Emirates DECs
 

Any insight on how's been EK DECs screening, is there enough of type rated and qualified applicants?
Is EKs pilot recruitment working at a fast pace on this regard?

Cheers!

Fullforwrd....that is a goodquestion. Can somebody over there characterize the situation?

When Emirates went to a DEC, does that mean they are depserate? WIll there be any airplanes parked? Can anybody post an airplane delivery schedule over the next few years?

Does Emirates require currency? If one had a 777 rating and last flew it in 1999 is that good or bad? Would a rating actaully make any difference/ I presume Emirates would be giving a full school when one has been off of a given airplane and flying another type now. Is there a bond?

What is the time between applying and starting class? Is the pay during training less than the first year line pay?

I am more curious than anything.

How many pilots does Emirates have?

I ask these only to get a flavor because you can't get on at another company or another part of the world with someone actually being there.

In real life at Emirates,how often would one be there and for what periods of time once checked out?

From what l understand the DEC applicants are few and far between. Then there is the selection process to go through. so not all applicants will get a go.

They may be desperate, but l don't know. The hours worked each month is currently on the high side.

They are looking for Airbus guys at the moment.

The 340-300's turn up en-mass from Q2 2004

The 340-500's have started to trickle in as we speak.

The 340-600's late next year, l think.

777-300ER from Q2 2005.

If any one can correct the above please do so.

The difference between orders and deliveries may vary, but from a company document they talk about a delivery of one airframe per month till 2010.

Application for FO positions to interview can vary from a few months to two years or more as there are still thousands in the hold pool.

Your starting salary is year one pay from day one.

There are 840 pilots on the list last time l saw it, but that was a few weeks ago. l seem to only blink and another A4 list of guys has been added.

Time here is up to you. There is a three year bond for the transition.

There is all sorts of other stuff in "The Package" that if you do even a minor search of this forum you will find out about. The good, the bad and the ugly.

Good luck

halas

Thanks Jim and Halas, you're nice buddies. This Forum misses guys like you!
Further insiders are welcome!:ok:

Fullforward.....I can ask as many questions as I can answer<bg>!

But I hope PPRUNE is for exchanging views and thoughts with others who can help. Maybe sometimes people want to argue and scream,but it doesn't do any good. We should be here to help each other.

SEE YA

Jim Morehead,

It seems to me that you are looking to jump ship!

Yes, we are here at this forum to help out and exchange info but,
I think you ask a bit too much if you were not looking at EK.

I always thought you had a great time at CAL? maybe the honeymoon is over at CAL and reality sets in. A quick question for you, how come they gave you so many line checks in the month that you had been checked out and later roster you for more?

Trust me, you will see more BS at CAL.

ETOPS..good questions and I did not mean to imply anything.
I can tell you that there are not many situations out there that I would enjoy going to.

It was almost one year ago when my former company started downhill and then Filed for Bankruptcy in DEC, I recall. I started reading a lot of US and International jobs boards and publications. Although I looked at many scenarios, I only applied one place and that was CAL. That was probably because I was current on 747-400 and they had immediate openings.

From threads other forums, you would see that I became frustrated how some companies and countries would not entertain the though of Direct Entry and US ratings. Then some companies/countries required CURRENCY. Well that was not possible. My 767 ended in 1997 and 777 ended in 1999. I couldn't very well stay current in 4 airplanes.

About that time SQ had stopped hiring in all positions. That essentially left CAL. It was a natural fit for me. In fact,about 6 months before my ultimate retirement decision, I had downbid to 777 from the 747-400 to get current so I could actually have been current on two airplanes for 90 days or so. So I was planning knowing that I was 90% going to retire from UAL. That happened and the rest is history.

Some things work for some people and other things work for other people.

Now to the check ride issue. I think my timing was such that they do give all new Captains a check and some people get a consolidation check as they call it. I think that is done if you were not rated on the airplane. Then Flight Operations decided that people would have a check to SFO and ANC because of the problems these two stations had. CAL has most FOQAs at SFO/ANC/HKG as you undoubtedly know since I think you are a CAL guy. Even though I went to ANC on "my own" in my former life and even one week earlier at CAL,they still insisted I be "checked". I tried to get out of it,but was told it was a CAA requirement. I do not know whether it was retroactive to the incumbent pilots. Then they rode with me to SFO which was my annual check AND the SFO check. So actually I got one LESS ride than possible. And I think I am going to be "checkless (as in check and evaluation) for one full year.

I can tell you I am checked and overchecked,but I don't make the rules. I don't think there is any pilot who loves getting checked and observed because you always have to perform at your peak. So perhaps I can just go fly a routine line trip this week.

