Saudi Aramco - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Flew with Boeing and McDonnell Douglas years ago in the magic kingdom and while it was better and more professional, much of what you said is correct.
BTW, every phone call in the kingdom is listened to, not just the ones at Aramco.
BTW, every phone call in the kingdom is listened to, not just the ones at Aramco.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Saudi Arabia
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Your right about some of the things, in the same time you're over exaggerating. I'm part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Dep. maintenance division. I could relate to what you're saying in some way, but man come on I still thinks we are far away better than a lot of companies out there especially when you're talking about private airplane operator + with all do respect to you if you don't like the company you can leave any time no one is holding is there???
Join Date: Aug 2006
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[quote=Aircraft Eng.;2805742]Your right about some of the things, in the I'm part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Dep. maintenance division. I could relate to what you're saying in some way,
I know that you can appreciate this .When someone who has come in as a "Consultant"/ Contractor is made perminant they lose touch with the conditions of the "Consultant" inpart because they are "CORRUPTED" by all the money and benifits that are thrown their way.They are given an "AGAMA" with which they can use to begin to have a life in Saudi, i.e. simple things like geting a mobile phone, Internet Connection, buying a car, getting a decent apartment or going to the beach and most importantly Having your Family with you!! are not possible with out an "AGAMA". Most "Consultants" are here on a Visa which states clearly they are PROHIBITED FROM WORKING!!! It is truely difficult to come to Saudi Arabia and face the day to day life there without these BASIC things that most people in the "CIVILISED WORLD" view as necessary to life as opposed to being told that these very same conditions are previledge of a chosen few.
I would agree that Saudi Aramco and Saudi Arabia is not for everyone, but if you are going to bring folks here treat them FAIR and treat them with RESPECT or dont bring them at all.!!!!!!!!!
I Believe that the current Manager of the Aviation department is not fully aware of all this. The "New Regime " in power in the Chief Pilot's office is Totally Clueless! lacks proper management skills and has lost touch with reality because they are BLINDED BY THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA!!!!!!!. In one month we have lost 5 Contractors because of the Chief Pilots attitude.!! And these "Consultants" unwillingness to accept being treated like 2ND CLASS People!! And untill that issue is addressed i believe every prospective "Consultant" should STAY AWAY!!
I know that you can appreciate this .When someone who has come in as a "Consultant"/ Contractor is made perminant they lose touch with the conditions of the "Consultant" inpart because they are "CORRUPTED" by all the money and benifits that are thrown their way.They are given an "AGAMA" with which they can use to begin to have a life in Saudi, i.e. simple things like geting a mobile phone, Internet Connection, buying a car, getting a decent apartment or going to the beach and most importantly Having your Family with you!! are not possible with out an "AGAMA". Most "Consultants" are here on a Visa which states clearly they are PROHIBITED FROM WORKING!!! It is truely difficult to come to Saudi Arabia and face the day to day life there without these BASIC things that most people in the "CIVILISED WORLD" view as necessary to life as opposed to being told that these very same conditions are previledge of a chosen few.
I would agree that Saudi Aramco and Saudi Arabia is not for everyone, but if you are going to bring folks here treat them FAIR and treat them with RESPECT or dont bring them at all.!!!!!!!!!
I Believe that the current Manager of the Aviation department is not fully aware of all this. The "New Regime " in power in the Chief Pilot's office is Totally Clueless! lacks proper management skills and has lost touch with reality because they are BLINDED BY THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA!!!!!!!. In one month we have lost 5 Contractors because of the Chief Pilots attitude.!! And these "Consultants" unwillingness to accept being treated like 2ND CLASS People!! And untill that issue is addressed i believe every prospective "Consultant" should STAY AWAY!!
Join Date: Jan 2006
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[quote=Human Cargo;2805825]
Unfortunately you are talking about normal people.........if you work in the middle-east be ready to accept something that is not normal......and that is at $USD75 a barrel........wait untill it hits $100+.
Your right about some of the things, in the I'm part of the Saudi Aramco Aviation Dep. maintenance division. I could relate to what you're saying in some way,
I know that you can appreciate this .When someone who has come in as a "Consultant"/ Contractor is made perminant they lose touch with the conditions of the "Consultant" inpart because they are "CORRUPTED" by all the money and benifits that are thrown their way.They are given an "AGAMA" with which they can use to begin to have a life in Saudi, i.e. simple things like geting a mobile phone, Internet Connection, buying a car, getting a decent apartment or going to the beach and most importantly Having your Family with you!! are not possible with out an "AGAMA". Most "Consultants" are here on a Visa which states clearly they are PROHIBITED FROM WORKING!!! It is truely difficult to come to Saudi Arabia and face the day to day life there without these BASIC things that most people in the "CIVILISED WORLD" view as necessary to life as opposed to being told that these very same conditions are previledge of a chosen few.
