RIA Saudi Airlines?
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Nope. Nothing official, just the usual stuff floating around from person to person. But the breakdown was realistic and all in SAR. I'm inclined to believe it - the numbers are plausible seeing as they have unlimited budget and will need to price themselves significantly above the other three...
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Nope. Nothing official, just the usual stuff floating around from person to person. But the breakdown was realistic and all in SAR. I'm inclined to believe it - the numbers are plausible seeing as they have unlimited budget and will need to price themselves significantly above the other three...
A lot are eaiting for conditions and expect something if they don't meet the expectations they'll withdraw their applications.
Caveat: this is a rumour network! The other thing I heard is that they won't take anyone currently working in Saudi. Presumably to not leave Saudia etc screwed for pilots...
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I agree, Riyadh air should come out with some numbers, all these rumors will eventually be up with a huge disappointment for all the pilots who are expecting “unrealistic” conditions.. and they will not be willing to join anymore.
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The numbers cited here are outlandish. Why do pilots believe they will receive such a high salary simply because they are purchasing football players? Due to the extreme shortage of pilots, the United States is the only country in the world where salaries have increased. Nevertheless, when you are the world's reserve currency, can print indefinitely, and impose a 20% inflation rate on the populace, it is inevitable that salaries will increase.
I want to know what individuals are smoking. Hopium, I suppose.
People should have realistic expectations, and with SAUDIA undergoing major changes over the past few years, why do people believe PIF will simply pay high salaries?
We must wait to see what package is available. People should refrain from publishing meaningless numbers and instead observe what the market dictates.
Nobody is irreplaceable, and there are numerous pilots willing to offer their services at a discount and skip the line. It has occurred in the past and will occur in the future.
I want to know what individuals are smoking. Hopium, I suppose.
People should have realistic expectations, and with SAUDIA undergoing major changes over the past few years, why do people believe PIF will simply pay high salaries?
We must wait to see what package is available. People should refrain from publishing meaningless numbers and instead observe what the market dictates.
Nobody is irreplaceable, and there are numerous pilots willing to offer their services at a discount and skip the line. It has occurred in the past and will occur in the future.
The numbers cited here are outlandish. Why do pilots believe they will receive such a high salary simply because they are purchasing football players? Due to the extreme shortage of pilots, the United States is the only country in the world where salaries have increased. Nevertheless, when you are the world's reserve currency, can print indefinitely, and impose a 20% inflation rate on the populace, it is inevitable that salaries will increase.
I want to know what individuals are smoking. Hopium, I suppose.
People should have realistic expectations, and with SAUDIA undergoing major changes over the past few years, why do people believe PIF will simply pay high salaries?
We must wait to see what package is available. People should refrain from publishing meaningless numbers and instead observe what the market dictates.
Nobody is irreplaceable, and there are numerous pilots willing to offer their services at a discount and skip the line. It has occurred in the past and will occur in the future.
I want to know what individuals are smoking. Hopium, I suppose.
People should have realistic expectations, and with SAUDIA undergoing major changes over the past few years, why do people believe PIF will simply pay high salaries?
We must wait to see what package is available. People should refrain from publishing meaningless numbers and instead observe what the market dictates.
Nobody is irreplaceable, and there are numerous pilots willing to offer their services at a discount and skip the line. It has occurred in the past and will occur in the future.
This becomes particularly relevant when comparing the appeal of living in Riyadh versus Dubai and the goal of creating an Emirates 2.0. Such ambitions, similar to their 2030 vision etc, require substantial financial investment in not only being able to attract but retain skilled professionals.
Therefore, a salary range of USD 20-25,000 for a Captain at RIA could be a possibility. However, if RIA decides to outsource to regions like the subcontinent and Africa, they may be able to pay less than Emirates while still finding an adequate supply of pilots.
As you rightly mentioned, there are plenty of pilots who would be willing to accept lower salaries in order to expedite their career progression, but is that what RIA wants? I feel the answer will be revealed soon.
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While it is important to acknowledge that the current discussions about RIA’s salaries are mere speculation until concrete information is published by RIA, it is worth considering the context of other airlines’ salary offerings. For instance, Emirates is now paying around $13,000 per month for a First Officer and $18,000 per month for a Captain. Given this, it may not be unreasonable to assume that RIA could potentially offer salaries in line with the previously rumored figures.