BTW, I am 5 hours from getting off high minimums and 1 practice C2 landing from being up with the big boys. As a CAL employee ETOPS, I am sure you know that CAL requires 100 hours PIC before getting off high minimums and letting First Officers fly. CAL often uses 2 Captains on a trip and being the relief pilot does not generate PIC time. So it has taken 255 hours to get 95 PIC.

But the good news to all of this is that I am being paid and when you write a check to the bank every month for mortgages abd bills...they like that!

On your last point, I think I know what the future holds as a CAL Captain. I am prepared for anything.

Lastly, drop me an E-mail or PM so that I can know who ETOPS is and we can further discuss this over beer. I can confirm that there is still some beer and there are still ladies of the night in the ZONE in Taipei. Perhaps you could ask for an airline discount. That was current information as of last night!

ETOPS777...Had one more thought about check rides,etc.

Just for the record, I started in May and got 30 days off without pay because of slow business and SARs for June.

I had the "short course" and it has taken a long time. In fact, it took May,July,and August to complete. In fact we get (required) to go to the fire department and earthquake simulator to get the last box checked that we did not do last June because of SARs. I don't make the rules.

But the good news is that I have a HNL layover in 2 days. I think I can find the island. I did the last time with another airline!!!

What airline is CAL for the uniformed?

CAL is CHINA Airlines. China in this thread and the Far east. CAL is headquartered in Taipei on the free island of Taiwan not to be confused with its Northwestern neighbor!

I think in North American, CAL is Continental Airlines.

For those interested, there are just over 70 applications for DEC. Recruitment normally loses about 50% of applicants when recruiting F/O’s. Will be interesting to see what percentage of DEC’s applicants we will take. Supposedly the interview and the recruitment process will be more stringent.

Approx 10 days ago I heard 40 applicants of which approx 10 were assessed suitable to do the Ek tests.
IF (big IF) that was the case then statistics would suggest maybe 20 suitable with 10-12 passing the tests.
Anyone know any more?

Have heard the interview process for DEC's will be a 5 day tea party. What the hell they do with you for 5 days is anyones guess - there are only so many "games' you can play, interviews you can take and sim rides you can do. So to get a peek in, one has to take a weeks leave to jump through the hoops - that is of course if you are employed at the time.

The process does take 5 days. The first 3 days are the normal assessment process as if you were being assessed as a First Officer, minus the Sim Check. The fourth day is for preperation for the Sim Ride which is on the 5th day. It is a Full PC on the airplane you will be a Captain on. I have been told that the standards for passing the sim ride are very high, as they should be!

I have been applying to EK for some time.
Finally i have an interview. I only have command time on the A320 and they said I would be interviewed for DEC.
I mentioned it to HR and they said that they are now looking at A320 time instead of widebody time due to poor turn out of applicants for DEC.
I was assuming I would be going for FO but apparently not.
Is there much info on the DEC process?

laury,

Sorry I don't have any info but good luck.

I'm still amazed at the EK approach when there are F/Os with medium jet command time in the company, with PPCs and company knowledge etc etc and they will still be passed over because they don't meet the new hours requirements.

Crazy!

stormcloud I think EK took the mistaken view that they would be inundated with Captain applicants type tated on A330/340 and that it would be more difficult to replace existing F/O's if they were promoted to Captain.

It would appear that A320 Captains are now in the loop for direct commands on the basis that it is little different to A330/340.

EK also know that they can afford to upset existing F/O's who are "Captive" in EK in most cases.

Years ago you could not get a direct command in SQ unless you had 3000 hours Wide Body and International experience. B757 did not count!!!

Then along came the A340 and because the SQ terms were so poor and jobs were plentiful then SQ suddenly allowed A320 Captains who were puddle jumpers to join. This whole nonsense of "Widebody Command" was then shown up to be ridiculous.

I guess because EK have shafted their current F/O's with previous command time that applications from Captains as F/O's must now be non existent except perhaps for a few 146 drivers!!

Oh so true,

As I have said in a different forum, I'm told that the F/O applications have dropped severely.

A complete fowl up!

Fantastic news.
Out of 8 candidates interviewed yesterday,only 2 found suitable.

out of the 70 or so to be interviewed that would be about 16/104, bring it on. or should I say " show me the money"

I was told they have 27 DEC's so far...........

