Mascarpone
Your need to hurl insults and make comments about sailing, first class food and peoples private lives, pretty well defines you. Your immaturity is truly astounding. I pray you are not a Purser or SFS, because it sounds like you are the personification of the problem that IFS is experiencing.

:cool: Dudes...

... what is the title of this site again? I can't seem to remember in all this excitement ...was it Professional Pilots' Ruin'er Network, or Professional Prunes RoomHer Nitwork... Professin'Hell Hitworks Get work... I am completely flabbergasted... could someone defuzzify the mudlicious slander of the IFS Dee/part/meant on this site... don't they have their own forum...? Take off, eh!

:p mach-hog

Many of you are upset and concerned of the recent restructure Ek has made within their IFS unit. Iwould say I am quite surprised at the quick announcement.

It is one thing to have your crew members like you, and it is another thing to be an effective manager. It was clear to Ek Management that neither of these managers were effective to handle and manage Ek's rapid expantion. I am quite definate that when Senior management make internal restructures, they are concerned with performance as opposed to the popularity of certain Cabin Crew Managers.

For an airline to grow and maintain stability within its IFS unit, it requires all crew members to be guided into professional workers. This can only be supported by Cabin Crew Managers.

Ek requires managers who can lead an airline into the new future.

All the best to those managers.

**

ITU,

Spot on. Leaving personalities behind, I don't know most of them anyway. EK used to be a small airline and we had a lot of managers that operated well in that environment. 20 years later as the airline has grown in size it is clear that the skills of some of the management haven't. In a small company, 'horse trading' and to a degree 'crisis managment' can work without unduely upsetting the apple cart.

As a company grows the small decisions have to be thought through to make certain that the full implications have been understood. When people start 'pleasing their mates' in this environment it results in all sorts of unwanted consequences. We all know in Business that a great many people are promoted to their level of incompetence. The reason they get stuck as middle managers is not because they are that great but because those further up the tree do not feel they would cope with any more responsibility. From what I have seen at EK we have some great employees. But, we also have significant deadwood that have been stifling the growth of the airline. There are some people that are largely uneducated and others that are plain corrupt, controlling our lives in all sorts of areas.

Cerberus

C'mon Guys

Flight deck and cabin crew are still one team! We will ALL be affected by the changes.

Fight the problems.......not each other!

What a crock of !!!!!, how many "team" players get together on the average layover these days? How many take the time to come say hello on a 14 hr flight? How many have the common courtesy and manners to greet/acknowledge the flight deck in a hotel lobby, crew bus, briefing etc. The only time (most of) the cabin crew venture near the flight deck is when the feces has hit the fan or when they need something!

Team my arse, have a look around, you're on your own!

Thank you for your support guys.

We are one team and hopefully most of us know that.

Personally, i have a lot of respect for u guys up front. Perhaps the new crew are sometimes a little nervous to come and see you and as you know some flights there just isn't the time.

But anyway, back to the issue - the cabin crew are generally really very upset about what has happened. It will affect us in a big way. I have been here for 11 years and there isn't one person in the office who knows me anymore! The people who have gone were much respected by us, and they were caring people who have gone out of their way to help lots of people - in their own time as well.

With the likes of PF to name but one why would anyone in their right mind wish to visit the F/D?

Or reassure me by telling me that he has gone.

As to going out downroute, well I get a wee tired of the same fattys' and lot everywhere we go, but has it struck anyone that the demography has changed? Although we do manage a night out at least on one roster, cabin crew are not flying the same patterns as F/D, then there are the F/D changes on some routes and so on, trust me boys it ain't that easy!

Seaman....
 

Sounds like you must really be hard up to do all that cabin crew ars* licking! But like you say, pay the bill and they might even laugh at some of your jokes!

I don't beg for 23 year old kids for their company and slapper conversation. Been around the block too often.

I'm sorry guys, about that dinner, has someone actually thought that some of you actually pull the same stunt!! Not that it's right, however, decide on how to settle the bill before you order!!

Try be a bit more individual in judging people.

The amount of time I've spent alone with you guys going out for a drink and dinner by myself, because no one of our crew has showed up is numerous! And then having to listen to flight stories whole night long in stead of other interests in life...

