RIA Saudi Airlines?
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Italy
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you are forgetting about all the Indians, Pakistanis etc pilots coming from an utter ****holes. No offence here, I have many friends amongst them but it is what it is. For these guys Riyadh is still an upgrade in their lifestyles. If offered on top reasonably good salary RIA will fill their seats fast. And they don't need 700 pilots tommorow. For many its 4 years pain but sets for life.
It is all relevant.
It is all relevant.
Last edited by 778Skywalker; 22nd Aug 2023 at 12:57.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dubai
Age: 43
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are right which you very well might be then how on earth are Ria going to get airborne ever..... Supply/demand will have to make its way here to make that happen which then would suggest a 25000-30000:-/Month renumeration and a 19/11 commute roster, and then we will all be in line waiting I guess....
If not we will keep on dreaming and so will Ria of ever getting airborne, somehow these things tend to meet somewhere.
If not we will keep on dreaming and so will Ria of ever getting airborne, somehow these things tend to meet somewhere.
Only half a speed-brake
Funny thing I learned, studying the EU labour law for crews. (ain't the FTLs!). The number of annual hard-OFF days is calculated to exactly match (no less) the standard business days pattern over the year.
I.e.
52 weeks in a year, four of them are vacation ----->>>>> 28 hOFF
48 weeks remaining, 2 weekends each ----->>>>> 96 hOFF
Public off days (national festivals etc, bank hols) ---->>>>> around 4 per year
= equals = 128 hard-OFF per year. That's what a labour-law worker in a standard job would get and crews need to receive too. To be delivered _AT_HOME_BASE_.
If on a standard job, you went working on Monday at 4 a.m. without seeing your family and stay the whole week on the road to return on Friday by 10 while they are asleep, you are still getting 128 (124 min) wholehearted hard days off. And it won't feel like much.
Please consider that when making up one's mind about any 120-off commuting option. It is much different from crews who LIVE WITH FAMILY (and social circle) at the base because those can enjoy more regular home time through the rostering pattern (4-2 5-3 or whatever overlayed on top of the above). BTW long-haul with rest days downroute reduces that dramatically.
But specifically for commuting... count the chickens you'd be getting..... not forgetting the travel days will be your responsibility. Every airline dispatch and HR just LOVE to have crew available at whim.
I.e.
52 weeks in a year, four of them are vacation ----->>>>> 28 hOFF
48 weeks remaining, 2 weekends each ----->>>>> 96 hOFF
Public off days (national festivals etc, bank hols) ---->>>>> around 4 per year
= equals = 128 hard-OFF per year. That's what a labour-law worker in a standard job would get and crews need to receive too. To be delivered _AT_HOME_BASE_.
If on a standard job, you went working on Monday at 4 a.m. without seeing your family and stay the whole week on the road to return on Friday by 10 while they are asleep, you are still getting 128 (124 min) wholehearted hard days off. And it won't feel like much.
Please consider that when making up one's mind about any 120-off commuting option. It is much different from crews who LIVE WITH FAMILY (and social circle) at the base because those can enjoy more regular home time through the rostering pattern (4-2 5-3 or whatever overlayed on top of the above). BTW long-haul with rest days downroute reduces that dramatically.
But specifically for commuting... count the chickens you'd be getting..... not forgetting the travel days will be your responsibility. Every airline dispatch and HR just LOVE to have crew available at whim.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dubai
Age: 43
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't get where this commuting idea comes from. Emirates, Etihad, Flydubai, Qatar, Saudia, Flyadeal, FlyNas. Nobody does commuting because they decided that it was not cost effective. Saudia tried 20/10 for a while but stopped it.
Riyadh Air have already made clear that their jobs will not be commuting.
Riyadh Air have already made clear that their jobs will not be commuting.
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Italy
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't get where this commuting idea comes from. Emirates, Etihad, Flydubai, Qatar, Saudia, Flyadeal, FlyNas. Nobody does commuting because they decided that it was not cost effective. Saudia tried 20/10 for a while but stopped it.