Yeah,
And I am one of the 27. Just found out on Friday.
But I did not realise the conditions were alot less than a normal Capt at EK. Not that I expect to be treated as an EK Capt as I have not even been there 1 minute. But EK Capt's are paid about the market rate. I therefore declined the offer as I get paid slightly more in my current job. Why would I move? You have to make it attractive. Anyway after I declined the offer I was rung up by someone from EK. I think fairly senior but do not want to mentiion his name. Was asked why. I gave it to him straight, that while there are pilots out there looking for work, you should not take advantage of the situation. Look what has just happened to Silk Air. During SARS they saw an opportunity to reduce wages further (also SQ). But now Silk Air are in big problems. They have had a mass exodus and have notified their travel agents that certain services will be suspended till further notice.
I would rather have joined as an FO.
A colleague of mine, if also offered ajob will decline the offer.

Very interseting....

Thanks for your post Laury.

halas

Laury

What is your current rating?
Could you be specific about the salary? Cash and benefits how much that adds up? The number of kids is an important factor on the equation. No kids buuuu , 5 that is a good subsidy!
How long did u had to wait after you sent your Cv?

To all:
How does an average monthly schedule look like? How many days off and how many nights abroad?
How many hours?
Over time after 70, 75?
How much do you guys save, assuming your live style is not from the jet set? Meals here and there, groceries, clothing, etc.
In this society do you feel welcomed? Do people support each other if needed?
The schools have enough space for new comers? Do EK give you a hand in case you dont find a school?
What is the feeling about terrorism in the UAE?
What is the difference between the villa offered by EK and the option of the subsidy to get housing your self? (if this the case)
And any other valuable info will be wellcomed.
Thanks

Laury

Giving you the benifit of the doubt, and assuming that what you say is fact, then you have done us a great favour.

I realise that you were only looking after your own best interests, but the language you spoke is the only one EK understands. The only problem is we cant speak it. So thanks, and I hope your small input has some positive effect for us, and best of luck to you in your career.

Cop U Later

The Rev

HELLO EVERYONE

I GOT THE INFORMATION FROM EK GUYS THAT I AM ON THE FAMOUS "HOLD POOL". IT IS GONNA MAKE 2 YEARS NOW!!
I AM ICAO ATP, 11.000+ TOTAL, 6.000+ ON 767 AND CURRENT ON 737NG, ABOUT 1.800.
WHAT KIND OF PILOT THEY WANT TO BE FLYING THERE? ASTRONAUTS!!!:confused:
IS THERE ANY PROBLEM WITH SOUTH AMERICAN PEOPLE OVER THERE?
SOMEONE PLEASE, MAKE IT CLEAR TO ME.

SAFE FLITES.:cool:

WOW,
AND I FORGOT TO SAY THAT MY APPLICATION WAS FOR F.O.!!!!!!:hmm:

My dear Fish,

I hope you are fine.
I had no intetion to be shouting when I put my statement on PPRUNE.
I will try not to make this mistake on my future replys.
Take care budy!:O

Rev Dr D Yes thank Laury by all means but also people like me and a few others who highlighted the arrogance of EK thinking that rated A340 Captains such as myself would drop everything and come rushing to EK begging for a job!!

When these jobs were first advertised I thought they were short term contract jobs filling in,and that the pay would be appropriate. As soon as I saw they were looking for permanent Captains and seeing what the Payscales were I lost total interest as did many others hence EK are now ending up with egg on their faces.

I hope you all in EK end up benefitting in some way from this futile exercise.

millers

I hear your point.

The way i see it is that Laury actually came here and did the interview, got the job, and told EK directly that the package was unacceptable. That has a lot more impact than someone telling the world, via an anonymous forum, that they think the EK package is beneath them. Chances are you may not have got selected anyway, then all your chest beating would be worthless.

The statement has far more impact when it is from someone who is turning down a job offer. That is why i chose to mention Laury in dispatches and not you.

Cop U Later

The Rev

I don't think they have processed 27 yet,just started alittle over a week ago.
Good to see guys turning it down
Make it better for everyone
Correct me if I'm wrong but they start the DEC's at level 1 Capt @21000dirs/m
Of Info- O/T 400dirs/hour(capt) based on how many days in the month but @ 82. good mix of 1 day and 2-3 day trips(330) 340-500 is planned to do 5 day SYN/AKL. Bid system to change in Jan, right 5 group rotation will go to 7,this will help the DEC's as they will be at the bottem of there groups, as FO's are upgraded they will assume there spot based on DOH( only time DOH applies).
There is about 250 capt now will go to about 350 divide by 7 @50/ group, the DEC's would be in the bottem 10 in each group, that could effect you bidding.
Lifesytle in DXB is very good and safe, some find it costly and some find it about the same as where they come from. Most Capt are able to save the diff between FO and Capt, company puts in 12 % with your 5% on top of that.
Villa's are always the wild card,they get asigned and if you don't like it tuff ,take the 95K and move out on your own , most guys add about 3k/month to get somthing the family will like, that goes for buying or renting. If you buy you have to come up with 30% down/30% in 1 year/30% on closing (I think that's close).
more later

