ironbutt57

I do not percieve my professional colleagues who have left to pursue other career opportunities to be vermin scum, or otherwise...just the unprofessional types posting here who insist on bagging GF on the way out the door

Capt Al Fakhem

Yep Ironbutt57, never trash your colleagues when they leave coz it just may happen to you too. Like when you applied to SIA Cargo last year seems at the time you were all mouth about the lousy T&C's we have compared to SIACargo, what happened change of heart? I guess the ol "hells angels" look didn't go down too well with Capt Ho Li Fook doing your sim ride did it?
Not to worry mate we still love ya, there's a Harley in the garage and lots of cold one's in the fridge.
Besides if all else fails .............. Fakhem

Heleheleyani

Hello all,

I don't write here often nor complain and until recently I was hopeful.

I am an expat FO 320, I really want to (or I should say wanted to) stay and work in Bahrain longer but it come to the point now that I cannot even financially afford to do it anymore regardless how much I want to.

Dear Ironbutt, usually I agree with most of your comments but when you call 320 FO's Eurobrats it upsets me. I want to let you know about my situation which I believe will reflect many Expat FO's situation.

• I worked hard to get this job and I worked and paid for all my training, of course I got lots of loans to pay and have a family to support.
• I have a mortgage which is tied to euro and BD lost it's value against dollar about 30 % in the last 2 years.
• I choose Middle East airline because I thought I can work hard and earn good so I will be out of dept quicker.
• I volunteer to fly every single day that I am off, I try to stay in bahrain at least half of my leave everytime and volunteer to fly.
• My average time away is 150 - 220 hours a month, my typical flight day is Bah - Doh - Bah - Dmm - Bah.
• Couple of times in front of my eyes Local pilots called their mates in rostering and changed their rosters according to their needs.
• I have no idea when or if I will ever be offered to fly 330/340
• My monthly salary is hardly hits 2000BD. It's generally 1800BD - 1900 BD
• You call me RAT and spoiled Eurobrat, but I dont' think as a Training Captain in 767 with the income of double what I earn you can neither emphatise nor capable of symphatising with me. I don't feel like a RAT. I feel as a person who is lied to and cheated on. I do not know who to talk or complain about my problems. So I just write it here to get it out of my chest. I know life is not fair but I believe we should do our best to make it fair for EVERYONE.

Thanks for your time.

Dominus vobiscum

Nice and honnest post Heleheleyani,

I can say I fully agree with most of your statements in regards to GF ....It's sad but we won't change a thing in this attitude. So that's why people are looking to go....Lied about the housing, lied about the flying and roster,lied about school $...Training is nil and mickey mouse .....So what to do....Your answer is as good as mine....Meanwhile let's shop

ironbutt57

Never applied, interviewed or otherwise confirmable through two colleagues now on the properties at SIN cargo...a bit of research through former GF members and other sources confirmed it was not for me at this juncture..

Heleheleyani...did I spell that right...what can I say...sorry if you take my comments personally..sorry if it doesn't work for you...yes things could be improved...not sure GF is in the position to do so...hope it works out better at your next job..

Capt Al Fakhem

IB57
Seems you have a selective memory mate. Nevermind, I guess its not a time you care to remember, but some of us do remember how you described the proverbial sunshine shining out of SINCargo's derier and your impending interview after a good session at the bar one night last year.

My point is not SINCargo, my point is that your time at GF and the lucky strikes you've had comming from the outfit next door certainly does not entitle you to mock genuine gripe from guys who were promised advancement and got shafted by DE F/O's on the widebodies and a seniority system which is not worth the paper it's written on. You talk of loyalty but what did you do when you got command next door; you came to GF as a DEC. Nice one

Please refrain from calling people "Eurobrats" and the likes unless you care to receive the same treatment. The "Eurobrats" you so call are complaining because their 1800 BD salaries cannot afford to pay 700 BD rents and 1000 BD per semester school fees.