That doesn't mean I won't go out for dinner anymore, because not everyone is the same. We all have our own agenda's and things to do, especially if and when we finally get that layover we bid for!! As you may encounter as well, is that our bidding system isn't that crew friendly, so if we are "blessed" to get something to our liking, let us enjoy that as well in our own way. There are different ways of being a team, and going out on the piss and getting hammered isn't on everyones' idea of having a good time and switching of from work.

Lets keep some respect for eachother here! When you start there, you got something going!

Who was the F/O now captain from canada who always manages to wiggle himself out of paying the bill? FG?

Ding ding you are right! and not just that but they want to impose their order while they are there, screw the girls when they can and tell us about their new house in Guantanamo bay!
And the porsche that's on the way.

And they are always moaning about money!

mascarpone, I assume you are still talking about CCMs...

Mascarpone,

I understand where you are comming from, and I understand where they are comming from. The point is that everyone always generelises and forgets that we are all individuals!!!

And yes, on the cc's end of the story, the cockboys can be very intimidating and scary to talk to.

From the cockboys' side, the crew sometimes are like a kindergarden-crew they have to work with.

So, I'm not pointing fingers, just pointing out that as we are all supposed to adults, lets just try and act like them. And if it means that cc have to lead by example, so be it, however if it is the cockboys, so be it too!!

Oh ! Desert whine pitty you are no good for me just another fore-akh-skin!

Your post is too long and I have no time!


Good night, and if you have a manual for the porsche keep it under your pillow and toss on it as much as you like!

Ding ding good on you good sense!

Still are cock boys this lot what can I say? They can't take criticism and want the F/D door open?
doubt it unles you are a 33DD.

Sexist pigs!

I can understand that you might be surprised that during a 14hr sector none of the crew have been to visit the cockpit but do you realise what is happening in the cabin?

1. some pursers still discourage movements by crew between cabin classes.

2. for example a SYD/MEL trip all crew are on duty for the first service and then half go straight down to the bunks for their break. During this time the remaining crew are kept well busy clearing up, doing preps for the next service/sector aswell as maintaining the cabin they cant afford the time to visit the flight deck and leave the other crew alone. Then the break shifts swap over before its all hands on deck for the final service before landing.

As for some of your other points it goes both ways believe me. Ive also been ignored by flight deck crew in hotel lobbies, or could it be that people do look different out of uniform and they've not recognised you?

Dont take any of it personal. Im not a person big on attending the crew dinners because after spending that 14hr sector, the last thing i'd want to do is go for dinner with the same cabin crew. Although i always make a point of thanking the tech crew at the end of the trip rather than being the 5th person to shout out loud on the crew bus asking how many flying hours ive just accumulated!

Sorry

I did not mean to add fuel to the fire.
I'm one of the rare ones that visits the deck regularly and Im am also the one delegated "social coordinator" most the time.
I am married to a pilot so can see both sides....in the end it just comes down to respect for each other.

Can we now get back to the real reason for this thread?

With all these CCMs gone who is going to fill the void left??

Perhaps this article on ITP might enlighten some of you as to what is really happening, TD wants to bring in his colleagues from BA......


Emirates in top management cull
by Rhys Jones ([email protected])
EMIRATES AIRLINE has axed a number of its senior management in a bid to halt the slipping service standards on many of its flights, Arabian Business can reveal.

Terry Daly, Emirates' senior vice president, service delivery, sacked the staff last week after having previously called a meeting to highlight the decline in service standards on the Dubai-based carrier's flights. Senior Emirates executives are now braced for a wave of challenges to the dismissals.

"I can confirm the meeting took place," said Mike Simon, senior vice president of corporate communications at Emirates. "There were not widespread dismissals - there were eight [sackings] and more information will be released pending the result of the staff's appeal."

Earlier this year Emirates, which operates flights to 77 cities in 54 countries, issued a warning to its 5600 cabin crew staff about service standards. A letter to senior airline stewards from Daly urged them to improve their quality of service, galley behaviour, attitude, grooming, cabin monitoring and to reduce noise levels.

