SirTimAlRedha

That’s where you’re wrong.

I’m pro Me and my family 👍🏼

Just because I correct someone and they acknowledge, how does that make me pro-EK? Even if I was? What does it matter to you?

Run your own race, worry about yourself and things you can control. Don’t worry about what others are doing.

Themeatfleet

Tui in the U.K. have done the right thing. The pilots and management have come to an agreement where there’s no redundancy and everyone takes a paycut, including the management and no attacks on the terms and conditions.

Pilots return to their old salary in a phased manner as demand returns.

The pilots are very happy with the way we’ve been treated by our management.

Seniority and unions aren’t saving other airlines either, it’s about having a good relationship and mutual respect.

The Ts and Cs of unpaid leave, should anyone volunteer, are clear in the email. I don't think that this can be a justified gripe should there be anyone taking UL!

WK. What did you expect after the show they put on during round I and II? They don't give a rats ass about anyone or anything. If no volunteers, they ll make a list of 'chosen ones' with a clear message...take it or ur out....that is, if they don't skip this step and put up show number III....
and unless you're local...nobody is safe.....

​​​​​​.... still rather to be unsafe.

I didn't expect anything different. If you do volunteer then it's very clear what your medical cover is. If you are volunteered then it's a very different thing!

The unpaid leave is a joke
first of calling the medical cove an insurance is a joke
a insurance has a premium to be paid a year ( which would have been, given the size of the company, by far cheaper then the hole pay per case model executed right now
EK health cover is not an insurance, it’s a company paid cover- that’s why they try to make is as hard as possible to get your case covered - in the aftermath it will be used as pressure point or execution rule as somebody who uses the cover to be blamed as it produces costs - yet alone the operation of the ek Clinc alone could have covered large part of the premium insurance saving the cost of the entire medical department- but it would rule out the ability to control the sickness of the individual
a typical wrong decision made by a manager which produced costs now put on the employees.
given the fact that a deal of 65000 employees with a large insurance company would have been a cost saver by getting an amazing deal, saving the costs of an entire department. And taking out a handful of people compared to the size would not have changed anything in the premium costs.
as a company it is completely irrational to think you are better of the pay the medical cover by your self rather than putting those employees in a big pot in a named insurance company where the costs are shared over millions.
its the classic case of refusing to take the responsibility of an agreement - the contract says medical insurance(cover) and if you are employed- on unpaid leave (it’s still a form of employment) or not - it’s a contractual duty to provide that cover -
Unpaid leave means only you don’t get a salary not being refused to receive your contractual benefits - otherwise the definition is wrong -> it’s a lay-off with return

Wb1900.

last sentence means you fully get it. Its a llayoff with a return. I would use the chance to pull the family out and prepare for the next chapter....At least there's a return ticket. An offer they didn't do in previous rounds...

Well you do have a point there....
Still they see us as laughing stock...on 50pct salary for 6 months...

So basically they can justify anything they say by putting it in an email, despite a contractual responsibility and we should be grateful? So the way that they have made thousands redundant is justified no matter the rational behind it because they put it in an email. We and our families were contractually covered for medical whilst employed by the company. Unpaid leave is still employment. They are willing to cover passengers but not their own employees, I wonder if the savings from the employees and their families health premiums will be used to pay towards the insurance premium for passengers?

Look what they did to the cabin crew and their medical expenses the other year. They suddenly had to pay I believe 30% towards health related incidents, against their contracts until they mutinied in Town Hall meetings. Well done to the CC because they at least had the balls to stand up for themselves.