This becomes particularly relevant when comparing the appeal of living in Riyadh versus Dubai and the goal of creating an Emirates 2.0. Such ambitions, similar to their 2030 vision etc, require substantial financial investment in not only being able to attract but retain skilled professionals.
Therefore, a salary range of USD 20-25,000 for a Captain at RIA could be a possibility. However, if RIA decides to outsource to regions like the subcontinent and Africa, they may be able to pay less than Emirates while still finding an adequate supply of pilots.
As you rightly mentioned, there are plenty of pilots who would be willing to accept lower salaries in order to expedite their career progression, but is that what RIA wants? I feel the answer will be revealed soon.
This becomes particularly relevant when comparing the appeal of living in Riyadh versus Dubai and the goal of creating an Emirates 2.0. Such ambitions, similar to their 2030 vision etc, require substantial financial investment in not only being able to attract but retain skilled professionals.
Therefore, a salary range of USD 20-25,000 for a Captain at RIA could be a possibility. However, if RIA decides to outsource to regions like the subcontinent and Africa, they may be able to pay less than Emirates while still finding an adequate supply of pilots.
As you rightly mentioned, there are plenty of pilots who would be willing to accept lower salaries in order to expedite their career progression, but is that what RIA wants? I feel the answer will be revealed soon.
Salary of $20,000-$25,000 will happen but that includes flight pay and accommodation.
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Emirates aren't paying $13000 for first officers. The most recent salary at the roadshows was £7000/month all in (85hrs). Perhaps higher if they restarted the accommodation allowance but they said they've no plans to at the moment.
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Very shortly after joining, the lure of the higher salaries remains just a number in your bank account whilst the actual reality of the Saudi desert sets in.
The month of Ramadan is quite the killer for any non Muslim, lack of any form of alcohol ( legally )throughout the 12 months becomes a real downer, ladies men have no place to go, ni bars no pubs, the only decent eating places are holes in the wall owned by poor Asians who serve the lowest earning laborers primarily, NOTHING gets done administratively in SV in the kingdom, NO SAUDIA in any position ever does his job except play Snapchat all day long etc etc etc. The list of sandpaper rubbing your skin is endless.
And worst of all most of the FO’s who will be seconded into riyadhair would be from SAUDIA. And they would be the ones who have missed their upgrades in SAUDIA. And then they become a force to reckon with in the cockpit !!! A very very dark force. Bordering on safety every single flight. A complete lack of any basic form of CRM.
These are simply some of the things you may want to consider before seeing the $$$ apparently being offered. Allowances and perks are very very difficult to claim here due to a very poor IT systems. Everything is done the old school way ie paper and stamp. And every person in a position of even the smallest authority expects at least 500-1000 SAR for a stamp or a signature. If their laziness doesn’t kill you first their sheer blatant corruption will ! It’s best not to consider the ‘perks’ while doing your calculations. Because practically you won’t receive any.
So unless you need the $$ real bad ( which is not assured either ), please do not leave your present gig. The salary paid monthly is never ever correct. And as if we don’t have enough on our hands already, we also have to re calculate our payslips every month. And not that anything comes out of the calculation and corrections. You will never see a single SAR more than what they think is right !
Enjoy the brown …
The month of Ramadan is quite the killer for any non Muslim, lack of any form of alcohol ( legally )throughout the 12 months becomes a real downer, ladies men have no place to go, ni bars no pubs, the only decent eating places are holes in the wall owned by poor Asians who serve the lowest earning laborers primarily, NOTHING gets done administratively in SV in the kingdom, NO SAUDIA in any position ever does his job except play Snapchat all day long etc etc etc. The list of sandpaper rubbing your skin is endless.
And worst of all most of the FO’s who will be seconded into riyadhair would be from SAUDIA. And they would be the ones who have missed their upgrades in SAUDIA. And then they become a force to reckon with in the cockpit !!! A very very dark force. Bordering on safety every single flight. A complete lack of any basic form of CRM.
These are simply some of the things you may want to consider before seeing the $$$ apparently being offered. Allowances and perks are very very difficult to claim here due to a very poor IT systems. Everything is done the old school way ie paper and stamp. And every person in a position of even the smallest authority expects at least 500-1000 SAR for a stamp or a signature. If their laziness doesn’t kill you first their sheer blatant corruption will ! It’s best not to consider the ‘perks’ while doing your calculations. Because practically you won’t receive any.
