Virgin or Emirates
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Virgin or Emirates
Gents,
I know that this subject has been done to death, but in a similar vein as last years BA vs. EK thread, I was wondering if any of you EK drivers wouldn’t mind commenting.
I am presently at Virgin Atlantic and my interview with Emirates is looming. I have 4 years with Virgin, F/O, 35 and single. Although Virgin isn’t what I would class as a National flag carrier, it isn’t a bad way of life, routes are good, staff travel excellent, ongoing pay negotiations are, ongoing, and time to command, with very little predicted expansion, is anybody’s guess. (Realistically 7 to 9 years in my case).
Having trawled around the recent threads, it appears that negative comments regarding Emirates seems to be problems with accommodation, 7 years to command, cost of living in UAE increasing, salary being devalued by the currency exchange and lack of pay rise for many years. Would this be a fair assessment?
Having been to Dubai on several occasions, albeit only on holiday, what is the reality like of living there for a single guy, and is it realistic to contemplate staying there for the rest of my career.
I would really appreciate any input that may paint a clearer picture and help me with my thought process should I be successful.
Many thanks and safe flying.
I know that this subject has been done to death, but in a similar vein as last years BA vs. EK thread, I was wondering if any of you EK drivers wouldn’t mind commenting.
I am presently at Virgin Atlantic and my interview with Emirates is looming. I have 4 years with Virgin, F/O, 35 and single. Although Virgin isn’t what I would class as a National flag carrier, it isn’t a bad way of life, routes are good, staff travel excellent, ongoing pay negotiations are, ongoing, and time to command, with very little predicted expansion, is anybody’s guess. (Realistically 7 to 9 years in my case).
Having trawled around the recent threads, it appears that negative comments regarding Emirates seems to be problems with accommodation, 7 years to command, cost of living in UAE increasing, salary being devalued by the currency exchange and lack of pay rise for many years. Would this be a fair assessment?
Having been to Dubai on several occasions, albeit only on holiday, what is the reality like of living there for a single guy, and is it realistic to contemplate staying there for the rest of my career.
I would really appreciate any input that may paint a clearer picture and help me with my thought process should I be successful.
Many thanks and safe flying.
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3 years ago I would have said join EK but you missed the best time to join EK.
If you are single you have more fun with virgin, I think it's not worth it to give up your lifestyle for a little more money which you'll spend on EK staff travel anyway.
If you are single you have more fun with virgin, I think it's not worth it to give up your lifestyle for a little more money which you'll spend on EK staff travel anyway.
I Agree with CapaeAviation
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You seem to have a good grip on what the major problems are here. One you didn't mention was lack of representation. As you said your ongoing pay negotiations are ongoing. Ours are non existent, and there is no chance of ever having any unless better jobs become available that we can use as leverage.
Lifestyle wise, there are very few people with emirates who wish to stay here for the rest of their career. I will qualify that with most people want to be out of this type of aviation by the time they are fifty or so. It seems to me that the amount of back of the clock flying we do with two crews and no crew rest facilities must have a significant impact on your longterm health.
I am not from europe but obviously i fly with many who are and it is fair to say that many from the UK have three main points (which i agree with) that make the UAE (not emirates) worthwhile. The weather is good, the cost of living is lower than UK (but constantly on the rise) and good education (if you can get a place in the right schools) is more affordable than in the UK.
The Rev
Lifestyle wise, there are very few people with emirates who wish to stay here for the rest of their career. I will qualify that with most people want to be out of this type of aviation by the time they are fifty or so. It seems to me that the amount of back of the clock flying we do with two crews and no crew rest facilities must have a significant impact on your longterm health.
I am not from europe but obviously i fly with many who are and it is fair to say that many from the UK have three main points (which i agree with) that make the UAE (not emirates) worthwhile. The weather is good, the cost of living is lower than UK (but constantly on the rise) and good education (if you can get a place in the right schools) is more affordable than in the UK.
The Rev
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Easyglider My advice to you is stay where you are. As the Rev rightly said salaries in ex-pat airlines are non negotiable and as these airlines source Pilots from all over the world these days there is always someone whose country,currency or airline is in deep s**t so they don't have to pay huge salaries to get them and they know that those who have already joined can moan all they like but at the end of the day we are all stuck with the situation and are unable to move on anywhere else.