I'll say it again if all else fails............... Fakhem.

ironbutt57

Interview... I am quite convinced I would remember if I attended an interview or not...who cares...If I had and it had been unsuccessful, I would be more than happy to post it here...I have a rather hazy recollection of that and many other conversations regarding prospective future employers..however after the haze cleared..better judgement took over...

Expenses..yes it is expensive, and in many cases impossible to "get ahead" here in the gulf..it is unfortunate..and I do sympathize with those that find it so..however taking it to the internet in a nagative fashion will not serve any other purpose than to make those involved look unprofessional..the opportunity for many at GF today was non-existent for non-rated/non jet time pilots (myself included) until very recently..so look at it from the viewpoint of others...if it is undoable (is that a word?) financially or otherwise then deal with it appropriately..if you do a bit of homework (again) you would see my "eurobrat" comment was in reference to those newbies complaining about their "right" to transfer to widebody flying...not those with financial considerations...

DEC..obviously you are not aware of events that unfolded "post Uberlingen"..if you were, you would not have made that comment...do your homework..

signing out...time to go boating... want to join us ??? It's for sure a more appropriate venue for venting your GF frustrations...we all have them...but like to keep them "in house"...never fancied walking around a neighborhood with all that dirty laundry hanging from the balconies for all to see...cee ya!! Bring some of that beer!!!!

Capt Al Fakhem

You have a good one bud, enjoy the boat, drink lots of beer and have fun. Just please next time dont trash your fellows who cannot afford a boat because they're trying to save to pay school fees.

Masalama
Fakhem

Sal-e

he started with the shafting statement.....how rude.
as for conditions, money etc, i did say they were secondary.....i meant a close second.
and as for pulling my head in, being a newby, i say my opinion when i want. this forum allows me that.

UAXCAPT

I do not intend to call you a liar or anything but:

1.I find it hard to believe that you are flying up to 220 hrs /month..
2.2000 BD for the amount of flying you are claiming does not fly.
3.If you feel cheated why don''t you go somewhere else? Air Arabia will pay you better than this.. 7600 USD/ Month.



I don't write here often nor complain and until recently I was hopeful.

I am an expat FO 320, I really want to (or I should say wanted to) stay and work in Bahrain longer but it come to the point now that I cannot even financially afford to do it anymore regardless how much I want to.

Dear Ironbutt, usually I agree with most of your comments but when you call 320 FO's Eurobrats it upsets me. I want to let you know about my situation which I believe will reflect many Expat FO's situation.

• I worked hard to get this job and I worked and paid for all my training, of course I got lots of loans to pay and have a family to support.
• I have a mortgage which is tied to euro and BD lost it's value against dollar about 30 % in the last 2 years.
• I choose Middle East airline because I thought I can work hard and earn good so I will be out of dept quicker.
• I volunteer to fly every single day that I am off, I try to stay in bahrain at least half of my leave everytime and volunteer to fly.
• My average time away is 150 - 220 hours a month, my typical flight day is Bah - Doh - Bah - Dmm - Bah.
• Couple of times in front of my eyes Local pilots called their mates in rostering and changed their rosters according to their needs.
• I have no idea when or if I will ever be offered to fly 330/340
• My monthly salary is hardly hits 2000BD. It's generally 1800BD - 1900 BD
• You call me RAT and spoiled Eurobrat, but I dont' think as a Training Captain in 767 with the income of double what I earn you can neither emphatise nor capable of symphatising with me. I don't feel like a RAT. I feel as a person who is lied to and cheated on. I do not know who to talk or complain about my problems. So I just write it here to get it out of my chest. I know life is not fair but I believe we should do our best to make it fair for EVERYONE.

Thanks for your time.[/quote]

picobello

Heleheleyani is not lying...

1. 220 hrs TIME AWAY not Block hours......

2. 2000BD It' a fact I do confirm.

