And anyway he's joining on Captains terms so he's ahead of the game.

7/ Signs up to PPRuNe and writes belittling post about his future colleagues.


And if he's getting 55% on his investments wtf is he still doing in this dying industry anyway.

''I have been flying twenty years...
Airline flying 13 of them...
Captain almost 11 of them...
All in the US...''

I think the beginning of your post adequately explains why you have this point of view.
11 years as Captain at airline, out of 13. How fortunate for you, congratulations. Your nice little sheltered career in the US is going to look awfully good to you after your arrival here. ''Roger that, undershtand cleared down 24 OH !''

''The guys and girls that are happy are never on the posts...
It is always the naggers... good googly moogly...''

I am happy and I post here, therefore I singlehandedly prove you wrong.

''Someone is always pissed and spends more time complaining than fixing the problem...''
There is no avenue to fix any problem one might have at EK. You will learn that fast enough after your impending arrival. Will you be running for the head of our Union?


''If inflation is bad... (1) every pay cheque move your money to a hard currency and stop it from devalueing... (2) If the retirement funds are so conservative and earning slow rates contribute less... see point (1) and invest privately in foriegn markets earning 55% plus.''

You are not a logical thinker. 1-How does moving cash to a hard currency decrease the affects of inflation? 2- there is a bottom line contribution so that advice is irrelevant 3- can you give me a list of those 55% plus markets???

''But I swear... all you complainers went to the same flight school because you are all on every airlines bulletin boards.''
What exactly does that mean? So every poster on every board for every airline, went to the same flight school?


''You rot your own mind with the !!!!! you fertilize it.''
Must be a pleasure spending a red-eye next to you.

So to sum up. You are a brilliant investor, a pilot who has spent a whopping 2 years in the right seat at an airline, with an apparently 'blessed' career path, who feels it necessary to criticize and belittle anyone who posts a complaint on an airline forum................. YET YOU ARE LEAVING YOUR STORIED CAREER BEHIND to join as a DEC........ and at an airline that should never have started a DEC policy!

On behalf of the rest of us whingers and complainers, I would like to welcome to EK the next Captain America!

Guys like you really do make me feel smart. Thanks for your intelligent and well thought-
out post, haha.

ps. Good post rj274

"All of them in the US".....here comes another one!!:confused:

rj, remove your post, you give americans a bad name, now poeple think all americans are stupid which is not true.

I think you got that wrong Goretex. rj's post was excellent. The post from spidermoth is the amusing one.

Heard from recruitment guy that DEC are done for now - no more hiring of DEC's in for the next while anyway!

DECs
 

Do you really believe what the company tells you? When was the last time they told the truth? How many times have they told us no more DECs? As sure as the sun will come up in the east tomorrow Emirates will hire DECs just to further lower morale.

SpiderMouth.. sorry, Moth, I had a friend who spent three years as a military recruiter. He said 99% of potential recruits had one thing in common - they heard only what they wanted to hear, and simply blanked out or ignored anything he told them that didn't fit into the mindset they had when they walked in the door, hell bent on putting on a uniform.

Six months down the track, a large proportion of them were bitching that things weren't as rosy as promised - despite the fact that he had clearly spelled out all the pitfalls and shortcomings of the system they would without doubt experience.

I had a similar experience in my time in the military when I found myself in a position of interviewing and selecting enlisted men for airmen aircrew positions. (Most applicants had spent three or four years in the Service in non flying jobs.) My speech to successful candidates went along the lines of: "If you have a really important family occasion, an anniversary, a child's school prize giving, a wife's birthday, I can almost guarantee you that you'll be away on detachment at the time or sent way on a trip the day before the big event. Have a talk with your wife (if there was one) and make sure she understands this, and if either of you can't handle that, this job isn't for you.."

To a man, the applicants would nod sagely and assure me they understood and were willing to accept that. ...and six or 12 months down the line... you guessed it. "We didn't know... Why weren't we told... I wasn't expecting it to be like this..."