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I'm in a similar position to EasyGlider but slightly higher up the seniority list at Virgin and married (no kids). I've already had my Emirates interview and am waiting for a course date but I haven't resigned from Virgin yet. So, I've been following all the Emirates bashing (and occasional praise) with a lot of interest. I too have been to Dubai on holiday several times but agree that living there is likely to be very different.
It seems to me that moving from Virgin to Emirates isn't going to transform your finances:- you aren't going to become a millionaire overnight and be able to retire by the time you're 40. But, I'm sick of ultra long haul, heavy crew flying and constantly battling for landings. I certainly don't want to be doing nothing but that for the next 20 years. Yes, I'm also sick of the English climate and taxes.
I'd probably get a command quicker if I stayed at Virgin but I'm taking a long term view. I'm sure the golden days at Emirates are over, just as they are at Cathay. And Virgin. But it's not just about the money, it's about the kind of flying you want to do and, dare I say it, lifestyle.
Finally, I know of a number of people who have left/are leaving Virgin to go to Emirates but I don't know of anybody who has gone the other way. That must mean something?
Waiting to be shot down by the vetrans of the UAE - be gentle with me, this is my first post!
EasyGlider- if you want to have a chat about the interview, send me a private message.
It seems to me that moving from Virgin to Emirates isn't going to transform your finances:- you aren't going to become a millionaire overnight and be able to retire by the time you're 40. But, I'm sick of ultra long haul, heavy crew flying and constantly battling for landings. I certainly don't want to be doing nothing but that for the next 20 years. Yes, I'm also sick of the English climate and taxes.
I'd probably get a command quicker if I stayed at Virgin but I'm taking a long term view. I'm sure the golden days at Emirates are over, just as they are at Cathay. And Virgin. But it's not just about the money, it's about the kind of flying you want to do and, dare I say it, lifestyle.
Finally, I know of a number of people who have left/are leaving Virgin to go to Emirates but I don't know of anybody who has gone the other way. That must mean something?
Waiting to be shot down by the vetrans of the UAE - be gentle with me, this is my first post!
EasyGlider- if you want to have a chat about the interview, send me a private message.
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Big Geordie
You are correct in all that you are saying. I don't know of any guys that have left here to go to Virgin, I know a few guys who have come from Virgin to here. That doesn't mean that Emirates turned out as they thought (Just ask the guys who got shafted with this years profit share) it probably means that it isn't so bad that it is worth going back to Virgin. If you ask them whether they honestly think they are better off, i reckon you would get a split decision based on personal circumstances.
Dont be fooled by the tax thing. The amount of tax you are paying is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how much you have left at the end of the month. By that I mean how much you have left to invest, because investing well is your only way out of here. The provident fund is unlikely to see you safely into retirement.
It sounds great that we get our housing and education paid for. That is until you work out that if the company didn't cover those things you would be working for almost nothing (Accom costing around 12,000dhs a month, and education for 2 kids about 2,000 a month would take a fair bit out of your 16000 starting pay). That gives you a fair indication of cost of living. Having said that, if you dont intend to have kids, and your wife can pick up a reasonable job, say 10,000 a month, then you should be on easy street.
We do have a good mix of flying within the company, but most people here on my fleet have lost interest in flying in much the same fashion as you have. Although we dont have to fight for the landings, we still do our share of long haul, more than our share of back of the clock, and way more than is reasonable of minimum rest layovers. The only time we have more than 24hrs is when the service is less than daily. We have several layovers less than 24hrs (12 hrs and 18hrs) after flying all night, followed by another night flight. I can only assume that when we start ulta long haul, the layovers will be min rest also.
It stands to reason that if you want to be part of a profitable airline and the stability that it brings in unstable times, then this is the price you have to pay. Just dont think it will be particularly better than what you have, just different.
Another thing worth mentioning at this time of unrest is the fact that you will be living amongst peoples who do not particularly like you. It is fair to say Dubai is by far the most moderate of ME cities, but it would be folly to suggest that it is an island of tolerance in a region not known for it. Nobody here is pressing the panic button, but there is a large number of families taking the opportunity to go home for the school holidays if you get my drift.