sorry make that 1st year Capt 23900/m not 21ooo

Thx
Some clarification pls:
The 12% plus the 5 just will be available in 7 years time, so I want to concentrate on the monthly payment.
Saving is the diff between Cap and Fo = 24k -17k =7k. Is a fact that u spend 17k in the most basic needs of a daily life? Sounds expensive....
About flying just tell me how many nights abroad or at home per month. The bidding will come with time.
95K per year ? Every year or just one installmanet?
How much to buy a house? Can anyone buy or depends on nationality

What is DOH?

DOH -- Date of hire

Most FO's need to spend what they make for the first 6 months, we spend @ 3000/m on food, 1000/m eating out, gas is cheap, car loan 3-4ooo/m,at least 2000/year per child for school,golf 2700/year or 425/m your wife can get the same deal.Thing like TV and sound systems and additional funriture eats up the cash at first.

The 12 % plus 5% starts from day one(Idon't think DEC's will be any different) you have to wait 7 years do take 100% of what the company puts in,before that is a lesser amount but can't think of it yet. 17K - 2k( fo 5%) = 15000-3000-3000-abit more and you are not saving much and like I said the first 6 months there is other things for the villa.


95K /year if you like to use for rent or buy.
To buy a villa ie: lakes 1.2 to 1.5mil you can go way higher
An apartment ie:greens @ 6-900000

To rent in the Lakes 4 bedroom aroud 120K + utilties

The new bidding system I am told will only allow 4 days off in a row, I spend at most 6 nights away ie: am dep to the EU 24ish off back the next evening 14-16hrs credit 80 hour month.
There is longer layovers but guys then to want those by choice.
This month one layover the rest long day turns 8-10hrs/day

I have been asked to attend an interview for a DEC position.

I just noticed the comment in "Laury's" post that the pay is "a lot less than a "normal" EK Captain's pay".

Is it not the same pay scale/benefits etc., except starting at the bottom rung? Could someone please clarify this for me.

Mack Number, that is correct. First rung Captains salary.

In regard to the provident fund, I am pretty sure that if you left under 7 years you would get everything. However, the company is not under any obligation give it all to you. Their obligation would be to give you back your contributions (the 5% that was yours - although that might be worth little on past performance!) and the Governments legal end of service benefit which I am not sure of sorry. It is something like 2-3 weeks salary per year of service. This is of course less than the 12% they were paying on your behalf, but they cannot legally give you less than this.

sandpit-Thank you for clarifying that for me. I'm young enough to be there a lot more than 7 years. I guess it's the retired 55 yr. olds that have to worry about any 7 year cut off for the provident fund. No problem for me starting at the bottom rung of the Captain's payscale-it's what I expected.

AlfaMike-Yes, I am A340 rated.

Hello everyone

I was told that school for the kids should be a hard time to find in Dubai area. I have two, 14 and 11. I am afraid I would be not able to afford american neither british schools there. Any information on the E.I.S.? Does the education allowance cover it?

ThanX 'n' safe flites.

NG
:cool:

Schools...

The School allowance is basically tailored to E.I.S. Ie. they cover it. However, according to EK policy you are required to cover a minimum of 5% yourself. Just got our two kids into EIS. They are full in some classes. Availability exists in others. EK will help you to put "the pressure" on the school if they don't take your kids though. At EIS the EK kids "jump" the que even.

:cool: Tajfa

Hi,
as a co- pilot I can save around the 7000 Dhs/month mark. The money isn't a vast amount, slightly more than I made in the Uk. It would be very easy to try and live beyond one's means in Dubai, thus I always try to remember Champagne lifestyle, lemonade money,
Rgds

saving in DXB
 

Chokdee
Chokdee
Hi you save 7K /m. How many are in your family?
Did you take the villa from EK or did you take the 95k housing allowance to look for your self regarding houses.
Are ALL the schools full?
What is beside American or British school?

All of you out there:
Any no type rated, no wide body experience captain called for interview?

Mach Number:
How long did it take to get the interview from the date you applied?

Fatbus:
Thanks for all the info. I sent you a private message but it seams you did not get it check it out. How many are in your family?
Again thanks for sharing the info with an outsider

Happy LNGS!

Hi,
co pilots get 85000 dhs towards their housing allowance if they opt out of the company offer. I chose to stay in the company accomodation which I am really pleased with. I have a young baby, so no school yet, but would expect to save less as the kids arrive !.
Rgds.