So unless you need the $$ real bad ( which is not assured either ), please do not leave your present gig. The salary paid monthly is never ever correct. And as if we don’t have enough on our hands already, we also have to re calculate our payslips every month. And not that anything comes out of the calculation and corrections. You will never see a single SAR more than what they think is right !
Enjoy the brown …
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So unless you need the $$ real bad ( which is not assured either ), please do not leave your present gig. The salary paid monthly is never ever correct. And as if we don’t have enough on our hands already, we also have to re calculate our payslips every month. And not that anything comes out of the calculation and corrections. You will never see a single SAR more than what they think is right !
Enjoy the brown …
Enjoy the brown …
evrybody could please stop drooling about this place…5k-7000 or even 10 ,apparently been offered as Flaperon777 said ,more than what EK,QR or EY are paying would be still not worth the move.
Although it should be (maybe)a commuting contract you would still have to spend there 18-20 days a month…
Only the big shots in every business are treated well,because if they lose them who will run the show???
On top of that they need to show ,apparently once again,that everything is changing.
You will sign a contract without any value.
If you want I will tell you about many recruitment companies,businesses etc which dealt with those people there and lost their money when those fellas decided not to pay anymore despite contracts signed.
if you have some dignity and you are not desperate please do not allow them to screw you with some fresh cash waved ,it is not a civilized place like most the others around ,Rules and regulations are in place just to make it look what in reality is not and if you go you will Learn it the hard way.
And of course i believe that they will offer maybe a bit more than the other ME3 but not that much
Unless your name is Ronaldo or a big one belonging to some business they are interested at,you are just a timed slave and also Ronnie & co are like the latest pets they need to show off.
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What is realistic here.....
I do agree to a certain extent as you guys are mentioning to think critically before joining, not because I don't think you will be treated fairly but just by adding up the numbers.
I do believe we all know what to expect living in a foreign country with tremendous cultural differences and lack of friends aka social life, however this might be what is on offer. -Many expats end up in compounds and become a community and live on their own little island and it offers a lot of possibilities if one is open for it......see it as an adventure! -but yes be realistic about it and know what you are getting yourself into.
The money aspect,- they should actually mention that sooner rather than later as non disclosure tends to awaken mistrust and is not a successful way forward. Remember they are looking for rated, highly experienced wide body captains here with wast international experience and attached to that are private lives and family aspects as well.
Who in their right mind would leave a wide body position in the western world or for that matter the more liberal areas in the Middle East unless there is something more appealing offered at Riyadh Air, -this could be monetary or career prospects (upgrade, TRI/TRE development etc.). If there are 100s of unemployed 777/787 captains out there willing to work for like 12000:- USD/month and spend 8 days off in Riyadh (as was initially mentioned) without friends and family I must have missed something. Yes a few are around since the folding of Alitalia and maybe the demise of Norwegian long haul but a lot of hiring has been in the cards last 1-2 years so most are probably absorbed already.
If you are investing 30 billion (more than the whole GDP of Iceland) I would assume you want to build a high end/quality product from scratch, I doubt low cost ops cockpit personal is the right way forward at this point. Eventually the airline will be competing with the other ME carriers and things will be different and indeed competitive edge will be required. I don't personally think the silence around this helps and it would be better to be transparent. What's the use to engage in selections just to see say 80% not accepting the offer....how do you turn around and say "Hey we just improved the conditions" without loosing trustworthiness?
Future shall tell but looking at the Korean deal with 19/11 commute and around 15000:- USD/month incl. tax certificate to show at home seems more realistic and would not hit the bottom line at Riyadh Air very hard. That being said as there are no taxes deducted at source they would have to increase pay accordingly.
I do believe we all know what to expect living in a foreign country with tremendous cultural differences and lack of friends aka social life, however this might be what is on offer. -Many expats end up in compounds and become a community and live on their own little island and it offers a lot of possibilities if one is open for it......see it as an adventure! -but yes be realistic about it and know what you are getting yourself into.
The money aspect,- they should actually mention that sooner rather than later as non disclosure tends to awaken mistrust and is not a successful way forward. Remember they are looking for rated, highly experienced wide body captains here with wast international experience and attached to that are private lives and family aspects as well.