Of course, with your (excuse me as I pause here to gasp in admiration) 13 years airline experience, 11 of those years as a captain, none of the above will apply to you. Welcome to the Sandpit. The lads in head office are gonna love you. But you'll really need to be creative to have them love you more than they already love your countryman Brian. (A perhaps cryptic comment you'll all too quickly come to understand after you get here to take up the DEC position [at least you consider] you so richly deserve.)

We're saved!!!

Bloody septics. Their main problem? They don't know that they don't know.

Gillegan
 

Re-sizing the photo did work, thanks very much.

At last the application is finally submitted.:ok:

"Crew scheduling remembers everyething and writes it all down on your personal page."

Scarey! Scarey stuff! I would have thought that was the case with most airlines as it's probably very difficult to remember each and every employee! It even happens at BA! Yes! Believe it or not!

Spidermoth
 

great post...I can almost hear your southern droll whe I read ittttt!!!

now what eye wan d to no is what are you wastin your time answerin all thes dere criters on PPRUNE when you could bee hedgin all that dere mone of yours on oil or some thin ???

Hello! I've been reading positive and negative opinions here for only a few days so please don't attack or be presumptuous about how much I know or don't know or how smart or stupid I am.
I would like to express my view on how I see this situation and I need your input, as objective as possible, on where you think I am right or wrong.

The way this job (F.O) is described on EK's website, it seems ideal to me - the "2 month regional pilot" with a min $720 paycheck every two weeks. I think it would help, when you express your opinions, to explain the background you come from and compare and contrast what is so great/awful at EK compared to your past work experiences.

Being from a not so smoothly functioning country in Southeastern Europe (Macedonia) I know that I would be used to the lack of liberty of impact on company policies/decisions/actions/justice/fairness so that is one thing won't bother me working for EK. The US is not much better. I work for one of the top 3 regionals in the US and in the 2 months of being there I have already seen the company override the contract in several occasions such as displacing pilots out of seniority after a base closed and so forth. So as far as EK's integrity goes, or any other's, you will be stepped on no matter where you go. I've accepted this, check in the box.

As far as living in Dubai goes, I have already made a huge cultural leap when I moved to the US as an exchange student at 16 (now 25). So I have already dealt with what most people refer as a "cultural shock" (which I never experienced) so It wouldn't be as hard to do it again. Drivers where I come from don't really comprehend the term defensive driving as it is anyway so little details such as that wouldn't really bother me as much. Males staring down other females (or even other males) as if it was mating season is another phenomenon I am very much accustomed to.

As far as money goes, I think that a starting salary of approx. $75,000 tax-free with majority of expenses paid is a very genenerous salary. For the skeptics that may claim it gets taxed when you bring it back in the US, it doesn't - as long as you spend 330 days out of the 12 months of the year you are exempt. So if you spend 5 years in Dubai stashing most of this money away, not to mention your vesting fund, which if honored at 12% contribution should bring you a nice chunk of savings.

43 days off a year? Who can beat that? (other than cathay) I think it's not bad if you can't take more then 3 weeks consecutively off. Would you be able to do that anywhere else? A handful of places.

I'm gonna stop listing EK benefits as I'm sure most of you are much more familiar with them then me. My attempt here was to present my view, and my view only. I don't think I am right or wrong neither do I think that anybody else is right or wrong. My point here was to show that a negative thing for you may not be such a bad thing in my opinion. I understand if you think that's stupid just because It doesn't agree with your view. But RJ made a good point when he said this is everybody's perception of things and a collection of views. So I invite you to give me yours. And more importantly I would like you to elaborate more and possibly document some of your points, such as company provided housing with maybe some pictures of the areas where you live, the interior, exterior, surrounding area etc. or just pictures from everyday life. What are some ranges of rental fees for, apartments, condos, houses, villas or any type of common housing that is in the Dubai area, in particular, areas popular for westerners or EK pilots.
What does DHS 10,565 in housing allowance a month get you? Do you only get this for a year? Are you on your own afterwards? Is health coverage free? Sounds like a good deal. What is flying pay? Is this additional to your monthly salary of Dhs 22,720 a month or is it calculated in it? What about productivity pay?
The website gives very poor description of some of the benefits and I don't see any posts that discuss these things at length. All I see is you guys bickering over who's sees what :)

