RIA Saudi Airlines?
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means you are exclude from pay tax at home, but only if you can proof that your center of living is not in the uk - meaning you have to be away for a min of 187 days a year.
moat European countries have this exception in their double taxation agreements of you own a property and generate an income from it this exception is not applicable.
some states depend the application on your registration status, meaning if rent a place and live their with your family this counts as center of living and therefore you are taxable Independent of how many days you are abroad.
Very sensible topic, can end bad very quickly - tax wise
moat European countries have this exception in their double taxation agreements of you own a property and generate an income from it this exception is not applicable.
some states depend the application on your registration status, meaning if rent a place and live their with your family this counts as center of living and therefore you are taxable Independent of how many days you are abroad.
Very sensible topic, can end bad very quickly - tax wise
Depending on what is actually written in the relevant DTA between the UK & KSA will dictate where and in which fiscal jurisdiction income tax is liable on the specific class, or category, of income.
In this case the UK/KSA DTA 2009 will apply, specifically Article 15, Paragraphs (3), where the relevant Article and associated paragraph clearly stipulates which fiscal jurisdiction has the right to tax the specific type and categories of income earned. Assuming a flight crew job with RIA comes with an Iqama (KSA Residents Permit), which it will, then in the particular case of working for RIA on a 14/14 roster that would mean the fiscal jurisdiction that has tue right to tax that salary income, according to the relevant DTA, would be KSA. As the income tax rate in KSA is negligible that will mean very little income tax will be paid. Because the relevant DTA stipulates which fiscal jurisdictions has the right to tax that specific class of income, which will be KSA, then the UK does not have the right to tax that income.
In plain English. You won’t pay income tax on income earned as a pilot working for RIA, firstly because the DTA stipulates that KSA has the right to tax that income and not the UK and secondly because the personal income tax rate in KSA is ZERO that means you will effectively NOT be taxed on that income-all perfectly legal.
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Been reading this thread with interest as I've had many captains down in Oz land mention RIA to me. Everyone Seems to be waiting to see what's on offer. The fact that it's all very hush hush just seems incredibly suspicious and more likely it won't be anything amazing. Lets be honest, RIA could drive a dump truck full if money up to your house, but if you actually have to live in Saudi.. who's going to go for that? Even after a long day of working for any of the world's worst low cost carriers, at least you go home and have a glass of red and a bacon sandwich.
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FlightDetent, Tonker, & flyTheBigFatLady,
Depending on what is actually written in the relevant DTA between the UK & KSA will dictate where and in which fiscal jurisdiction income tax is liable on the specific class, or category, of income.
In this case the UK/KSA DTA 2009 will apply, specifically Article 15, Paragraphs (3), where the relevant Article and associated paragraph clearly stipulates which fiscal jurisdiction has the right to tax the specific type and categories of income earned. Assuming a flight crew job with RIA comes with an Iqama (KSA Residents Permit), which it will, then in the particular case of working for RIA on a 14/14 roster that would mean the fiscal jurisdiction that has tue right to tax that salary income, according to the relevant DTA, would be KSA. As the income tax rate in KSA is negligible that will mean very little income tax will be paid. Because the relevant DTA stipulates which fiscal jurisdictions has the right to tax that specific class of income, which will be KSA, then the UK does not have the right to tax that income.
In plain English. You won’t pay income tax on income earned as a pilot working for RIA, firstly because the DTA stipulates that KSA has the right to tax that income and not the UK and secondly because the personal income tax rate in KSA is ZERO that means you will effectively NOT be taxed on that income-all perfectly legal.
Depending on what is actually written in the relevant DTA between the UK & KSA will dictate where and in which fiscal jurisdiction income tax is liable on the specific class, or category, of income.
In this case the UK/KSA DTA 2009 will apply, specifically Article 15, Paragraphs (3), where the relevant Article and associated paragraph clearly stipulates which fiscal jurisdiction has the right to tax the specific type and categories of income earned. Assuming a flight crew job with RIA comes with an Iqama (KSA Residents Permit), which it will, then in the particular case of working for RIA on a 14/14 roster that would mean the fiscal jurisdiction that has tue right to tax that salary income, according to the relevant DTA, would be KSA. As the income tax rate in KSA is negligible that will mean very little income tax will be paid. Because the relevant DTA stipulates which fiscal jurisdictions has the right to tax that specific class of income, which will be KSA, then the UK does not have the right to tax that income.
In plain English. You won’t pay income tax on income earned as a pilot working for RIA, firstly because the DTA stipulates that KSA has the right to tax that income and not the UK and secondly because the personal income tax rate in KSA is ZERO that means you will effectively NOT be taxed on that income-all perfectly legal.
Because I'm fairly sure this is not correct, if you meet the SRT test you will be liable to pay UK tax.
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UK-KSA DTA. Bilateral Tax Agreement 2009.