"I am very sad to say that we have been receiving more and more reports about our standards slipping," said Daly in the internal memo. "I stood watching one of our peak departure periods recently and I was appalled at some of the things I saw."

Since its launch in 1985, Emirates has received more than 250 international awards in recognition of its efforts to provide high levels of customer service, including Airline of the Year and Best Customer Service. Although the carrier insists on consistently high service standards it has previously acknowledged that many of its 25,000 staff fail to meet them.

"Given the scale, it is inevitable that there will be some differences in cultural outlook and in attitude. Many of our cabin crew are working in their first overseas employment ever and we appreciate that some may have difficulties in adjusting to a new and working environment," said an Emirates Airline spokesperson. "Emirates prides itself on taking customer feedback seriously. The letters to our in-flight staff were written in order to refocus and re-engage our crew on key areas which our customers say are important," the carrier's spokesperson added.

Sources within Emirates told Arabian Business that Daly, who previously worked for British Airways (BA) in the region is keen to replace the dismissed staff with some of his former colleagues at the UK flag carrier.

Daly was previously BA's general manager for its passenger and cargo business and later became the airline's area manager for the Middle East - a position based in Dubai.

All eyes will be on Emirates in the coming weeks and months as it is one of the launch carriers of the eagerly anticipated A380 super-jumbo aircraft. As such, Daly's initiative is seen as a move to match his former employer, BA's reputation as the world leader for providing high-quality in-flight service.

Come on Smegma..."sources within Emirates..." it may or may not be true, but quoting "sources" is the oldest jounalistic trick in the book. The simple fact is if people (crew) are not performing then it comes down to either training or management. TD has looked at training and now management, he would appear to be one of the few senior managers prepared to make a decision. I do not know any of the CCMs, but just because some were well liked, doesn't make them good at their jobs.

Maybe it's neither. Maybe the crew they're hiring these days are just plain old STUPID.

SandIgger, I could only agree with you, as a matter of fact all new recruits are stupid, including the pilots they are getting these days, I think you are living proof of that!


Oh yes, and turtleneck show us that stick of yours, as if the only thing that existed between God and mother earth was the pilot himself. God save us!

Driver!

I wonder whose time it is anyway yours or ours? As if you could just decide....Pilots in EK can't even decide for themselves let alone for crew, I've seen the lot of you in action, avoiding to write ASR's for fear of being called in......

Skiving to pay bills and eating in the grottiest of places to make the morgage terms on your guantanmo bay facility......and then expecting first class food, because your wife who knows you better chooses not to feed you. I wonder why?...............Why should I go out with you and pay for you when at the end you are going to kick me in the mouth?

and half of you have the knack to stand there and pretend that you have authority, yea right, my ass! The day you walk out the door like most who have you'll only have your hand above your hand like every employee above your head to say bye bye and yyour tail between your legs to clean up your own feces.

It's the lot like you who have nothing to do but push threats on the net that make EK miserable. It speaks for much of the attitude of you lot on board and the prevailing racism and bigotry that differentiate you from the rest.

Keep it mate its all yours with the little chinese and koreans, we'll see how much juice you'll get out of them before you go senile over the 2 dirhams extra you save.

Now Halleluyah if I ain't speaking the gobsmacking truth!

Get a life!

So does the above post support the underlying issue as to why IFS was restructured.?

Please stick with the aformentioned topic and avoid going off in a tangent.

mascarpone, can you highlight where in the newspaper article you produced, it states that TD is proposing to recruit staff from BA??

'Halleluyah'..... seems a nerve has been tweaked!! If any of you have got a Marlin boat can I come along? We'd be bound to catch something even if the hook was baited with cheese. For another angle, I heard TD was leaving soon anyway.

I heard he got a warning letter, it's news to me he's going to leave.
Anyone else heard that one as well?

Hey 'Gonadzola', pull your head out of your arse please and stop being so rude to your fellow professionals (who whether you like it or not do have more authority than you -- thank god).

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading all your vitriol.