Please, do not criticize my post, as it is a waste of all of ours' time. I would love to read what you have to add as long as it is informative, not just your general opinion. Opinions are good as long as they are objective, which we as humans are rarely capable of producing :)

Your situtation is not unlike the hundreds and more every month it seems, looking seriously at EK. From your point of view being very young at 25, and flying a small regional jet making just enough to party on the weekends, it seems like a very good deal. And much of it is....however, it is perspective and most of the new hires are older with families in tow with perhaps with more to consider. EK still has a minimum requirement and with more and more from the US applying I would guess recruitment will become more competitive. As it should, some of the new recruits are fairly inexperienced...:O having said that, "what the heck", if EK gives you the opportunity, who could fault you at 25 coming from a US feeder.

Fatbus - summer leave has NEVER BEEN A GIVEN....... Did you take it as such?

vlatkomk

We can all see where you're coming from and fully understand that the EK conditions must look like a bargain to you. Let's not forget however that earlier EK wanted to attract experienced pilots, LHS or RHS, mainly WB experience in their CV. With a few exeptions only bigger carriers provided such experience, so in order to reach these guys they had to set up similar T&Cs. With the need for more pilots and not enough trickling in, they lowered the requirements to get the numbers, therefore tapping into a pool who was not used to decent salaries. These might tend to regard the complaining EK pilots as whingers, but consider the above and you will see that the starting point is very different.

Just seize this opportunity right now, because i think with the downturn in global commercial aviation, there will again be a lot of more experiened pilots available! I believe EK will go for them, mainly because the higher training and failure rates the less experienced actually demonstrate mean higher cost.

Best luck

Just do it
 

Cut to the bottom line, it is great fun here. Life is good, OK, some problems, but who gives a flying F.

I am not with EK, but spend a lot of time inside their brain.

glf

Vlatkomk,

If I were you, I would be here in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.
Best of luck!

Gee, thanks, that really helps.

You spend a lot of time inside our brains.....:confused:.....huh!!

???????????????? Haven't started yet? Spent there about 20% of my life and am about Jeremy Clarkson's age.

"The Good, The Bad and The Smugly" :p

... reckon that could be tha name of this thread! :hmm:

Well AC, give yerself another few months - it takes about 2 years for an expat to adjust to a new place in my experience. You may find reason to change your mind.

I am a Canuck, and I sure didn't get any hurt feelin's from anything you said in your post. Some nationalities are sure thin skinned... and they sure get on the offensive and off topic when they start playin' that card... sigh.

I hear what you're saying. It's unfortunate for ya personally that ya don't feel things are good fer you here at this time. It is a fact that expat life is not for all folks. It just doesn't sit well with some. You CAN talk frankly to your chief pilot and fleet mangler and see about what kind of consideration you could get if you really have to leave. It's been done before. They aren't completely inhuman.

I agree with most of what you say - some have disagreed with you here but, well, you have the right to your opinion. Most of the defenders of your post are the more articulate bloggers on this site - that says something I reckon.

I reckon what you say is good food for thought fer the newcomers and wannabees to the big sandbox. That's a healthy antidote to the slick advertising, recruitment, and dearth of conventional information about this carrier. Sadly, your painful honesty about not havin' done your homework and learnin' up about the pitfalls of DXB has permitted some posters to instruct you to 'man - up'. I reckon it takes a man to admit his mistake and so good for you.

I do object to the statement, (can't remember who made it), about the dead bodies on the road thing... hell, there's lots worse on television and some kids's video games than what you see in real life here.

It's a fact that some folks are trapped here by things that are a lot more dangerous than what you've said in your sensitive post. Ego, vanity, failure to update on the basis of new information and psychic traps of all sorts... there's all kinds of self deceptions here, just like at home and these all contribute at times to the stuckness that some folks have.

You have the ability to comprehend your surroundings and your situation and see that it's not for you. That's the first step to gettin' yerself out.:)

Good luck and fly safely.
k-o-t-s

Taxes
 

Vlatkomk,

Small correction, you do pay taxes. Anything over 85,000 a year is taxable. This includes all income. Housing is income. School allowance is income. Furniture package/ furniture allowance is income. Anything you recieve from the company is income.