Now just say things got really unpleasant here because of the current regional tensions. What then. We can't leave because there are no jobs, but we may not want to stay.
As i have said before, there is far more to the decision to come here than just taxes and sunshine. Give it careful consideration, make your D and dont look back.
The Rev
P.S the figures i quoted on accom are based on getting an equivalent villa in an similar location to what the company offers. You can get much cheaper if you look farther afield and/or opt for something smaller.
You are correct in all that you are saying. I don't know of any guys that have left here to go to Virgin, I know a few guys who have come from Virgin to here. That doesn't mean that Emirates turned out as they thought (Just ask the guys who got shafted with this years profit share) it probably means that it isn't so bad that it is worth going back to Virgin. If you ask them whether they honestly think they are better off, i reckon you would get a split decision based on personal circumstances.
Dont be fooled by the tax thing. The amount of tax you are paying is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how much you have left at the end of the month. By that I mean how much you have left to invest, because investing well is your only way out of here. The provident fund is unlikely to see you safely into retirement.
It sounds great that we get our housing and education paid for. That is until you work out that if the company didn't cover those things you would be working for almost nothing (Accom costing around 12,000dhs a month, and education for 2 kids about 2,000 a month would take a fair bit out of your 16000 starting pay). That gives you a fair indication of cost of living. Having said that, if you dont intend to have kids, and your wife can pick up a reasonable job, say 10,000 a month, then you should be on easy street.
We do have a good mix of flying within the company, but most people here on my fleet have lost interest in flying in much the same fashion as you have. Although we dont have to fight for the landings, we still do our share of long haul, more than our share of back of the clock, and way more than is reasonable of minimum rest layovers. The only time we have more than 24hrs is when the service is less than daily. We have several layovers less than 24hrs (12 hrs and 18hrs) after flying all night, followed by another night flight. I can only assume that when we start ulta long haul, the layovers will be min rest also.
It stands to reason that if you want to be part of a profitable airline and the stability that it brings in unstable times, then this is the price you have to pay. Just dont think it will be particularly better than what you have, just different.
Another thing worth mentioning at this time of unrest is the fact that you will be living amongst peoples who do not particularly like you. It is fair to say Dubai is by far the most moderate of ME cities, but it would be folly to suggest that it is an island of tolerance in a region not known for it. Nobody here is pressing the panic button, but there is a large number of families taking the opportunity to go home for the school holidays if you get my drift.
Now just say things got really unpleasant here because of the current regional tensions. What then. We can't leave because there are no jobs, but we may not want to stay.
As i have said before, there is far more to the decision to come here than just taxes and sunshine. Give it careful consideration, make your D and dont look back.
The Rev
P.S the figures i quoted on accom are based on getting an equivalent villa in an similar location to what the company offers. You can get much cheaper if you look farther afield and/or opt for something smaller.
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BigGeordie,
you will love the 2am pick ups for BOM, HYD, MAA turnarounds.
for sure you won't have to battle for landings.
if landings are your motivation to join emirates, if it doesn't bother you if the management changes your contract all the time, you have no union and no rights as an expat, EK is the place for you.
good luck
you will love the 2am pick ups for BOM, HYD, MAA turnarounds.
for sure you won't have to battle for landings.
if landings are your motivation to join emirates, if it doesn't bother you if the management changes your contract all the time, you have no union and no rights as an expat, EK is the place for you.
good luck
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All good stuff but I think that a lot of the issues discussed have nothing to do with Emirates and could occur at any airline in any country. Emirates has the advantage, at the moment, of good job security
At Virgin you have a dilemma to see whether or not it will be one of the 12 carriers that is threatened by this downturn - as stated by S&P.
Its all about perspective really. The lifestyle for me is good! I am a brit, I like the weather, a summer for me here beats a winter in the Uk, and I like the biggish city warm wx quality of life. My kids go to a great school and my villa is ok. I don't take home as much as I would like but it is enough to live life and save some cash. My social life with my wife and friends is much better than it would have been living in the darkest backwaters in the UK where I could actually afford a house.
Schools - In the UK I would have loved my kids to go to the best schools but they were all in boroughs that I couldn't afford the council tax let alone a mortgage! Here, the allowance doesn't cover all schools at the moment but it does cover most and it may be reviewed.
