With you all the way Mick.

Crazy

Mick Jager
CAL or EVA does not pay a whole lot more than EK! When you are on the road you are paid USD 2 per hour for the time away from base. There is no educational allowance nor provident funds and the housing allowance is between USD 1000 to 1500 depending on the contract you've signed.

Job security is worse than you have at EK. People here thinking that CAL or EVA have better terms and conditions than EK need to think twice!!!! PM me if you all need more.


cheers

thank you to the last few posters who took the time to clarify what is happening there.

Hours are some measure of ability,but just piling up hours doesn't mean much.

I also find it interesting worldwide in some places that not being current appear to be a "big deal". Every airline is going to make you go through THEIR training program. While I have not flown a 777 or 767 in a few years, it would not take long to requalify. There is a great commonality between Boeings.

But I am not looking for a job. It appears to me that the job propects are better a year later than last year when I was looking.

I went back and saw the posting by ETOPS777.

Unless I put the wrong information in my handheld pocket calculator, EK paid way less than CAL. Of course, one has to take apples and apples. Most recently, many of the CAL guys are exceeding 70 hours which is the only guarantee. And sometimes CAL does cancel a flight and you lose the pay to the minimum 70 hours.

I have looked at the EK website a few times after the DEC Captain program started. I only calculated about $7000/month for a 777 Captain. Maybe that is the base number for the minimum hours,but if that is correct and that is the pay, it is substantially less than CAL is paying.

Now I agree that CAL does not pay for educational funds to educate children. So if you have kids and that is important, you either don't apply, pay it yourself, or commute as most of the people do.

I think that some airlines out there did or do pay more than the CAL housing allowance. But again it just depends what standard you want and whether you have a house of kids or any expensive demanding wife.

I am waiting to be convinced.

Latest EK Salary for DEC's dated 16th Dec states "Attractive tax free salaries will be discussed at interview"

Looks to me as if one can now negotiate at interview as to what it would take to get one to join???

SQ captain who's interviewed with EK tells me that the start point for DEC's is sixth year salary increment.

The way things are going in SQ I think afterall I had better dust off my A340 Manuals!

Perhaps a 5 day break in Dubai would be therapeutic as the climate is nice at this time of year.

Emirates: Tecchnical exam
 

Hi.I am one of the prospective DEC guys trying to get a job with EK.I have an imminent interview.Has anyone got a bunch of sample questions (and answers!!) from the technical exam presented at the interview?

Dorman

By all means come to Dubai and try and get a job, I wish you luck. But if you think you are going to get some assistance from the guys here, then I would say you have misinterpreted the situation.

Cop U Later

The Rev

Amen to that Reverend!

Reverend What a terrible way to talk as a man of the cloth.!

Not a very charitable reply from a cleric especially at this time of Christmas :ok:

Been in DXB less than 10 years and this is the lowest I have felt. My plans to work at EK for the next 20+ years have been drastically changed.

I know it will eat away at me over the coming years (as it will to others too) so it can only go downhill from now.

If nothing is done on the 21st by the pilot's attending via a strong turnout, mission statement and show of hands then we are absolutely screwed!! This is our Alamo!!!

Finally, be clear in what we say but don't turn the 21st into a shouting match or they (management) will shut us out for good.

:*

brownoser If you EK Pilots don't behave yourselves and do as you are told and accept everthing that is thrown at you by your management then we in Singapore will despatch the Senile Minister to deal with you "big Ego Pilots":ouch:

No point dispatching a ploitician to Dubai to ban something that is already illegal. Best warm up the KY gel. I feel it coming on again. :hmm:

Brownoser, your last point is all important; the guys at the meeting MUST keep their cool and put their points forward in a logical & non-emotive manner. Let's hope management does the same.

The other major point is that of "numbers". I hope that every EK pilot in Dubai on 21st will make the effort to attend the meeting. To not do so is saying "bring on the ky!"

EK is in crisis, and this is obviously the opportunity management has to demonstrate how they intend to go on from here, and into the forseeable future. If they choose to do so with a loyal, motivated and safe flight ops department, then we should see some major positive changes come out of this meeting. On the other hand, if they choose to go blindly ahead into this massive expansion without addressing these crisis issues then I have only two words.......Gulf Air. And I pray I'm wrong!

To EK management......PLEASE stand by the people who have helped build your airline to where it is today; you wouldn't be enjoying your present success without them.

Fingers crossed!

EK in crisis?
The only 'crisis' at EK is the egos of the F/O's who, having been naive enough to believe, that direct entry Captains were not in the cards in the first place.

It had to happen...and it did.
All this prior talk about 'we must maintain our standards' and 'only we know how to operate in the Gulf'...what a bunch of nonsense.