Riyadh Air have already made clear that their jobs will not be commuting.
Riyadh Air have already made clear that their jobs will not be commuting.
I don't think that you guys really understand what Riyadh Air is about. The vast majority of Pilots at Riyadh air will be Saudi. Vision 2030 while being largely about moving away from reliance on Oil and moving towards other industries like tourism, is also about Saudiisation. The Saudi's do not want Riyadh Air to be another Emirates, full of Expat crew. Saudi Arabia has a very young and rapidly growing population with about 12% unemployment. Projects like Riyadh air are designed to provide high quality jobs to young Saudi's.
They will take the foreign Pilots they need but will replace them with Saudi's as fast as possible.
This is exactly what's happened at Saudia. 5 years ago Saudia had 500+ Expat Pilots, now it's down to around 100 or less. The Saudi government sends thousands of young people to the United States to do Aviation related degrees, puts them through the US ATP and returns them to Saudi Arabia to become First Officers.
There will be a short golden period where experienced Captains can make a good amount of money with Riyadh Air before retirement. But everyone dreaming of a great Career, commuting etc with Riyadh Air is doing just that - dreaming.
They will take the foreign Pilots they need but will replace them with Saudi's as fast as possible.
This is exactly what's happened at Saudia. 5 years ago Saudia had 500+ Expat Pilots, now it's down to around 100 or less. The Saudi government sends thousands of young people to the United States to do Aviation related degrees, puts them through the US ATP and returns them to Saudi Arabia to become First Officers.
There will be a short golden period where experienced Captains can make a good amount of money with Riyadh Air before retirement. But everyone dreaming of a great Career, commuting etc with Riyadh Air is doing just that - dreaming.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: here and there
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UAE vs Saudi Arabia
The working age population(18-60) in SA is approximately 21 million whereas the total Emarati population in UAE is 1.5 million , not sure how many are working age. Obviously , with better opportunities in the UAE and a smaller base , there has been a strong dependency on expat workforce which will decrease over time as the state strongly encourages and incentivizes the local population to take up jobs that have been traditionally expat only.
In the Saudi case , having a large young unemployed population is not an option that any government would like and they should and would focus on "Saudisation" , it makes perfect sense for the future of SA.
Masalama
In the Saudi case , having a large young unemployed population is not an option that any government would like and they should and would focus on "Saudisation" , it makes perfect sense for the future of SA.
Masalama
The working age population(18-60) in SA is approximately 21 million whereas the total Emarati population in UAE is 1.5 million , not sure how many are working age. Obviously , with better opportunities in the UAE and a smaller base , there has been a strong dependency on expat workforce which will decrease over time as the state strongly encourages and incentivizes the local population to take up jobs that have been traditionally expat only.
In the Saudi case , having a large young unemployed population is not an option that any government would like and they should and would focus on "Saudisation" , it makes perfect sense for the future of SA.
Masalama
In the Saudi case , having a large young unemployed population is not an option that any government would like and they should and would focus on "Saudisation" , it makes perfect sense for the future of SA.
Masalama
Turning our attention to Saudi Arabia, there's no denying that the country has a considerable number of young, unemployed individuals.
However, the key question is how many among them are genuinely interested in seeking employment and not just cushy government jobs where they can spend their time on their phones, as pointed out in an earlier post.
From this group, how many are willing to commit to becoming pilots, and more specifically, are they prepared to take on challenging schedules, such as a 2am turn to India in the monsoon?
If other Middle Eastern airlines are any indication, locals prefer layover trips to places like Vienna (if they turn up at all) while expatriates handle the night turns and undesirables.
Therefore, considering these productivity complexities, I think it’s fair to say there will be some requirements for xpats here and there
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dubai
Age: 43
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your argument holds weight, and it's important to compare similar sized, or larger, demographic groups when discussing employment rates. South Korea, for instance, has a significantly larger working-age population, approximately 37.7 million people, compared to Saudi Arabia. In addition, China's working-age population is a staggering 897 million. But both countries (had pre covid) have a noticeable expatriate presence in their airlines.