But that isn't EKs fault, they didn't raise the fees. The schools did. And yes I accept that the choice on offer might force kids to go to schools that will cost their parents cash but that happens in the UK too! My mate is paying £4,000 per term to get his kids into a decent private school cos the local state ones suck. Another mate moved from a 5 bedroom house in one catchment area to a 3 bedder in another to get his kids in the right school. If you want your kids to board from here, at least EK would pick up some of the tab.
Regional tensions - I think if you talk to lots of Belgians, Americans, Swiss or Aussies.... life in the airlines has become pretty unpleasant over the last couple of years where they live anyway.
If the sh*t really hit the fan you could go home and be in no worse a situation than any of them. I certainly don't feel any less safe than I did 3 years ago but time will tell. I take the attitude that if a terrorist is going to go after Western assets, there are more of them in the West.
As for most of the population not liking you, its a bit like being in Jo'burg. (Sorry Cape) For real Western regional tensions, see what happens when the mortgage rate goes up!
Provident Fund - Go and check how well the Virgin money purchase scheme is currently performing before you start slagging off the EK provident fund. Guess what, at the moment, all investments suck and final salary schemes have vanished. Taking the long term view I hope to eventually retire with a little cash.
Pay - With the crap current exchange rate, a starting F/O takes home about £2600 or so a month but doesn't have to pay the poll tax, electricity, oil and gas bills or more importantly the mortgage. You can buy a house if you want and rent it out so all is not necessarily bad.
Representation is an issue and costs are being cut, but where are they not. The change of entry rules for the profit share sucked but only because the rules were back dated so that you didn't qualify unless you had been in the scheme for a whole year and you weren't told this on joining.
I believe Cathy and a lot of other airlines also had representation issues. United, Ansett and Sabena didn't; look where it got them!
I'm not a company man and I may well be proved wrong but I think a lot of the bitching that goes on has to do with issues that are a part of every day life in any country. Here because in an ex-pat airline the company is a bigger part of your life than at home; it is easy to blame them for all the ills of the world.
I like my job! It can be boring and anti-social at times (like all airlines) but then I have a life away from the airline that I enjoy in my downtime. It isn't Cathay A scale but then again it isn't Sabena either. The halcyon days of air travel for pilots have gone for the moment, they may return in the future but I wouldn't bet on it.
You can either spend your life bitching and become bitter and twisted or count your blessings and live! Like a lot of pilots here I am in for the long haul. If you are here to make a quick buck and go home in the short term then I can understand why it doesn't look so good. If you think your own country is the promised land where the weather is great and everyone loves you, why are you here?
Just remember investments can go up as well as down!
To those whose glasses are half full,
Ghost
At Virgin you have a dilemma to see whether or not it will be one of the 12 carriers that is threatened by this downturn - as stated by S&P.
Its all about perspective really. The lifestyle for me is good! I am a brit, I like the weather, a summer for me here beats a winter in the Uk, and I like the biggish city warm wx quality of life. My kids go to a great school and my villa is ok. I don't take home as much as I would like but it is enough to live life and save some cash. My social life with my wife and friends is much better than it would have been living in the darkest backwaters in the UK where I could actually afford a house.
Schools - In the UK I would have loved my kids to go to the best schools but they were all in boroughs that I couldn't afford the council tax let alone a mortgage! Here, the allowance doesn't cover all schools at the moment but it does cover most and it may be reviewed.
But that isn't EKs fault, they didn't raise the fees. The schools did. And yes I accept that the choice on offer might force kids to go to schools that will cost their parents cash but that happens in the UK too! My mate is paying £4,000 per term to get his kids into a decent private school cos the local state ones suck. Another mate moved from a 5 bedroom house in one catchment area to a 3 bedder in another to get his kids in the right school. If you want your kids to board from here, at least EK would pick up some of the tab.
Regional tensions - I think if you talk to lots of Belgians, Americans, Swiss or Aussies.... life in the airlines has become pretty unpleasant over the last couple of years where they live anyway.
If the sh*t really hit the fan you could go home and be in no worse a situation than any of them. I certainly don't feel any less safe than I did 3 years ago but time will tell. I take the attitude that if a terrorist is going to go after Western assets, there are more of them in the West.