Yes, it would indeed seem that the 'junior' guys need direction, and it will come from DEC's, courtesy of management who have finally come to the conclusion that these 'senior' guys are really needed.

Funny isn't it 411 how many of these "experienced" guys who are applying are dropping out at the sim evaluation, for various reasons such as ignoring GPWS in IMC below MSA etc etc....

Besides it's not just a bunch of pissed off F/O's - who as you don't seem to understand are all very experienced pilots before joining EK. It's also all of the 6 year and below captains and trainers who will get paid less than DEC's. I suggest you keep your opinions where they aren't wanted - ie back in 'lil old arizona:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

411a is in his own little world (USA) and has no idea about the depth of the FO body at EK

"...depth of the FO body at EK...".

Deep alright, in deep doggie do-do.

And of course DE Captains are going to be paid more, has always been thus in the Middle East.

Been there, done that.
Pity those that joined before never knew the score. Like I mentioned, naive.:ooh:

Mark that post above well lads:

Should you ever become a pompous, asinine, bitter and twisted individual, motivated solely by schadenfreude, having reached that 'certain age' and have no real accomplishments other than a crop of piles and logbooks, you too might make a splenetic and pissy little post like that.

What you probably wouldn't do, unless addled to an extravagant degree, is to publish that same juvenalia a thousand times over.

Avert your eyes, crippled individual passing.

C´mon guys!
Easy on 411...after all we´re on Holydays time...

The hardest you beat him, the more he certainly LOL. How can you be so naive? His provocative (but more realistic than generally supposed) posts has the main purpose of make fun from all that political correctness...playing the role of kind of a Devil´s advocate.
And, let´s face the facts: the ball now is on management´s hands. For sad and unfair it could mean to all of us.

Spot on fullforward...devils advocate.
Now of course the EK management could have avoided all this unpleasantness by doing their hiring just slightly differently, for example, the way SV did during the very early eighties, when 747's were added to the fleet.
At that time SV was operating 16 TriStars, and when the 747's arrived, all of the TriStar Captains/First Officers/Flight Engineers were move up accordingly, which left a rather large void on the TriStar fleet.
Their solution was to hire direct entry Captains and First Officers (as well as Flight Engineers) and train these folks on the Lockheed equipment.
This has the advantage of...
Having the aircraft operated their way,
Allowed those already there to move up to senior equipment,
And, filled the seats with previously qualified pilots who had a proven record of accomplishment.
An added advantage (from my perspective) was that SV did not allow any military experience into the equation (except for Professional Flight Engineers).
Captains hired directly onto the TriStar.
First Officers hired, with no promises whatsoever of being upgraded to Command (altho a few were, ten years later after moving to the RHS of the 747 later on, after the TriStar).

No hard feelings...no unkept promises, and rather large tax-free paychecks for all.

EK could have done the same, but apparently choose not to do so. Now EK management(?) is in the untenable position of having to deal with guys who have been lied to....never a satisfactory arrangement.

ek managment in the moment is like a pilot who is not ahead of his own aircraft because someone else (the goverment) is pushing the trottle forward.
the chairmen had in the past years, because of the aviation situation, plenty of opportunitys to shop and buy cheap a/c all over the place.
unfortunately our top guys were afraid to speak up and stopp that process for a while in order to catch up with recruiting and tranining.
i believe, even if we would have, according to managment, enough "suitable" f/o´s available for upgrade, even then the company would be unable to cope with the present situation.
there is just not enough time to crew our aircrafts.
on top all this restrictions they put on their own upgradings.
why do we need 3 years in the rh seat?
that started the whole misery in the beginning. 2 years would be more than reasonable to get to know the airline and their ways of doing things.
it is just a fixing that is going on, a reacting to the undoubtly impressive expansion. it is not an acting we would need.
on top the way they play the so called crm to us.
it is very sad to see that some of our managers have absolutely no proper way of communicating with us.
taking the whole situation, they could have told us they whole deal upfront before we read it on websites or get it from forums.
it still would have had quite an impact on us, but i am sure a different one.
it sadens me to experience this relationsship with the company and i as well thought that that would be the last company i would work for.

so in the monent our 777 f/o´s are stuck because the next 777 come in 2005. no crosstraining upgrading allowed.
would it help if 777 captains volunteer on the airbus now?
it could reduce the number of DEC or even open up DEC on the 777. i don´t know.
any thoughts?

Guys

I know this is slightly off thread but I have been invited for an interview (F/O not DEC) at the end of January and not being a young whipper snapper any more what is (by general consensus) a realistic time to the left hand seat?