Honor system granted, but with over 150 American pilots and growing at Emirates you can rest assured that there have been a few meetings regarding this topic at your local IRS office. With an average of 1 in 97 Americans being audited... it only takes one to launch a large investigation.

cadidalhopper

Please don't join the silly ranks ......:ugh:

School or education allowance is NOT income. It is a contribution to cost that would have been prohibitive for a lot of us joining. It's like EK paying a part of our all taxes, for taxes pay free education in modern societies. Children and education by the way are also a contribution to modern societies, this is for those who have a hard time adjusting to modern human civilisation.

As you point out rightly, everything you receive from the company is income. Well, we DO NOT receive education allowance. It goes to the school directly along with my mandatory and not so small contribution.
Income to me is when I receive money that i can decide what to spend it on. Housing allowance for example can be spent on a golf course villa, adding thousands of dirty-hams yourself, or on a small houseboat and taking out a big lump for savings.
We CAN'T do that with EA.

Hi
I'm new at this forum, and say hello to everyone.

I'm planning to sign for EK.
Can some one give me a copy of a couple of your flight schedules?. I'm little bit worried about all things you are saying.

Thanks.

GMDS - I think his point was that housing and schooling is condidered income by the IRS and is therefore considered part of the income equation. You will pay tax on it.

Get divorced - they consider it income as well. Ask some of the guys who are in that situation and they don't have much 'cash' left over.

Trader

I got the point, sorry.

I am of the vast majority looking at the Middle Eastern thread named "For THOSE (not only Americans!) who consider Emirates" and don't really care what the IRS thinks or does. The USA to us is just another part of the big world and by far not its center.

For us education allowance still is NOT income, because it does not come in. If you argue that this applies to housing, if you're in EK acco, then at least here you would have the choice of opting out to get the full amount and do with it whatever you want. Not possible with EA.

Just a question from a ignorant non-US viewer:
Is the assumption true that because you have to list EA to the IRS, that a married US-expat with 3 children (and therefore a nice EA) has to pay MORE tax back home than a single childless collegue?
(it would be mind boggling to me)

GMDS

Just read your post Algonquin Crusader. Great post...great subjective insight into Emirates. Thank you!

The rest of you are missing the point. AC was letting people like me who are considering coming there, the inside details that are very difficult to find out except from someone who as been there. There are other options out there, and other companies do offer more in terms of lifestyle/pay package balance. Stop snivelling and browbeating the ones who are trying to help the ones who need this info. Thanks AC...you have provided me the information I was looking for!!

The rest of you deserve the conditions you have. Take your 2 weeks vacation and then work the other 2 weeks at 80 hours. I bet you complain about it at the time don't you! Unable to take vacation when you want, working half a planet from your home, missing your family. And you don't deserve a better pension unless you band together with AC and speak with him. You are the ones who are reducing our profession to a lower level. We are highly trained professionals. We deserve respect and to be treated as such.

Honestly, do you all want poor conditions for everyone all over the world in our profession? Stop browbeating the people who are critical of the issues at your company. AC was hardly militant about it!! It says volumes about yourselves.

A! I like it 'ere.
 

A! I like it 'ere, eh?
No shovelling da snow off da roof, no snow tire, no freakin' -35C in Feb, 'an, you can ski, swim or sail 365 day a year.
All dat and 32 cents a liter for da gaz. Also, 'dere is only full serve gaz.
c;
Troff

Hey GMDS.....now worries. I am not American but my understanding is, yes, the school fees would be included in your taxable income. They are a material benefit and so are taxable.

I flew with one poor fellow who is divorced and the judge uses ALL income - which includes the value of the housing allowance, retirmement fund etc in teh calculation of total monthly income. He then pays the allocated percentage to his ex-wife based on that total sum.

LR3 - I'll second that...

Keep the blue side up.

LR3-

Are you from England?

If so, there are some pretty bad things there that involve death. Why just recently in broad daylight some poor security man got stabbed to death outside the Virgin store in London. Not to mention the high crime rate, gang fights etc.

For those considering Emirates- come and enjoy. It is not a prison sentence, and you can always leave, (or you can stay and whinge continually like many of the losers on this forum).
;)

555orange,

I don't post often but I can't let an inflammatory post like this go unnoticed.