As for most of the population not liking you, its a bit like being in Jo'burg. (Sorry Cape) For real Western regional tensions, see what happens when the mortgage rate goes up!
Provident Fund - Go and check how well the Virgin money purchase scheme is currently performing before you start slagging off the EK provident fund. Guess what, at the moment, all investments suck and final salary schemes have vanished. Taking the long term view I hope to eventually retire with a little cash.
Pay - With the crap current exchange rate, a starting F/O takes home about £2600 or so a month but doesn't have to pay the poll tax, electricity, oil and gas bills or more importantly the mortgage. You can buy a house if you want and rent it out so all is not necessarily bad.
Representation is an issue and costs are being cut, but where are they not. The change of entry rules for the profit share sucked but only because the rules were back dated so that you didn't qualify unless you had been in the scheme for a whole year and you weren't told this on joining.
I believe Cathy and a lot of other airlines also had representation issues. United, Ansett and Sabena didn't; look where it got them!
I'm not a company man and I may well be proved wrong but I think a lot of the bitching that goes on has to do with issues that are a part of every day life in any country. Here because in an ex-pat airline the company is a bigger part of your life than at home; it is easy to blame them for all the ills of the world.
I like my job! It can be boring and anti-social at times (like all airlines) but then I have a life away from the airline that I enjoy in my downtime. It isn't Cathay A scale but then again it isn't Sabena either. The halcyon days of air travel for pilots have gone for the moment, they may return in the future but I wouldn't bet on it.
You can either spend your life bitching and become bitter and twisted or count your blessings and live! Like a lot of pilots here I am in for the long haul. If you are here to make a quick buck and go home in the short term then I can understand why it doesn't look so good. If you think your own country is the promised land where the weather is great and everyone loves you, why are you here?
Just remember investments can go up as well as down!
To those whose glasses are half full,
Ghost
Last edited by Ghostflyer; 2nd Apr 2003 at 22:11.
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Ghost,
I hear what you are saying and I agree with you because it is your opinion. Therefor it is right for you. Just because others don't share your opinion, dont write it off as bitching. It is just another opinion. People write on this forum for the betterment of the pilot community. The best thing you can do is to place your opinion on these bulletin boards, accept those of others, even if they differ from yours, and let the people who have the decisions to make, do so based on the information presented from all sides of the argument.
One of the things that is repeated time after time on pprune is the putting down of posts that do not agree with your opinion. Just remember all opinions are valid because they are opinions. Everyone has a different one. That is what makes the world such and interesting place.
It is my belief that a lot of people come to EK because they believe it will be a huge improvement in lifestyle/income. I have found that it is neither. Once again, my opinion.
I have found it to be a modest improvement in lifestyle and income, and one that may not justify coming here, depending on your current circumstance. I have never backed away from admitting it has been, on balance, a positive move coming here for me. The big issue is, and will be for some time, that it is not a place where most people want to live the best years of their lives. But once you are here, it is difficult to leave (Seniority lists and all that).
The bottom line however is that life is an adventure, not a rehearsal for the real thing. So do what you gotta do and have fun doing it.
The Rev
I hear what you are saying and I agree with you because it is your opinion. Therefor it is right for you. Just because others don't share your opinion, dont write it off as bitching. It is just another opinion. People write on this forum for the betterment of the pilot community. The best thing you can do is to place your opinion on these bulletin boards, accept those of others, even if they differ from yours, and let the people who have the decisions to make, do so based on the information presented from all sides of the argument.
One of the things that is repeated time after time on pprune is the putting down of posts that do not agree with your opinion. Just remember all opinions are valid because they are opinions. Everyone has a different one. That is what makes the world such and interesting place.
It is my belief that a lot of people come to EK because they believe it will be a huge improvement in lifestyle/income. I have found that it is neither. Once again, my opinion.
I have found it to be a modest improvement in lifestyle and income, and one that may not justify coming here, depending on your current circumstance. I have never backed away from admitting it has been, on balance, a positive move coming here for me. The big issue is, and will be for some time, that it is not a place where most people want to live the best years of their lives. But once you are here, it is difficult to leave (Seniority lists and all that).