Also, judging by the emails that I have received from the recruitment department asking how much notice I need to give in days(!), I would say that they may be a bit desperate. Are things really that bad? Is it worth going?

Cheers for now.

Hi Scud!

Congrats and good luck on the interview.
Well, considering the thousands of previous posts, one can assume that nobody is sure about nothing on EK, except the fact this is a fast growing airline.
Do your search and you will assume 4-5 years is a good and realistic bet.

Happy 2004!

Scud,

Think long and bloody hard regarding what your about to do. !!
Just be patient, the industry is turning around again thank goodness after all this time and more "appropriate" life style choices will be available.

Scud,
when you join EK will hire about 100 DEC and you will have about 500 F/O's in front of you? make it min 7 but more realistic 8+ years.
if you would have joined 2 years ago it would have been a different story.
Good luck

If you are out of work, you have nothing to loose.
Never give up a good job for greener pastures, it dosent exist!!

I have just joined EK having come from a reasonable charter job in northern europe, I would think very carefully about coming out here as the grass definately isn't greener on the other side.

You do get to see some interesting places aroung the world, but as with most airlines the management don't give a toss about you, and Dubai is a very expensive place to live in, and pay rises are non existent.

The place is full of people from the sub continent who basically hate you, and to say that there are some vain western expats around here would be a huge understatement, do not expect to feel welcom when you arrive.

However the weather is nice, good food, interesting places to visit and a few other things, BUT choose carefully.

.....i'll have a lie down now.:cool:

Thanks for the insight guys. Lots to think about.

Scud

Scudrunner, don't even comtemplate Emirates. Its possibly the worst thing I have ever done and now find it very hard to go anywhere else. I came from LHS job in the UK, was promised the world like many of my friends and then had the rules changed. You can't negotiate with management it is a 'take it or leave' attitude and crisis management as well.
The best thing you can do is stay where you are, no matter how bad it seems it is better than EK.

:mad:

Nicely put mini cooper...

Scud, only come here if your current outfit is going down the toilet and there is no, zero, nada for you else to choose.

Worst choice I ever got conned into...:mad:

Scud. Are EK paying for your Dubai ticket to attend interview? I believe DECs are being sponsered to come here for interview. The rest of us had to pay to get here. Silly us...
:ouch:

Backwater,

Do you enjoy the A330? Where are your favorite layovers? Do guys like the A330 better than the 777? Much appreciated.

DD. Three questions? I'll do my best...
1. Yes
2. Easier to ask where are my LEAST favourite layovers! Everybody seems to be avoiding Accra - no one wants to contract malaria for some unknown reason :rolleyes: . Casablanca, despite the romance is not popular amongst the expats...
Large and expanding route network. It's not hard to bid for and get your preferred destinations, within reason.
3. 777 vs Airbus? Been done to death already. 777 guys like the 777, Airbus guys like the airbus. There are exceptions to prove this rule!

Now I have a question for you. Why, given the subject of this thread, are you interested in Emirates?

Compliments of the season.
UAE

Applying the same logic, those applicants who are successful will of course forfeit their right to complain when said management duly turn around and screw them at some future date!:ooh:
Most of the anger around here is not directed at fellow operators...

Backwater,

I fly for a US Major and have always been an airline afficianado. I have seen your airplanes at Gatwick, and have always wondered about the lifestyle in Dubai etc... Mainly airline curiosity. Thank you for the reply and I will probably ask more questions eventually.

Wow, what an eye opener this has been after a month or so absence off Pprune.

I'm currently at Air Canada (320 FO) with an interview date early in the new year. Sounds like I should hang tough and wait for AC to come out of CCAA before deciding to move the family to Dubai (assuming a successful interview :ok: ) based on the general feeling i.e. DECs etc.

Any more insight appreciated!

Cheers.

320,

I would say in this relative world, most do not realize how bad things are at AC. I would most definitely be packing my bags for the Sand, especially as an FO on the 320.

Wouldn't even blink

Good luck:cool:

Hello Gentleman,

I have received a DEC hold pool email back in October. I have not as yet received an interview offer. I am reading with interest of course, all of the comments on this thread.

I have always assumed that these types of airlines hiring ex-pat crews would basi-cally do what they want, or need to do. This is why I applied for a DEC position back in July of 2003, prior to the announcement for DEC positions. When I went back a few months later and filled in the flight times fully, I received the hold pool email.

I am 330 rated and current, also 3000 pic 320, along with various other narrowbody airliner PIC time, along with some FO time.

Are DECs looked down upon for taking the job? It is not a pilot’s fault that the situa-tion has evolved the way it has here. People simply want to rise to an opportunity.