I would agree that Saudi Aramco and Saudi Arabia is not for everyone, but if you are going to bring folks here treat them FAIR and treat them with RESPECT or dont bring them at all.!!!!!!!!!
I Believe that the current Manager of the Aviation department is not fully aware of all this. The "New Regime " in power in the Chief Pilot's office is Totally Clueless! lacks proper management skills and has lost touch with reality because they are BLINDED BY THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA!!!!!!!. In one month we have lost 5 Contractors because of the Chief Pilots attitude.!! And these "Consultants" unwillingness to accept being treated like 2ND CLASS People!! And untill that issue is addressed i believe every prospective "Consultant" should STAY AWAY!!
I know that you can appreciate this .When someone who has come in as a "Consultant"/ Contractor is made perminant they lose touch with the conditions of the "Consultant" inpart because they are "CORRUPTED" by all the money and benifits that are thrown their way.They are given an "AGAMA" with which they can use to begin to have a life in Saudi, i.e. simple things like geting a mobile phone, Internet Connection, buying a car, getting a decent apartment or going to the beach and most importantly Having your Family with you!! are not possible with out an "AGAMA". Most "Consultants" are here on a Visa which states clearly they are PROHIBITED FROM WORKING!!! It is truely difficult to come to Saudi Arabia and face the day to day life there without these BASIC things that most people in the "CIVILISED WORLD" view as necessary to life as opposed to being told that these very same conditions are previledge of a chosen few.
I would agree that Saudi Aramco and Saudi Arabia is not for everyone, but if you are going to bring folks here treat them FAIR and treat them with RESPECT or dont bring them at all.!!!!!!!!!
I Believe that the current Manager of the Aviation department is not fully aware of all this. The "New Regime " in power in the Chief Pilot's office is Totally Clueless! lacks proper management skills and has lost touch with reality because they are BLINDED BY THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDA!!!!!!!. In one month we have lost 5 Contractors because of the Chief Pilots attitude.!! And these "Consultants" unwillingness to accept being treated like 2ND CLASS People!! And untill that issue is addressed i believe every prospective "Consultant" should STAY AWAY!!
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Honest Opinion About Aramco Aviation
First of all, I believe you submitted a request for employment, not Aramco has kissed your hands to join them promising you red velvet carpet to welcome you aboard.
Secondly, the monthly payment you’re getting for joining Aramco is US$ 6,500 for first officer Dash8 up to US$8,500 monthly for B737 Captain plus $500 per diem on top of that. I believe such a pay rate is not matched back home in the main land.
The load of the work is significantly different from flying back in the main land whereby in Aramco, you’ll be back home at 11PM at most enjoying a day or two of rest. And, that work load is seconded with 3 weeks off every three quarters with a pay amount of US$2,500.
What you have posted is a mere personal problem that you wanted to blow it up somewhere to defame a place that you heartily wanted to remain in if just those problems you listed were resolved. Those problems are terrifically personal. When you arrived in Bahrain, you were escorted to the Embassy and all the way to your ready furnitured home (without a TV) for I don’t believe any employer will furnish TV or internet to the employees. But Aramco does provide free internet to its Pilots on full employment status; those who pass the evaluation period during the (Consultant) status. Hence, you’re one of those who didn’t make it and want to harm Aramco Aviation by defaming and confusing new applicants of the situation here. Additionally, transportation all over the world is limited between home and work, but you seem to want blonde drive with Bentley GT. I hope you’ll find such an employer.
In regards to Medical, the medical coverage is not provided unless it’s an emergency and it’s clearly stated and explained in the contract. So, wondering about that is really showing that you don’t have the basics English reading to comprehend a clear sentence in the contract.
Last, Aramco Aviation is FAA Part 91 approved and certified operator outside the USA with “N” registered Aircraft. Aramco Aviation is periodically self-auditing itself from fine organization such as “Flight Safety” and “R Dixon”. Aramco Aviation has transported in the year 2005, more than 365,000 people to/from their work locations to the Base Hub in King Fahad International airport. Aramco fleet is composed of 17 fixed wing aircraft and 21 helicopters and more than 56 years of history; such history has only two accidents, the rest was clean white slate of good performance, teamwork spirit, and faith in better tomorrow through action.
AMQ.
Secondly, the monthly payment you’re getting for joining Aramco is US$ 6,500 for first officer Dash8 up to US$8,500 monthly for B737 Captain plus $500 per diem on top of that. I believe such a pay rate is not matched back home in the main land.