The bottom line however is that life is an adventure, not a rehearsal for the real thing. So do what you gotta do and have fun doing it.
The Rev
Last edited by Reverend Doctor Doug; 3rd Apr 2003 at 00:10.
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Doug,
Sorry if you felt put down, not my intention.
I didn't say anyone was bitching! I gave my opinion and said: 'a lot of the bitching...' and 'you can spend your life bitching...'
I wasn't actually thinking of this thread; I was thinking of a thread to do with whether or not 390 rand was enough cash to have a jolly good time in Jo'burg. The factual answer to that is 'yes!'
I agree that this web-site should be for the betterment of the pilot community but sadly a lot of what is written is written by people with rather strange agendas that have absolutely no direct connection to the companies involved. That is the price we pay for freedom of speech.
I know you are not in that bracket but I have watched with interest guys slag both EK, QR and others. At one point they are talking about their upcoming interview and a couple of weeks later start slagging all that those companies stand for.... I wonder why!
You are absolutely right that we shouldn't put down others but then again, we shouldn't allow opinions which are divergent from our own to upset us. All I have done is looked at the arguements presented and showed the other side of the coin.
As the wise man once said: 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one and they all stink!'
Ghost
Sorry if you felt put down, not my intention.
I didn't say anyone was bitching! I gave my opinion and said: 'a lot of the bitching...' and 'you can spend your life bitching...'
I wasn't actually thinking of this thread; I was thinking of a thread to do with whether or not 390 rand was enough cash to have a jolly good time in Jo'burg. The factual answer to that is 'yes!'
I agree that this web-site should be for the betterment of the pilot community but sadly a lot of what is written is written by people with rather strange agendas that have absolutely no direct connection to the companies involved. That is the price we pay for freedom of speech.
I know you are not in that bracket but I have watched with interest guys slag both EK, QR and others. At one point they are talking about their upcoming interview and a couple of weeks later start slagging all that those companies stand for.... I wonder why!
You are absolutely right that we shouldn't put down others but then again, we shouldn't allow opinions which are divergent from our own to upset us. All I have done is looked at the arguements presented and showed the other side of the coin.
As the wise man once said: 'Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one and they all stink!'
Ghost
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Lest some humble reader of this thread develop the notion that "representation" is universally seen as a boon, may I point out that for many of us it's absence is one of our favourite things about EK.
Luckily it's against the law here, but should things ever change I would lead the charge against. Have a look at what is happening at Air Canada right now and I think you will see how easily it is to be represented right out of existence.
I'll just kiss my Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher icons now and be off to bed.
Play nice...
Luckily it's against the law here, but should things ever change I would lead the charge against. Have a look at what is happening at Air Canada right now and I think you will see how easily it is to be represented right out of existence.
I'll just kiss my Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher icons now and be off to bed.
Play nice...
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Ghost, Reverend,
As I've been spending the last few months trying to decide between Virgin and Emirates I'm interested in everybody's opinion but I do take more notice of people who are/have been in Emirates. I haven't always liked what I've read but I want to thank you for taking the trouble to post what you think, hopefully when I get out to Dubai it will reduce the number of surprises in store!
Regards,
Geordie
As I've been spending the last few months trying to decide between Virgin and Emirates I'm interested in everybody's opinion but I do take more notice of people who are/have been in Emirates. I haven't always liked what I've read but I want to thank you for taking the trouble to post what you think, hopefully when I get out to Dubai it will reduce the number of surprises in store!
Regards,
Geordie
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BG What is your wife going to do all the time in Dubai as you have no kids??? Don't think she can flit back and forth to UK or anywhere else whilst you are downroute.
Get your command first is my advice and then go somewhere as a Captain in due course if you still think the grass is greener.
Get your command first is my advice and then go somewhere as a Captain in due course if you still think the grass is greener.
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Hi all,
Just like to say many thanks to all of those who have contributed to this thread. Many constructive and well explained issues. As BG commented, it is nice to hear from the lads who can talk from experience.
I would really appreciate it if someone would comment on the issue of time to command. I was speaking to a fellow aviator today who has recently done the EK interview and he was told by the chaps doing the interviewing that he could expect a command in about 3.5 years. Reading others opinions on this forum it sounds more like 7. What’s the word on the inside?