I think you just have to accept that EK (and I'm sad to say this) probably has the least sociable CC of any airline (save a couple in the far east). This is now the 4th airline I've worked for and have never come accross a bunch of people so unwilling to speak to one another let alone the guys in the front.

I did a 9hr flight to MNL recently with a top bloke sat next to me (both of us mid 30's BTW so not too old and crusty yet), and despite being friendly and jovial in the briefing and inviting the crew up to the flight deck be it for a chat or a rest, no-one NOT ONE person from the crew bothered to come up to the FD during the flight.....The L1 did her duty by checking on us every 20 mins BY INTERPHONE, and I brought my dinner in myself after taking a slash. To rub salt into the wound, the L1 (while sat on her jumpseat reading 'OK magazine!!) even had the audacity to say to me (on one of my piss breaks) 'you guys must get really bored in there sometimes'!! We had a sniff of each others armpits-wasn't that, so I'm sorry to say the only conclusion we could make was that there was a bunch of completely miserable tossers AFT of the FD door, that have no concept of what its like to be locked in a tiny room considerably smaller than a convicted murderer's prison cell for hours on end.

Before you respond with the 'but you guys dont know what we do down the back, we're soooooo busy' nonsense, I'm married to crew and I've worked for other airlines (unlike most of you), so I' do have a concept of 'what you do', and I cannot accept that on a 9hr flight you can't spare 10 MINS to come and see the drivers especially when most of the pax are asleep!

Some of you should try working for a UK Charter airline, then you'd know what hard work really was: 360 smelly 'chav' pax in an A330, 10 crew, 11hrs 30mins to Mexico from London, NO REST, NO BIDDING SYSTEM etc etc. yet they still find time to come and say 'Hi', and despite the 14hr total duty dealing with 'Package Holiday Punters' (imagine dealing with Manchester type pax every flight, and you'll have an idea, ie smoking in the lav's, punching each other, and throwing up/pissing in the galley (sad but true))---still the crew turn round and say 'right guys, where we off to tonight?' NOT 'oh I'm really tired I did a night DOH 3 days ago', while standing in the hotel reception after a 7hr working day to MUC!!!!!!!! 'Kin stunning......

So to reiterate, no-one in my previous airlines thought I was unapproachable (least of all my missus), it would seem most of you are unapproachable towards us, but perhaps more strangely TOWARDS EACH OTHER!!!!

Having had my rant, and got a few things off my chest that have been brewing for a while now, I would like to point out that not all EK crew fit the above 'chip on the shoulder towards FD' profile, indeed I've had a good few layovers and a laugh with crew here - one which stands out was when 2 girls came up to me the next morning after a top night out and said 'jeez, we haven't had that much fun or laughed that much in ages', well perhaps you should take the time to get to know us a little on a flight, and who knows maybe you wont spend 23hrs staring at the inside of a hotel room by yourself even if you are 'playing the invisible banjo':D (think about it girls, it does look like it, and we know you all do it).

Sorry for the long post, needed to redress the balance towards mini baby bell(end) rant over.........

ding-ding - yes i heard that too.

Oblaaspop - why do you assume that we haven\'t worked for a UK charter airline? I have. Can\'t we all just stop fighting and get back to the more serious issue of those un-fairly treated ccm\'s.

Gee wiz, sorry buddy, I didn't mean to imply that I was the only person in the world that had worked UK Charter......

As you have, you will know exactly what I'm talking about, fair enough??

well, yes i do.;)

Maybe someone needs to get L**D

http://www.atforumz.com/images/smilies/popcorn.gif
http://www.ronaldreagan.com/ubb/graemlins/popcorn.gif

This is great - I thought this thread was dead - rock on!

4HP

WHAT EK MAIL BOX DROP THING?????

And why do u say about watching asses?

No point in that.

You are only as good as your last flight with EK.

Doesn\'t matter how clean your record is, for how many years. Doesn\'t matter how hard you work or how loyal you are.

If they decide your out then your out. Forget the past.

I think that has become apparent.

Goofy76....
Lets get something straight, the purser is not and WILL NEVER be in charge of the aeroplane. Never be afraid to go speak to the Captain directly if you think the purser deserves his/her arse kicked!

Opblaaspop (great name by the way), FANTASTIC long post.