The load of the work is significantly different from flying back in the main land whereby in Aramco, you’ll be back home at 11PM at most enjoying a day or two of rest. And, that work load is seconded with 3 weeks off every three quarters with a pay amount of US$2,500.
What you have posted is a mere personal problem that you wanted to blow it up somewhere to defame a place that you heartily wanted to remain in if just those problems you listed were resolved. Those problems are terrifically personal. When you arrived in Bahrain, you were escorted to the Embassy and all the way to your ready furnitured home (without a TV) for I don’t believe any employer will furnish TV or internet to the employees. But Aramco does provide free internet to its Pilots on full employment status; those who pass the evaluation period during the (Consultant) status. Hence, you’re one of those who didn’t make it and want to harm Aramco Aviation by defaming and confusing new applicants of the situation here. Additionally, transportation all over the world is limited between home and work, but you seem to want blonde drive with Bentley GT. I hope you’ll find such an employer.
In regards to Medical, the medical coverage is not provided unless it’s an emergency and it’s clearly stated and explained in the contract. So, wondering about that is really showing that you don’t have the basics English reading to comprehend a clear sentence in the contract.
Last, Aramco Aviation is FAA Part 91 approved and certified operator outside the USA with “N” registered Aircraft. Aramco Aviation is periodically self-auditing itself from fine organization such as “Flight Safety” and “R Dixon”. Aramco Aviation has transported in the year 2005, more than 365,000 people to/from their work locations to the Base Hub in King Fahad International airport. Aramco fleet is composed of 17 fixed wing aircraft and 21 helicopters and more than 56 years of history; such history has only two accidents, the rest was clean white slate of good performance, teamwork spirit, and faith in better tomorrow through action.
AMQ.
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What he says is true, but he only gives half the story.
You come in as a contractor, so you don't have a igama (residence permit) but you still have your passport.
You may not have a car (can't buy it anyway) and depending on where in Dhahran they put you, it could be 5km to get to the commissary/dining hall. But there is a crappy bus schedule (about every 2-3 hours or so) or you can call a taxi (cost is SR10 each way). You can also rent a car on a montly basis (actually not that expensive compared to other places). There are also Aramco busses that take you into Khobar and a taxi ride is less SR30 or less (Thats less than $10. There is no way you can enter a taxi in the west for less than that). The only reason you can complain about transport is if you are cheap.
As for internet, the paperwork for getting Aramco internet is daunting, but the local dial up is cheap these days. And all you have to do is buy a card in Khobar and you just dial up.
As for TV, you have to buy one, but they you have to buy over priced sattelite service as there is virtualy nothing you can see over the air, if you are lucky to have the reception. You have to pay over $500/year for the most basic of satellite service.
You come in as a contractor, so you don't have a igama (residence permit) but you still have your passport.
You may not have a car (can't buy it anyway) and depending on where in Dhahran they put you, it could be 5km to get to the commissary/dining hall. But there is a crappy bus schedule (about every 2-3 hours or so) or you can call a taxi (cost is SR10 each way). You can also rent a car on a montly basis (actually not that expensive compared to other places). There are also Aramco busses that take you into Khobar and a taxi ride is less SR30 or less (Thats less than $10. There is no way you can enter a taxi in the west for less than that). The only reason you can complain about transport is if you are cheap.
As for internet, the paperwork for getting Aramco internet is daunting, but the local dial up is cheap these days. And all you have to do is buy a card in Khobar and you just dial up.
As for TV, you have to buy one, but they you have to buy over priced sattelite service as there is virtualy nothing you can see over the air, if you are lucky to have the reception. You have to pay over $500/year for the most basic of satellite service.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Aramco
The best deal at ARAMCO has always been the non-contract, permanent positions. I flew for them from 1997-1999. (737, DHC6, CE-500). The pay and benefits were excellent and I was very well treated. At the time the Chief Pilot was an American as were most of the fleet managers. Now there have been quite a few changes, and yes I have heard that it's a lot different.
The contract guys has visa issues, car issues etc, but most of these problems were easily resolved with the "right contacts."
If you are from a 121 carrier it is a lot different. I remember having a 5AM pick up, 4-6 legs, and done by 10AM!! Its not for everyone, but if you want to save some money, 5 years there will be equivalent to 15 years in the states, based on salary, savings etc.
The contract guys has visa issues, car issues etc, but most of these problems were easily resolved with the "right contacts."
If you are from a 121 carrier it is a lot different. I remember having a 5AM pick up, 4-6 legs, and done by 10AM!! Its not for everyone, but if you want to save some money, 5 years there will be equivalent to 15 years in the states, based on salary, savings etc.