I know I am being greedy now, but I would really like to hear from the single lads at EK on how they enjoy the lifestyle. For me, this will probably be the most important issue.
BigGeordie, Thanks for the offer. I will be away for a week as of tomorrow, but when I get back, I will be in touch.
Thanks again,
EG
Just like to say many thanks to all of those who have contributed to this thread. Many constructive and well explained issues. As BG commented, it is nice to hear from the lads who can talk from experience.
I would really appreciate it if someone would comment on the issue of time to command. I was speaking to a fellow aviator today who has recently done the EK interview and he was told by the chaps doing the interviewing that he could expect a command in about 3.5 years. Reading others opinions on this forum it sounds more like 7. What’s the word on the inside?
I know I am being greedy now, but I would really like to hear from the single lads at EK on how they enjoy the lifestyle. For me, this will probably be the most important issue.
BigGeordie, Thanks for the offer. I will be away for a week as of tomorrow, but when I get back, I will be in touch.
Thanks again,
EG
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An Air Canada pilot who wished he didn't read the paper today.
Speaking of Virgin, first time post, So be kind.
I'm scheduled for EK interviews early May and can't get the grin off my face. I like the quote, life is not a rehersal. Alot of good points from EK, less bad ones as far as I can tell.
Can't speak for the landscape in GB but over here were reaching for fire bottles.
Speaking of Virgin, first time post, So be kind.
I'm scheduled for EK interviews early May and can't get the grin off my face. I like the quote, life is not a rehersal. Alot of good points from EK, less bad ones as far as I can tell.
Can't speak for the landscape in GB but over here were reaching for fire bottles.
This is not really relevent to the thread but there is alway a lot of bitching about EK and QR but there is mostly good things said about Gulf , so what really is the choice airline in the middle east.
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Easy,
The answer is no one knows. When I joined guys were getting commands in less than 2 years, then Gulf speared in and the requirements were changed. In the past guys have taken longer and shorter periods of time.
At the interview it is stated that 'currently' commands are taking about 3 years but that this period may change depending on the requirements of the company.
Since I joined it has been stated that the airline will expand to 100 aircraft by 2010. So what is happening is that guys are looking at the crews required for 100 aircraft, seeing how many guys we currently have and working out when we would have enough Captains for this requirement.
They then are assuming a certain level of staff turnover which would lead to a 7 year command figure. But guess what a lot of the Captains are young and might stay so it could be longer. Or EK could say that their strategic aim is to have, say, 200 aircraft by 2015 and the time drops again.
I have no idea what is going to happen but the plans for the airline size have more than tripled since I joined and because of the rapidly expanding Gulf population and the success of the airline, a further increase in airline size might not be inappropriate but any number of future events might stifle this growth. It is of note that we have expanded rapidly even during the downturn so if you believe there ever will be an upturn who knows what might happen.
So just like our investments, 'Time to command may go up as well as down and past performance is not a guide to future performance!'
Hope that helps,
Ghost
The answer is no one knows. When I joined guys were getting commands in less than 2 years, then Gulf speared in and the requirements were changed. In the past guys have taken longer and shorter periods of time.
At the interview it is stated that 'currently' commands are taking about 3 years but that this period may change depending on the requirements of the company.
Since I joined it has been stated that the airline will expand to 100 aircraft by 2010. So what is happening is that guys are looking at the crews required for 100 aircraft, seeing how many guys we currently have and working out when we would have enough Captains for this requirement.
They then are assuming a certain level of staff turnover which would lead to a 7 year command figure. But guess what a lot of the Captains are young and might stay so it could be longer. Or EK could say that their strategic aim is to have, say, 200 aircraft by 2015 and the time drops again.
I have no idea what is going to happen but the plans for the airline size have more than tripled since I joined and because of the rapidly expanding Gulf population and the success of the airline, a further increase in airline size might not be inappropriate but any number of future events might stifle this growth. It is of note that we have expanded rapidly even during the downturn so if you believe there ever will be an upturn who knows what might happen.
So just like our investments, 'Time to command may go up as well as down and past performance is not a guide to future performance!'
Hope that helps,
Ghost