Putting it in an email doesn’t make anything right, it just demonstrates the level they are willing to sink to. As has been said its a voluntary layoff with a return, unless they change that by email and then it once again becomes ‘justified’.

the point is they don’t pay a premium for employees
the just pay the bill - for employees there is no insurance involved - I for myself I am not even sure if there is a big insurance for pax
EASA mandates a certain amount of insurance coming with the AOC- question is does the GCAA demand the same
it more likely they have only a very small daily based occurrence insurance but nothing in place for big events as they are rather unlikely in terms of risk managment estimates.
again this why the only paid a small amount to each pax on 521 and why it becomes harder and harder to get a proper intime treatment by the doctors, nearly impossible without approval or pay and claim to be refused afterwards - health became a cost position in the financial year report which can be saved if you put enough pressure on the employees- for sure is also everybody how uses sick days has now a target on his back - and now we are back to square one where the remaining people should ask about safety and the worthiness of having your family and yourself down here

It does appear more and more that there is a substantial medical expense on the companies balance sheet. That is hardly surprising since they had tens of thousands of employee’s, however these expenses are then focused on the ones that needed medical assistance. It is blatantly obvious the major criteria for redundancy was some form of medical expense, be it surgery or cancer. Merely getting rid of these ‘sickies’ doesn't say anything for future medical expenses with the remaining staff. All it does is reduce any reported sickness and means people are flying with conditions that they legally shouldn’t be at work for, including COVID-19 in todays pandemic world order. Hardly a safety culture, and I am surprised If other aviation authorities are not looking on with critical eyes.

Other authorities should have been looking at lots of practices at EK well before Covid 19, particularly the so called safety culture which was and even more so now criminal to say the least. Unfortunately, the travelling public only cares about cheap tickets and convenient connections and foreign governments only care about political affiliations and pay lots of lip service to actual safety and standards!

out of interest
where do all these ASRs are going to- in any country where the authority is independent of the airline such an amount of ASRs would raise a serious concern, as this is a offical tool to report an airlines safety culture - all of that said leaves only one conclusion of an obvious fact, that all those ASRs are simple wiped under the carpet and never reach the authority unless it is really serious, or initiated by a foreign authority. Image how the British authority would react when there is hundred of ASRs flying in every week stating things they do here - leaves a lot of questions out on the streets and it’s very likely this reports are less shared to audits then those from other airlines where only real safety relevant things are reported.

my bet
75 is the new 100 effecting provident fund and in future the housing allowance will be regulated very much different than today -even for existing contracts ( whatever existing contract had in meaning before as it kept changing without consensus)

whatdoesthisbuttondo

totally agree
a union is not the wonder which makes an airline great
i worked for one which had no union and it was great unfortunately the same airline does not exist anymore but the management was mostly in sensible way towards the employees
a union does not makes things necessarily better, but they help if managers have no empathy at all

unpaind leave is one thing, but losing all benefit for e.g. medical and school allowance is a hard one because that all goes than very deep into your pocket and at the end they might deduct the housing when you return and this is way to deep putting the weight on the employees shoulders

In this case they can. Because. You. Have. Been. Told. In. Advance..... I'm NOT referring to anything else.

Unpaid leave - I think most of us pilots are struggling with 50% pay cut and just trying to keep our heads above water financially speaking! We cannot afford unpaid leave now.

With little flying the cabin crew are struggling as well, the majority of their income comes from their flying pay. The feeling amongst the cabin crew I've talked to is that after what has happened so far, the company cannot be trusted. They feel if you take unpaid leave, then you are making yourself more likely to be sacked i.e. if you're in Dubai then at least you're available to work if needed.

Maybe if EK had tried unpaid leave earlier before they started axing people, some might have taken it, but now I think its unlikely anyone will.

PS can anyone confirm a "rumour" that lots of locals have had loans paid off by UAE government? (it also happened back in January 2012 and made the press - see Arabian business news item - google it if interested)

Maybe that's why it doesn't exist anymore - too nice to the staff. EK treats everyone like **** and does well out of it.

Time to accept the truth: they did things the way they did because it makes some kind of financial sense to them even if they didn't explain it to the staff. They don't have to explain it to anyone. They could do whatever they want just like they always have been able to. People seem to struggle with this and dig themselves deeper into victim status this way. The way to not be a victim is to take ownership of your situation and not empower them by bemoaning the actions they took with regard to your lives. Much healthier that way. The music stopped, not everyone had a chair. Life goes on. Good luck.