3. Of course he is looking for greener pasture and unfortunately he is not the only one...

Fly high

Heleheleyani

Hi UAXCAPT,

I cannot even start to believe that you might think I am flying 220 block time a month, of course it is the TIME AWAY from base,

may I ask some questions to you?

Are you flying for Gulfair?
Are you an airline pilot at all?

maybe I misunderstood your comment about my post, if so please explain why are you so surprised that I am earning not more than 2000 BD a month.

jackbauer

My guess is that's all you are worth!! Otherwise why would you accept it?

Heleheleyani

You completely missed the point, I would happily accept 2000BD a month and I don't mind working hard. What I was trying to say there how come someone think that I can fly 220 hours a month, that surprised me.

Besides, only if I know who you are how much you earn doing what then I explain it better to you what I am worth and what you are worth.

ironbutt57

At the end of the day, someone who comes to the gulf with illusions of getting ahead while having large financial obligations at home is going to be disappointed..one can only base their calculations on the basic plus allowances, any overtime, or excess time away from base allowances (TAFB) is a bonus,and cannot be counted on. 220 hours is not block time dont be confused they are referring to "per deim" hours bagging the company on the internet will do nothing to change things..when GF are in a position to make changes, these matters will be reviewed.

For those whose "bone-to-pick" is direct entry wide-body pilots...well...sorry guys nobody feels sorry for you at all..so can it...have a good day.

Capt Hair Y Balls

Hold your horses here for a second, lets just shed some light on the "you should have known better before you accepted the job" theory.

Facts

1. People were told they would get free fully furnished accommodation "to the highest standard" when they were offered the job, not the fact that they would have to fork out 300-400 BD per month from their own pocket.

2. People were not told that the schooling allowance has not increased in the past 20 years and fact that each school raises their fees each year by 5-10%

3. People were told that the company has a "strict seniority system"

4. People were told to expect career advancement to the widebody fleet and then they suddenly see DE f/o's with less experience taken on the A330 and A340 as well as command upgrades completely out of seniority on the B767 (f/o's with 1 year service got command)

5. People were promised command upgrades according to seniority and then GF hires 15 direct entry captains on "temporary basis" for six months (3 years ago) with the written promise form the HOFO that only if absolutely neccessary they will renew for an additional six months. This was over 3 years ago and they are still employed.

These are indisputable facts and they stem from the lack of planning, and the overall lack of care GF places on its manpower.

ironbutt57

I find "fact" # 4 interesting...

1) What time frame were you given for your advancement to the widebody fleet?

2) Upgrades with one year service??? Who was that?? Think there's a bit of fiction in your facts! (if you are/were familiar with the seniority regarding GT/AUH base, you would see that the upgrades were in "fact" within the prescribed seniority system at the time.)

jackbauer

Hairy nuts, from all the complaining you do I suggest you just quit shooting off at the mouth and leave GF. Why you think anyone would pay the slightest bit of attention to your misguided complaints is beyond me. I could pick through the points you made and dispute them but that would just bring me down to your level and that of the others who are never happy! If it's as bad as all that and the market is so great and you are so undervalued, why are you still here? As IB suggests, if it's sympathy you are looking for you try somewhere else where they entertain childish tantrums. Life is too short to be as miserable as you are.

Left Coaster

Just to let those who think they know...they dont...know that is! Mr. Ironbutt hasn't graced the likes of SIA Cargo with anything more than a curious question or two. I can prove it if you want. But do you really need that? His attitude towards those who feel it is a right to command by virtue of status is well founded, and you only have to read the posts of those who feel it is their turn but may not be "ready" or mature enough to see his reasons. Take him up on the offer of a boat ride, the beer WILL be cold, and you may come away with a good buddy, and a guy who will watch your six with no strings attached.
Mayonaise a lot a words...time for a cold one!

ironbutt57

Mayonnaise....mannaise a lot of crybabies here on Pprune!!!