The taxation strategy utilised by many BA, Virgin Atlantic pilots, as well as other UK pilots, since the mid 1980’s, to effectively reduce their taxation on their pilot salaries to negligible amounts was engineered by myself back in the early 1980’s. In particular, how the bilateral DTA’s were applied between the UK and many EU fiscal jurisdictions. In this regard France comes to mind, followed by Spain, Portugal, Germany, Ireland & Switzerland.
Back in the mid 1980’s there were literally only a handful of UK pilots utilising the strategy, myself amongst them. A decade later there were hundreds utilising it. I’ve also advised UK and European aircrew colleagues, as well as others over the years, on how to utilise the strategy in fiscal jurisdictions in Hong Kong, North America, Singapore and Australasia.
I was first in Saudi Arabia in the early 1980’s. From 2012 I worked for Saudi Arabian Airlines, where I was amongst a handful of British expats working for that airline on one of their long haul fleets. I commuted each month as an ACM back to the UK & Europe. Throughout the 10 years I was with Saudi Arabian I didn’t pay any UK tax despite visiting every month, having a property there and submitting a Self Assessment Tax Return each year.
BTW, for those “not in the know”, Saudi Arabian was always the highest paid of ALL the Middle Eastern carriers by a long margin and had always been since the early 1980’s. If you were a top scale Captain at that airline, during that time period, then your salary was nearly the equivalent to that earned in the big American legacy carriers and tax free at that. It was the best paid flying job outside of the big USA legacy carriers by a big margin, excepting perhaps Cathy Pacific in its heyday when their “A” scale still existed.
So, in closing, I wouldn’t say I’m an expert on this particular taxation issue or strategy but without being immodest, I’m probably as much as an expert on this subject as you’ll find on this forum..
PS. If I were a betting man, then I’d wager that in 5 to 10 years time, RIA will the one of the best, highest paying, expatriate flying jobs around.
Throughout the late 1970’s, through to the mid 1990’, Saudi Arabian utilised reverse basing for their crews. They had crew bases in Athens, Bangkok, Jeddah, London, New York, Manila & Paris. My wife worked for them during that era, initially being based in Jeddah but subsequently based in Bangkok, then London. During that whole period her salary as a Flight Attendant with Saudia was more than my salary as a junior First Officer at British Airways.
The salary of a Saudia Captain during that era was easily double what an equivalent long haul BA Captain was earning.
Once RIA gets going and starts to expand rapidly, then I wouldn’t underestimate the possibility that it’ll become one of the best, if not the best, expatriate flying job available.
Last edited by VAMY; 17th Feb 2024 at 16:05.
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At the end of the day, if the carrier was serious about offering leading terms and conditions, then they would have painted the town red... or should I say purple? The Arabs love good PR and they would not have skipped a heartbeat in declaring their intention to outsmart their regional rivals and offer better terms and conditions. But they have failed to do so. Ask yourself why?
Tony Douglas said that with regards to future developments from a business perspective, it will be a case of 'tease and reveal'. Sadly, his HR department seems to have adopted the same mindset. If they can't nail their colours to the mast from the outset, how much trust do you have in them to honour what is placed before your eyes in the form of a 'contract'. It seems as if they are on a mission to try and offer the least needed to get the required numbers and all they are doing at the moment is gauging what the demand actually is.
Tony Douglas said that with regards to future developments from a business perspective, it will be a case of 'tease and reveal'. Sadly, his HR department seems to have adopted the same mindset. If they can't nail their colours to the mast from the outset, how much trust do you have in them to honour what is placed before your eyes in the form of a 'contract'. It seems as if they are on a mission to try and offer the least needed to get the required numbers and all they are doing at the moment is gauging what the demand actually is.
As for Tony Douglas and his cohort of ex Etihad & ex BMA pilots before them. Typically, he and his cohort have the usual small minded Brit approach to airline pilot salaries and let’s face it the Brits have never been the best paid of comparable airline pilots. Most Brits are so desperate to be an “airline pilot” that they’re willing to accept the first offer placed in front of them if it means they can occupy a flight deck seat.
Last edited by VAMY; 16th Feb 2024 at 08:47.
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What you say is correct but things will soon change once the airline gets up a running, establish itself, expands its route structure and aircraft deliveries start arriving in large numbers.
As for Tony Douglas and his cohort of ex Etihad & ex BMA pilots before them. Typically, he and his cohort have the usual small minded Brit approach to airline pilot salaries and let’s face it the Brits have never been the best paid of comparable airline pilots. Most Brits are so desperate to be an “airline pilot” that they’re willing to accept the first offer placed in front of them if it means they can occupy a flight deck seat.
As for Tony Douglas and his cohort of ex Etihad & ex BMA pilots before them. Typically, he and his cohort have the usual small minded Brit approach to airline pilot salaries and let’s face it the Brits have never been the best paid of comparable airline pilots. Most Brits are so desperate to be an “airline pilot” that they’re willing to accept the first offer placed in front of them if it means they can occupy a flight deck seat.
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However I’ve found the South Africains to be OK, excepting that they tend to be willing to offer their service for less than what they should do. They also tend to be rather “clannish”. Once you get one of the them in a position of influence the next thing you find out is that a whole drove of them arrive….