Mr. Ree and everyone else who CAN see the wood for the trees, can't agree more.

We've got some fantastic cabin crew in this airline, unfortunately an enigma has arisen whereby few stick together and because of childish banter by someone who got shagged by someone who never called back because he shagged someone else, flight deck are ALL sexist pigs. Individuals would rather become Samsonite diners (read pot noodles) staring at the CNN screens all over the world on layovers than living a job that has so much more to offer than pushing a trolley at 40 000 feet!

I'm gonna put my foot in it, if we're ever gonna recover A LOT more people need to be fired because whether you believe it or not, your attitude outside the aircraft reflects on your attitude in the aircraft.

Couldn't agree more. Not saying that EVERYONE, EVERYNIGHT should be out on the piss, but like Opblaaspop says, having worked UK charter and seen the fun and team building that goes on down route, it makes the flights way more easier. The truth is that although it's great to announce the 9 languages spoken on todays flight, the culture divide/backgrounds/intelligence difference between many crew, means working together as a team can be a struggle. Standards and knowledge amongst crew varies tremendously. This was proved on a flight recently when we called the mid galley and asked the girl who answered to look out of the window and check to see if the left wing was still attached. We could hear the laughter from the galley and latter she came up to say hello. We did the same to the rear galley ( girl barely spoke English) and waited 5 minutes before receiving a call. What a relief it was when she told us the wing was still there! Needless to say, she wasn't one of the social visitors during the trip.:rolleyes:

Try it next time,you'll be amazed! There again.........

At the (absolutely enormous, I suspect) risk of offending everyone, let me throw in my tuppence worth on what has become the sub-subject of this thread.

Delsey diners make up a proportion of the cabin crews of every airline in the world – it’s certainly not something exclusive to EK. (In my first airline, I recall ‘I have to wash my hair’, ‘I have to get my Christmas cards written’ (in *** September!), and what topped the lot was the FA who took a sewing machine with her on an overnight.)

Call it inverse snobbery or good taste, the fact is, there are young ladies out there who have decided for one reason or another that they don’t like to socialize with tech crew. In all too many cases, the one reason is no other than some pilot did ’er wrong, and by some peculiar twist of logic, all pilots are henceforth tarred with the same broad brush.

However, all that is of no consequence to the bigger problem we’ve been discussing here. The fact is - and it should make anyone in EK management uncomfortable – for too long now, we’ve been experiencing a far too heavy turnover of cabin crew. I know that there has been a school of thought quite high up in Management that this is not such a bad thing – that fresh blood, younger faces (and let’s face it, shapely, lissome bods) are exactly what the airline wants and will continue to want.

That might have had some merit in the days when EK was a small semi regional operator, but it isn’t the case any more. We need to retain experienced cabin crew, but in all too many cases, the very ones who have the get up and go EK so desperately needs to retain do just that – they get up and go, in all too many cases, after patently silly (or bloody minded) decisions from their supervisors. I’ve said for some time now that we need to consider some system of awarding a higher Grade to senior crew who stay on (which translates, of course, into ‘who are invited to stay on’), with perhaps a few extra perks thrown in, like education and medical allowance for kids, or something equally attractive to the non-marrieds. But a suggestion like that will cost money, (to which I say ‘will it really, when all things are taken into account?), so we know where that will go.

Sadly, this too high turnover results in crew working First and Business Class who just shouldn’t be there – at least not yet in their careers. (My record is because of no-show crew and late callouts, a Grade 2 just three weeks out of training school working FC – on an 8 day trip.) With the best will in the world, a kid not long out of Neasdon Comprehensive or Penrif ‘igh isn’t ready to work First Class. Quite recently I sat in Row 3 of a full First Class cabin and, (I can only assume, along with every other passenger in the cabin), was treated to a far too detailed account of the recent events in the love life of the Grade 1 sitting in her jump seat at L1 as the aircraft made its approach for landing.

Last row in Business class in an A345 on a mostly night time13+ hour sector? Rest? Forget it. Between talking amongst themselves and (it seemed to me) constantly crashing the bins in the Business Class galley back into their stowage places (with absolutely no attempt to be gentle) as they prepared for the breakfast service, the crew kept everyone in at least the last row of Business Class awake.