I am glad that you have seen it this way. Thank goodness you won't be coming here......apparently we have enough idiots in this place.

AC's post was one sided and, frankly, was factually incorrect. Just by way of example, we have a very good bidding system which he says is no good. I have often come across people that think like this and with a bit of probing I find that they do not understand how the system works or have unrealistic expectations. In short I think he is too stupid or too lazy to learn how it works.

He mentions that we do not get the credit when we call in sick......maybe factually correct, but how often does he call in sick that this is a factor in his life?

The pension here is fine.......this guy does not understand the difference between a defined contribution fund and a defined benefit fund. This is basic financial literacy. Why on earth would I want to consult with him on it when he is so clearly uninformed?

And don't get me started on the training bond issue. I signed my bond the same time as I signed my employment contract. Its is a simple clear contract and if he felt so strongly about training bonds why did he sign it in the first place. To whine about it afterwards shows a lack of integrity as far as I am concerned.

I can feel for the chap when he said he made a mistake. There are plenty of reasons not to like it here but to come across as a poor victim being knobbed by this big company is simply ridiculous.

Mr. Orange,

You obviously are not in a very good situation and are hoping to improve it. But are you trying to convince others or convince yourself because of the conditions of your current contract....

Best of luck

LR3,

Fair enough - Good post. I agree with your last post 100%.

Have a great day,

LF

Kenny
 

Kenny the Prince you have not worked at a real airline if you think your retirement fund at EK is good. How much money do you have in your account? Let me guess, not much! You render your crediablity useless when you say the retirement program is good here.
The bidding system is rigged and is not a real bidding system either. You should know better.
After being here for over 7 years I do not believe that there are any factually incorrect items in AC posts. Ek is not a top tier airline as has been metioned before and everyone should be beware before signing, especially if you come from a top tier airline.

Cerbus, Are you nuts? 17% (5 of yours 12 of the company's) of your basic salary going into a retirment fund that you direct is bad? Find me one-just one, retirment fund at any US MAJOR airline that is better than that. My friends there who have lost all of their retirments from major US carriers are doing very well with their fund. Maybe it's not what some unionized EU carrier is getting, but 17% ain't real world back in the US.

And the bidding system is great according to my buds. They seem to be happy knowing in advance when they are on reserve (not 5 years solid at some US carriers) and at times they are at the top of the bidding system.

It's difficult to broad brush Emirates (as an airline) when it seems that many there come from situations where conditions are not as good as Emirates. But to say that the bidding system and the retirment system is no good or lacking is just wrong when comparing it with most (if not all) airlines in the US. See what kind of money you would have after 25 years at Emirates at a conservative 5% compounded.

Delta is getting 13% of the very high salary. Northwest even with their pension frozen is getting more that EK and that is just from their A plan. Their B plan tops ours hands down. Continental is very good and puts EK to shame. And then there is AA whose pilots only retire with $3 million of the company's money. They can also put in 5% or more of their own money just like EK and probably go over $4 million.
If EK is such a great deal why do so many pilots have so little money after so many years? After 7 years I don't even have $75,000! Can you believe that? And it is not just me ask countless other pilots and they will tell you tales of the same.
The bidding system is full of manual interventions and you know it. Yes they would have a proper bidding system if they left it alone but you and I both know they can't leave well enough alone.
Yes I am nuts becasue I am an EK pilot. Because of my many late night flights I don't think clearly anymore. I guess I don't need a pension since I am going to be dead at an early age. Keep Recovering

The PF is something a lot of people complain about, however a lot of them have never done anything with it, and just let it sit in cash. Only one third of those enjoying the PF have ever registered with the company that is payed by EK to give advise on the investment choices.
Ofcourse, pilots know the financial world a lot better than financial advisers and they don't need the advice....

No complaints about my PF.

Rgds

How long have you been at EK and how much is your account? If you have no complaints than something is seriousily wrong. Just look around and see how much and see how much ours is lacking.

Over 5 years, up more than 20% on average.
Fair enough, it's not 50% or 80% like some made in real estate, but hey, I can live with that. Good for those who did take the risk and had some money for downpayments.