Turning our attention to Saudi Arabia, there's no denying that the country has a considerable number of young, unemployed individuals.
However, the key question is how many among them are genuinely interested in seeking employment and not just cushy government jobs where they can spend their time on their phones, as pointed out in an earlier post.
From this group, how many are willing to commit to becoming pilots, and more specifically, are they prepared to take on challenging schedules, such as a 2am turn to India in the monsoon?
If other Middle Eastern airlines are any indication, locals prefer layover trips to places like Vienna (if they turn up at all) while expatriates handle the night turns and undesirables.
Therefore, considering these productivity complexities, I think it’s fair to say there will be some requirements for xpats here and there
Turning our attention to Saudi Arabia, there's no denying that the country has a considerable number of young, unemployed individuals.
However, the key question is how many among them are genuinely interested in seeking employment and not just cushy government jobs where they can spend their time on their phones, as pointed out in an earlier post.
From this group, how many are willing to commit to becoming pilots, and more specifically, are they prepared to take on challenging schedules, such as a 2am turn to India in the monsoon?
If other Middle Eastern airlines are any indication, locals prefer layover trips to places like Vienna (if they turn up at all) while expatriates handle the night turns and undesirables.
Therefore, considering these productivity complexities, I think it’s fair to say there will be some requirements for xpats here and there
And I can assure you that young Saudi's see the job of Airline Pilot as highly prestigious and a huge number wish to follow this career path. The Saudi government is willing and are sponsoring many, while many more are funding their Pilot training privately.
As I have previously posted, even prior to Covid, there were 6000-7000 young Saudi's under sponsorship in the United States.
Having said that. In the short term there will be a high demand especially for expat Captains. The numbers of Aircraft arriving in Saudi Arabia will overwhelm the current supply of Saudi Captains.
In total, in Saudi Arabia, you currently have around 220 Airliners. With Saudia set to receive 70+, Riyadh Air 40, FlyNas 250, Flyadeal 30- over the next 5 years. Saudi Arabia as whole will nearly triple it's Airline industry.
As I have said previously. And it's accurate. If you come here as a First Officer, don't expect to be upgraded and don't complain when you're not. You will, with 100% certainty, be gazumped by all Saudi's ready for upgrade.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Spain
Age: 59
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, right. They are going to pay same or less than the Gulf three and expect pilots to move to Riyadh.
He'll be interviewed in person in Riyadh in a future.
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Italy
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I know a guy who knows a guy who has been interviewed online. He is TRE/TRI from a Gulf carrier. He wasn't given any salary info, but was told to "not believe those figures on those Whatsapp messages" 😄
Yeah, right. They are going to pay same or less than the Gulf three and expect pilots to move to Riyadh.
He'll be interviewed in person in Riyadh in a future.
Yeah, right. They are going to pay same or less than the Gulf three and expect pilots to move to Riyadh.
He'll be interviewed in person in Riyadh in a future.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: under the bridge
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: korea
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air India is presently recruiting pilots outside of India as they can't fill the left seats with Indians.... I myself passed the Sim check some time back but will only be available in 3 months so I fail to see an abundance of available Indian pilots. Air India deal is 10000 USD/month and a tax receipt and an additional 2400 USD taxed Pension +5000 USD Bonus/Year 6w on 2 w off paid tickets home. I doubt RIA can attract pilots unless the contract is considerable better than the AI contract.....
10k was standard 737 contract pay 25-30 years ago and 14k was normal for wide bodies.
you guys have to get with the picture and start to realise your worth and start saying NO to these ridiculous low ball offers.
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: Youwish
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys have completely lost the plot if you think $10 a month is a good gig for a wide body Capt based in India with commuting tickets in Economy!