I’ve had the occasional flight where the service to the cockpit has been near to non-existent and what has appeared has been very poor, even slapdash. It’s been my experience that if we in the cockpit are receiving poor service, you can almost guarantee the pax are receiving similar poor service. However, I have to say the opposite is usually the case, but unfortunately, the examples where it’s poor are more frequent lately.

It’s not human nature to write about what pleases you, only what upsets you. I have to say that the vast majority of EK cabin crew do a damn fine job and deserve the many awards they have received. But they are let down by the few, and not just the few poor performers on the line, but the few supervisors who have allowed those few poor performers on the line to remain in place. A good Purser is worth his or her weight in gold. It’s been my experience that a good Purser can get good results even out of an inexperienced crew. But it seems to me it can be damn hard work for the very good ones on some occasions, and for too long now, IFS Management have put two or three people back on the line after Pursers have reported incidents that should have merited at the very least, a huge kick in the tail and perhaps termination for the crewmember involved. But the faces re-appear on the line because of (I suspect) the very reasons TD has taken the rather drastic step he did in sacking his immediate subordinates – the ‘habibi factor’.

i was thinking....if i want to write my resignation letter and i HAVEN'T GOT A CCM anymore....then who the hell do i address it to?

Gee Whizz,send it to Santa.

Just off to take the Porsche for a spin,then 18 holes, a few G and Ts,at the club,a taxi to DOSC then perhaps an evening sail on my new boat.

Cheers,and dont forget to wear the right colour lipstick on your next flight.

Childish? Me ? Never?

Have fun guys(and girls) off flying soon.

Quod Boy.

Hello Boys and Gurlz!

I must say that this is an interesting development for EK.

Although I left many years ago, it is with much fond memories that I remember the time I spent in Dubai and the fun we had there or downroute.

I am unsure about the only CCS mentionned here and that is because she was truly devoted and not necessarily popular for the sake of popularity but because she did her job right. The others, got more than they deserved.

I do wonder though why some others notorious for their lack of productivity did not get the boot first. Everyone know who these are.

Over the years, I have watched EK decline in service, crew attitude has become one of total indiffernce, both on-board and off.

TD and DG are accountable for the results and perhaps it was time for decisions to be made, the same I waited for when I was there but never happened.

For the ones with a career still ahead of you, this a chance for promotions unlike in my time where only certain individuals were selected by the same who were let go now on the basis of how low they scooped or how often the made tea in the office for their CCSs'.

It is also a chance to introduce the dynamics that were missing until now.

Good luck and enjoy the flying, in a few years all that will remain are the good memories and bitter moments like these will be forgotten it is now your chance to make EK what it could be!

Hey Quad Boy, you cheese head!


Want some cheese, what did you say? I can't hear you!

What?

You suck what?

Can't make out whether he is saying the fuel feed of his nissan or taking it deep in the sun!

Must be hard being an F/O!

Never mind, I can't hear you! Call me in the office tomorrow!

Boys, most of you have it all wrong - you refer to mascarpone as "she" no woman even on a bad hair day could be as b*%chy as that. The only other person that comes close is Harold my hairdresser, maybe I should introduce them to each other and they could walk hand in hand happily into the sunset.

Sadly standards have noticeably dropped over the last year, but there are still a lot of cabin crew that are doing a sterling job, and I say a BIG thanks to them. I appreciate the hard work that goes into making it an enjoyable flight for passengers and us family members of the crew. :ok:

I agree, I always did assume cheese features was a guy (in the loosest possible terms obviously).

I didn't realise we were employing 8 year olds in the cabin!! My 5 year old daughter could write a more cohearent post than that so there, ner ner ner ner ner!!

A word of advise old chap, dont get into a slagging match with people who are a)more intelligent b)far funnier 3)much sharper and f)have a far better grasp of the English language than you, you just cant win, and you will resort to writing silly childish posts like your one above.

Now, go stand in the corner with your dunces hat on and lets hear no more about it, or we'll have to call your parents in!!
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