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Human Cargo's experience are not unframiliar to any expat anywhere.. the first few months in any country can be hard while all the paperwork ect is processed. Even in HKG, I had the internet people cancel twice before finally installing (6 WEEKS!!!).
Overseas Contract Expat work is not KANSAS Toto.. There are few laws and fewer rights than you are used to. They make it up by paying you $$$$
Overseas Contract Expat work is not KANSAS Toto.. There are few laws and fewer rights than you are used to. They make it up by paying you $$$$
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Man, I feel for ya.
Having worked extensively in the Middle East, I know all too well what you've been through.
Pretty much the same everywhere in the desert. Some places better than others but otherwise a huge disregard for rules and respect towards expats... and ALWAYS late to pay.
And about the Saudi pilots. A lot of those guys are nightmares so no surprise there. There is a reason expats are always on the flight deck with them.
I finished up my final and my LAST M.E. contract in Dec. 2004. I will never go back to work there, have plenty of friends there though, would still visit. Decent people on a spiritual and social level but horrible in business.
A buddy of mine was recently offered a decent paying gig in Bahrain. When they asked him to pay his way there, with the promise of reimbursement upon arrival, he declined. They dug their heels in that he must pay, he decided to fid work elsewhere. This was your first M.E. gig so of course you expected to get paid on time and get expenses reimbursed promptly. Hopefully you learned your lesson.
I am reminded of an Indian pilot who was hired by my former Kuwaiti employer after I left. They asked him to pay for his Initial type rating, hotel bill during training, travel to USA (from India) for training and then to Kuwait from USA all on his tab with the promise of reimburing him upon arrival. My buds and I added it all up and he was over $60,000 in the hole. There's no telling how long it took to get his money back but I'm sure at least 3 months. You want to haev sympathy for the guy but it serves him right for being to gullible. Kind of like a Vegas gambleer who loses it all... you know, "what were you thinkin?"
When I go on contract, I work out all details and payment BEFORE I leave my home (Unless it's for Parc Aviation, they always pay). If the company I am flying for can't understand this... well at least I'm sitting in my home and not in some ****ty hotel praying I'll get my money. Live and learn, Gents.
Having worked extensively in the Middle East, I know all too well what you've been through.
Pretty much the same everywhere in the desert. Some places better than others but otherwise a huge disregard for rules and respect towards expats... and ALWAYS late to pay.
And about the Saudi pilots. A lot of those guys are nightmares so no surprise there. There is a reason expats are always on the flight deck with them.
I finished up my final and my LAST M.E. contract in Dec. 2004. I will never go back to work there, have plenty of friends there though, would still visit. Decent people on a spiritual and social level but horrible in business.
A buddy of mine was recently offered a decent paying gig in Bahrain. When they asked him to pay his way there, with the promise of reimbursement upon arrival, he declined. They dug their heels in that he must pay, he decided to fid work elsewhere. This was your first M.E. gig so of course you expected to get paid on time and get expenses reimbursed promptly. Hopefully you learned your lesson.
I am reminded of an Indian pilot who was hired by my former Kuwaiti employer after I left. They asked him to pay for his Initial type rating, hotel bill during training, travel to USA (from India) for training and then to Kuwait from USA all on his tab with the promise of reimburing him upon arrival. My buds and I added it all up and he was over $60,000 in the hole. There's no telling how long it took to get his money back but I'm sure at least 3 months. You want to haev sympathy for the guy but it serves him right for being to gullible. Kind of like a Vegas gambleer who loses it all... you know, "what were you thinkin?"
When I go on contract, I work out all details and payment BEFORE I leave my home (Unless it's for Parc Aviation, they always pay). If the company I am flying for can't understand this... well at least I'm sitting in my home and not in some ****ty hotel praying I'll get my money. Live and learn, Gents.
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i think saudi aramco is not professional at all just look at their local engineers they really dont know stuffs even from the flight manual i asked one engineer from saudi aramco what a fuselage is he didnt even know what it means its really shame for the company hiring people like him
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Which "local engineers" are you talking about?
It's one thing to winge about T&C's, life in Saudi, life in Aramco/Dhahran, Contractor vs. Staff, etc.
But maintenance is another matter! Do you know the registration on the side of their planes? Even more, who flys on them? Their families!
It's one thing to winge about T&C's, life in Saudi, life in Aramco/Dhahran, Contractor vs. Staff, etc.
But maintenance is another matter! Do you know the registration on the side of their planes? Even more, who flys on them? Their families!
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Sadly true Spread da Aloha. From what I've heard, even the Saudi's are fed-up and looking at personal exit strategies. 
Sad to hear this once "top notch" employer going this way.
Sad to hear this once "top notch" employer going this way.