10k was standard 737 contract pay 25-30 years ago and 14k was normal for wide bodies.
you guys have to get with the picture and start to realise your worth and start saying NO to these ridiculous low ball offers.
10k was standard 737 contract pay 25-30 years ago and 14k was normal for wide bodies.
you guys have to get with the picture and start to realise your worth and start saying NO to these ridiculous low ball offers.
How do i give a +1?
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very shortly after joining, the lure of the higher salaries remains just a number in your bank account whilst the actual reality of the Saudi desert sets in.
The month of Ramadan is quite the killer for any non Muslim, lack of any form of alcohol ( legally )throughout the 12 months becomes a real downer, ladies men have no place to go, ni bars no pubs, the only decent eating places are holes in the wall owned by poor Asians who serve the lowest earning laborers primarily, NOTHING gets done administratively in SV in the kingdom, NO SAUDIA in any position ever does his job except play Snapchat all day long etc etc etc. The list of sandpaper rubbing your skin is endless.
And worst of all most of the FO’s who will be seconded into riyadhair would be from SAUDIA. And they would be the ones who have missed their upgrades in SAUDIA. And then they become a force to reckon with in the cockpit !!! A very very dark force. Bordering on safety every single flight. A complete lack of any basic form of CRM.
These are simply some of the things you may want to consider before seeing the $$$ apparently being offered. Allowances and perks are very very difficult to claim here due to a very poor IT systems. Everything is done the old school way ie paper and stamp. And every person in a position of even the smallest authority expects at least 500-1000 SAR for a stamp or a signature. If their laziness doesn’t kill you first their sheer blatant corruption will ! It’s best not to consider the ‘perks’ while doing your calculations. Because practically you won’t receive any.
So unless you need the $$ real bad ( which is not assured either ), please do not leave your present gig. The salary paid monthly is never ever correct. And as if we don’t have enough on our hands already, we also have to re calculate our payslips every month. And not that anything comes out of the calculation and corrections. You will never see a single SAR more than what they think is right !
Enjoy the brown …
The month of Ramadan is quite the killer for any non Muslim, lack of any form of alcohol ( legally )throughout the 12 months becomes a real downer, ladies men have no place to go, ni bars no pubs, the only decent eating places are holes in the wall owned by poor Asians who serve the lowest earning laborers primarily, NOTHING gets done administratively in SV in the kingdom, NO SAUDIA in any position ever does his job except play Snapchat all day long etc etc etc. The list of sandpaper rubbing your skin is endless.
And worst of all most of the FO’s who will be seconded into riyadhair would be from SAUDIA. And they would be the ones who have missed their upgrades in SAUDIA. And then they become a force to reckon with in the cockpit !!! A very very dark force. Bordering on safety every single flight. A complete lack of any basic form of CRM.
These are simply some of the things you may want to consider before seeing the $$$ apparently being offered. Allowances and perks are very very difficult to claim here due to a very poor IT systems. Everything is done the old school way ie paper and stamp. And every person in a position of even the smallest authority expects at least 500-1000 SAR for a stamp or a signature. If their laziness doesn’t kill you first their sheer blatant corruption will ! It’s best not to consider the ‘perks’ while doing your calculations. Because practically you won’t receive any.
So unless you need the $$ real bad ( which is not assured either ), please do not leave your present gig. The salary paid monthly is never ever correct. And as if we don’t have enough on our hands already, we also have to re calculate our payslips every month. And not that anything comes out of the calculation and corrections. You will never see a single SAR more than what they think is right !
Enjoy the brown …
you really don't have a clue what SAUDI Arabia is like in 2023.
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Delhi
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Despite all the money in the world- every month, enduring such a life would still be intolerable. The situation of constantly being over-transmitted, the absence of callsign usage and pilots attempting to handle air traffic control on their own. Always needing to know the destination and speed of other aircraft, followed by “confirm” after lengthy readbacks leads to some of the poorest radio telephony etiquette anywhere in the world. And that’s just overflying the place! God help any soul that would have to suffer that existence.