Who in their right mind would leave a wide body position in the western world or for that matter the more liberal areas in the Middle East unless there is something more appealing offered at Riyadh Air, -this could be monetary or career prospects (upgrade, TRI/TRE development etc.). If there are 100s of unemployed 777/787 captains out there willing to work for like 12000:- USD/month and spend 8 days off in Riyadh (as was initially mentioned) without friends and family I must have missed something. Yes a few are around since the folding of Alitalia and maybe the demise of Norwegian long haul but a lot of hiring has been in the cards last 1-2 years so most are probably absorbed already.
If you are investing 30 billion (more than the whole GDP of Iceland) I would assume you want to build a high end/quality product from scratch, I doubt low cost ops cockpit personal is the right way forward at this point. Eventually the airline will be competing with the other ME carriers and things will be different and indeed competitive edge will be required. I don't personally think the silence around this helps and it would be better to be transparent. What's the use to engage in selections just to see say 80% not accepting the offer....how do you turn around and say "Hey we just improved the conditions" without loosing trustworthiness?
Future shall tell but looking at the Korean deal with 19/11 commute and around 15000:- USD/month incl. tax certificate to show at home seems more realistic and would not hit the bottom line at Riyadh Air very hard. That being said as there are no taxes deducted at source they would have to increase pay accordingly.
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I do agree to a certain extent as you guys are mentioning to think critically before joining, not because I don't think you will be treated fairly but just by adding up the numbers.
I do believe we all know what to expect living in a foreign country with tremendous cultural differences and lack of friends aka social life, however this might be what is on offer. -Many expats end up in compounds and become a community and live on their own little island and it offers a lot of possibilities if one is open for it......see it as an adventure! -but yes be realistic about it and know what you are getting yourself into.
The money aspect,- they should actually mention that sooner rather than later as non disclosure tends to awaken mistrust and is not a successful way forward. Remember they are looking for rated, highly experienced wide body captains here with wast international experience and attached to that are private lives and family aspects as well.
Who in their right mind would leave a wide body position in the western world or for that matter the more liberal areas in the Middle East unless there is something more appealing offered at Riyadh Air, -this could be monetary or career prospects (upgrade, TRI/TRE development etc.). If there are 100s of unemployed 777/787 captains out there willing to work for like 12000:- USD/month and spend 8 days off in Riyadh (as was initially mentioned) without friends and family I must have missed something. Yes a few are around since the folding of Alitalia and maybe the demise of Norwegian long haul but a lot of hiring has been in the cards last 1-2 years so most are probably absorbed already.
If you are investing 30 billion (more than the whole GDP of Iceland) I would assume you want to build a high end/quality product from scratch, I doubt low cost ops cockpit personal is the right way forward at this point. Eventually the airline will be competing with the other ME carriers and things will be different and indeed competitive edge will be required. I don't personally think the silence around this helps and it would be better to be transparent. What's the use to engage in selections just to see say 80% not accepting the offer....how do you turn around and say "Hey we just improved the conditions" without loosing trustworthiness?
Future shall tell but looking at the Korean deal with 19/11 commute and around 15000:- USD/month incl. tax certificate to show at home seems more realistic and would not hit the bottom line at Riyadh Air very hard. That being said as there are no taxes deducted at source they would have to increase pay accordingly.
I do believe we all know what to expect living in a foreign country with tremendous cultural differences and lack of friends aka social life, however this might be what is on offer. -Many expats end up in compounds and become a community and live on their own little island and it offers a lot of possibilities if one is open for it......see it as an adventure! -but yes be realistic about it and know what you are getting yourself into.
The money aspect,- they should actually mention that sooner rather than later as non disclosure tends to awaken mistrust and is not a successful way forward. Remember they are looking for rated, highly experienced wide body captains here with wast international experience and attached to that are private lives and family aspects as well.
Who in their right mind would leave a wide body position in the western world or for that matter the more liberal areas in the Middle East unless there is something more appealing offered at Riyadh Air, -this could be monetary or career prospects (upgrade, TRI/TRE development etc.). If there are 100s of unemployed 777/787 captains out there willing to work for like 12000:- USD/month and spend 8 days off in Riyadh (as was initially mentioned) without friends and family I must have missed something. Yes a few are around since the folding of Alitalia and maybe the demise of Norwegian long haul but a lot of hiring has been in the cards last 1-2 years so most are probably absorbed already.