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I wouldn’t disagree with your sentiment regarding sharing a flight deck with an Australian.
However I’ve found the South Africains to be OK, excepting that they tend to be willing to offer their service for less than what they should do. They also tend to be rather “clannish”. Once you get one of the them in a position of influence the next thing you find out is that a whole drove of them arrive….
However I’ve found the South Africains to be OK, excepting that they tend to be willing to offer their service for less than what they should do. They also tend to be rather “clannish”. Once you get one of the them in a position of influence the next thing you find out is that a whole drove of them arrive….
Only half a speed-brake
VAMY Thank you. The little gem where Iqama makes you a resident of the opposing party (state) escaped my ken, in full. That inverts the vector at (3); my brain could not see what it read and insisted on a "citizen" interpretation thereof.
Appreciate your time and sharing.
Appreciate your time and sharing.
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SINGAPORE—Riyadh Air expects deliveries of its Boeing 787-9s to begin in the second quarter (Q2) of next year, and is planning for a commercial launch by the end of June 2025. With 39 orders for the 787 variant, plus options for an additional 33, the Saudi Arabian state-owned start-up carrier has also been considering a large order of narrowbodies. Sources believe a decision favoring the 737 MAX is likely, given the Airbus A320neo family’s constraints for near-term availability. But it was a third OEM for which Riyadh Air COO Peter Bellew reserved high praise in remarks made at the Singapore Airshow. Calling Comac’s C919 “the world’s best-kept secret aircraft,” he says the company will build a “world-beating aircraft” within the next decade. “It's great for the industry to have another force out there,” Bellew says, referring to the Shanghai-based OEM. “I wouldn't underestimate Comac for one minute … I think they will be a real force to be reckoned with.” A total of 109 Comac aircraft are currently in service, according to the Aviation Week Fleet Discovery database, with only two outside of China—in Indonesia. The manufacturer has firm orders for another 1,250 aircraft, Fleet Discovery shows. State-owned Comac announced orders from Tibet Airlines (40 C919s and 10 ARJ21s) and lessor Henan Civil Aviation Development & Investment Group (six ARJ21s) on the first day of the Singapore Airshow, during what was the OEM’s first overseas order signing. Riyadh Air expects to begin test flying in Q3 2024, as it works toward getting its air operator’s certificate. “Then we would plan to be operating commercially at the end of the first half of next year,” Bellew says. “So it's all systems go.” Once deliveries of its 787s begin, Bellew describes the rest of its first batch of 39 as coming “quite quickly” over the next few years. The airline’s goal is to “link up pretty much every major capital that there is, to Riyadh,” he says.
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Well, it’s complicated. In my case I was on the old contract until 60,5G. A friend of mine - until 61G. But it was partly because of the COVID break and messy recovery from it.
And lately no expat mentioned that this happened to him at 58. All switch to a retirement contract at 60G.
And lately no expat mentioned that this happened to him at 58. All switch to a retirement contract at 60G.
Last edited by Romasik; 26th Feb 2024 at 19:30.
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“Come to Saudi, it’s a new vibrant and exciting executing place”
Saudi Arabia executes seven people for terrorism
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...8-20240228.htm
Saudi Arabia executes seven people for terrorism
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...8-20240228.htm
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“Come to Saudi, it’s a new vibrant and exciting executing place”
Saudi Arabia executes seven people for terrorism
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...8-20240228.htm
Saudi Arabia executes seven people for terrorism
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...8-20240228.htm
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Bashing the Middle East
I don’t think we have anything to gain from bashing Saudi and the Middle East in general, I’ve lived on and off in the Middle East for 15 years and found it vastly better than living in Europe and the Far East. (lived there for a few years too)
I’ve found that living in Muslim countries have afforded myself and my family a safe moral place to raise my family.
It's not perfect but as a westerner I detest fellow westerners looking down their nose at Arabs and Muslims because of a superiority complex or because they can’t drink beer wherever they want.
If you’re from the U.K. go home for a couple of years, pay huge amounts of tax, enjoy the rain and potholes and get sick, see how long it takes you to get treatment. Confuse your kids so much that they don’t know if they are an Arthur or a Martha and sit in the pub talking about how people in dinghy’s are destroying the country whilst the top 5% keep stealing from you.
I’ll be here in the Middle East welcoming you back when you arrive.
I’ve found that living in Muslim countries have afforded myself and my family a safe moral place to raise my family.
It's not perfect but as a westerner I detest fellow westerners looking down their nose at Arabs and Muslims because of a superiority complex or because they can’t drink beer wherever they want.
If you’re from the U.K. go home for a couple of years, pay huge amounts of tax, enjoy the rain and potholes and get sick, see how long it takes you to get treatment. Confuse your kids so much that they don’t know if they are an Arthur or a Martha and sit in the pub talking about how people in dinghy’s are destroying the country whilst the top 5% keep stealing from you.
I’ll be here in the Middle East welcoming you back when you arrive.