If you are investing 30 billion (more than the whole GDP of Iceland) I would assume you want to build a high end/quality product from scratch, I doubt low cost ops cockpit personal is the right way forward at this point. Eventually the airline will be competing with the other ME carriers and things will be different and indeed competitive edge will be required. I don't personally think the silence around this helps and it would be better to be transparent. What's the use to engage in selections just to see say 80% not accepting the offer....how do you turn around and say "Hey we just improved the conditions" without loosing trustworthiness?
Future shall tell but looking at the Korean deal with 19/11 commute and around 15000:- USD/month incl. tax certificate to show at home seems more realistic and would not hit the bottom line at Riyadh Air very hard. That being said as there are no taxes deducted at source they would have to increase pay accordingly.
Would need an extra $5k/m for the risk that they fire/redundant after a year. $5k/m for the effort of moving. $5k/m for the disaster of operations at a new startup. On top the premium for living in Riyadh, another $5k/m. So in total $30k+ needed to be attractive over EK - honestly I don't think I would join even for that.
This wont be on offer anyway, so reality is they will only get misfits and desperados. Same as Qatar, only more extreme.
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From an EK perspective, this was initially hotly discussed in the flight deck due to the possibility of commuting and/or part-time contracts. That is the driver. That's what people want. When that turned out to be untrue, no one spoke about Ria ever again. To get EK or other widebody pilots to leave legacy carriers and live in Riyadh full-time for a startup, you'd need to offer way more.
Would need an extra $5k/m for the risk that they fire/redundant after a year. $5k/m for the effort of moving. $5k/m for the disaster of operations at a new startup. On top the premium for living in Riyadh, another $5k/m. So in total $30k+ needed to be attractive over EK - honestly I don't think I would join even for that.
This wont be on offer anyway, so reality is they will only get misfits and desperados. Same as Qatar, only more extreme.
Would need an extra $5k/m for the risk that they fire/redundant after a year. $5k/m for the effort of moving. $5k/m for the disaster of operations at a new startup. On top the premium for living in Riyadh, another $5k/m. So in total $30k+ needed to be attractive over EK - honestly I don't think I would join even for that.
This wont be on offer anyway, so reality is they will only get misfits and desperados. Same as Qatar, only more extreme.
They will take the foreign Pilots they need but will replace them with Saudi's as fast as possible.
This is exactly what's happened at Saudia. 5 years ago Saudia had 500+ Expat Pilots, now it's down to around 100 or less. The Saudi government sends thousands of young people to the United States to do Aviation related degrees, puts them through the US ATP and returns them to Saudi Arabia to become First Officers.
There will be a short golden period where experienced Captains can make a good amount of money with Riyadh Air before retirement. But everyone dreaming of a great Career, commuting etc with Riyadh Air is doing just that - dreaming.
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All initial managment, first officers and trainers for the first 24-36 months at RIA will belong to SV. Having been seconded to Ria.
Needless to say that only the leftovers and unwanted from SV would be shunted out to the ‘other airline’ with a wink and a “Manager Operations” kind of portfolio to look forward to.
And thus the muddy culture of Saudia is bound to mirror reflect and inculcate itself into the core dna of RIA.
Which would be the exact reason most expat pilots joining today would be leaving within 12 months …
Needless to say that only the leftovers and unwanted from SV would be shunted out to the ‘other airline’ with a wink and a “Manager Operations” kind of portfolio to look forward to.
And thus the muddy culture of Saudia is bound to mirror reflect and inculcate itself into the core dna of RIA.
Which would be the exact reason most expat pilots joining today would be leaving within 12 months …
Last edited by Flaperon777; 22nd Aug 2023 at 07:37. Reason: Spellos
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If you are right which you very well might be then how on earth are Ria going to get airborne ever..... Supply/demand will have to make its way here to make that happen which then would suggest a 25000-30000:-/Month renumeration and a 19/11 commute roster, and then we will all be in line waiting I guess....
If not we will keep on dreaming and so will Ria of ever getting airborne, somehow these things tend to meet somewhere.
If not we will keep on dreaming and so will Ria of ever getting airborne, somehow these things tend to meet somewhere.
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you are forgetting about all the Indians, Pakistanis etc pilots coming from an utter ****holes. No offence here, I have many friends amongst them but it is what it is. For these guys Riyadh is still an upgrade in their lifestyles. If offered on top reasonably good salary RIA will fill their seats fast. And they don't need 700 pilots tommorow. For many its 4 years pain but sets for life.
It is all relevant.
It is all relevant.