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EK Salary Review Time Again

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EK Salary Review Time Again

Old 22nd May 2022, 12:23
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Really?

Definitely not EU land.

What company pays FO Ä150k? Captain Ä220k? Or in £ same amounts to even get close to EK salary?
Im sorry. 150000 euros is close to 600000 AED. EK are not paying FOs that much.
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Old 22nd May 2022, 13:05
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Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
Im sorry. 150000 euros is close to 600000 AED. EK are not paying FOs that much.
Its 42k AED with housing allowancE.

Which is £9k after tax Ä10kish after tax depending what EU country.

To get £8k after tax you need £180k minimum.

If you going to compare salary you have to make it more realistic.

Yes with company accommodation means you get 30k AED. Unless youíre living in a tent and living off the land in UK/EU thatís not comparable.
Travel to and from work? That would be Ä300 minimum a month from a salary as an example.

Edit to add: if you get something say like the above provided by company you would have to add your cost plus tax rate you pay to get the true cost.
UK example: £300 in fuel means at 45% tax rate you have to earn £435 to cover that. Think thatís correct maths, you get what I mean though.



Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 22nd May 2022 at 13:54.
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Old 22nd May 2022, 13:18
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@go the extra mile

to round up your sarcasm:

how many airlines featuring the best of the best and only kept the best has such a overwhelming record
Since 2016:

i burned air frame
near miss with a mountain
3 almost CFIT
1 one almost fatal runway incursion

and thatís only what it made to the public.

Just asking ?
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Old 22nd May 2022, 21:31
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@the BigFatLady

Youíre an unethical a$$h0le.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 08:44
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Aiming. I know what i get in my bank account, ok! Working same amount as in the desert, but night and day difference as to how Iím treatedÖ
Did I mention I did have housing in EK? Did I mention that Iím now subscribed to an official state pension systemÖ.
Nothing is perfect, but it works 100pct better (for me).
Schooling could have made a difference, but not in my case any more.

Left behind some great friends but would not return for a 1M dollars after my Ďfairí treatment during covid.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 10:10
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Originally Posted by 5star View Post
Aiming. I know what i get in my bank account, ok! Working same amount as in the desert, but night and day difference as to how Iím treatedÖ
Did I mention I did have housing in EK? Did I mention that Iím now subscribed to an official state pension systemÖ.
Nothing is perfect, but it works 100pct better (for me).
Schooling could have made a difference, but not in my case any more.

Left behind some great friends but would not return for a 1M dollars after my Ďfairí treatment during covid.
Hey I was just being curious. I put it as a question but also info as that is how it has been explained to me by my accountant. When moving to a different country the financials have to be fully looked at fully. Obviously not the be all and end all.

The main thing is you being happy. When you are retired you look back and say ok gave it a go and didnít work out rather than wonder what that would have been like?

Iím pretty chilled out but recently being from the UK I have had enough of the whole country. My cousin recently came back for a year from Australia to see family friends etc. She said her self everyone she has caught up with and the general vibe from everyone is we are all so stressed and depressed. Next 5 years are going to be brutal here financially. She canít wait to get back.

Sorry slight thread drift.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 10:42
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Going to a big ME airline is something that should only be done with a solid game plan in mind - set a target, be it, time, $$ or whatever. Reassess it from time to time, but stick to it.

Having been at one for 20+ years and taken what I could from it, it was clearly time to leave (within the last 6 months). It certainly wasn't the airline I joined in 2000, with less opportunity, much lower remuneration (in real terms) and a MUCH higher BS quotient. I could only recommend going to EK/QR/Etihad with a plan, and then only if it was a step up and left you with experience you could market...but a job for life they no longer are.

TM
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Old 23rd May 2022, 17:43
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Originally Posted by Dropp the Pilot View Post
Mercifully, unions are banned in the UAE. Without threats and intimidation to unnaturally disguise an employee's value, what is revealed is the market value of any employee.

Whatever Emirates is offering, it is the current value of a widebody pilot based in Dubai.

You can't argue with market economics.
Oh, that is funny. FO SWA 737 in the US (not me, but I have seen the W2). Work around 15 days a month, makes $300K + 15% direct contribution. Never a threat of getting fired for calling sick or not following SOP, not living in a sandbox, being able to have life. Yeah, unions are evil.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:43
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There are always at least two sides to every story.

Even pre Covid, Emirates had enough negative press to deter many people so it is a little disingenuous to accept the job offer and then complain when you find out that you really should have listened to all the warning signs. On the other hand, the accelerating manner in which terms and conditions appear to have continued to deteriorate is, perhaps, a genuine reason for complaint.

I joined as a DEC and under no illusions. It was exactly what I expected. I had previous wide body check/training/management experience but I never felt incentivised or motivated enough to apply for either a training or management position at Emirates and I don't regret that decision at all. I believe that I would always have been a very square peg in a very round hole. I enjoyed all my line flying (despite the fatigue) for 8 years, I flew with some great people, I had a decent social life whilst reminding myself that I was at EK primarily to save for retirement and I achieved all my objectives - financial, personal and professional with a bit to spare.

When I was made Covid-19 redundant I was, of course, disappointed but not surprised and ready for it. I have subsequently had offers to rejoin the industry but a combination of degraded health and decent financial security (I think) means that this is not likely to be possible. Nor is it, now, particularly attractive to me.

Did I enjoy working for Emirates? Not really, but I didn't expect to. I enjoyed life with the people I worked with, not so much with the people I worked for. It would be fair to say that Emirates just about 'met my expectations' - which were very low.

Am I bitter about being made redundant? No, not at all. That is all part and parcel of expat life.

Would I go back now if I was to be offered my old job back? No way. The entire industry has changed and HR departments around the world will be rubbing their hands with glee at how they feel that they can continue to exert ever increasing downward pressure on terms and conditions - in all countries without strong unions and strong labor laws.

Good luck to those still at, or who have recently joined, EK. Also to those who lost their jobs and who are still searching for employment. The world has changed and aviation (as a career choice) could well be adversely affected - permanently.

Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 24th May 2022 at 14:14.
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Old 24th May 2022, 09:16
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If you look at the package they offer on their careersite, it is not bad if you compare it with other airlines. This is mainly due to the taxfree salary (free laundry!). People tend to go to EK for the money, to fly a big shiny jet and become a skipper at age 33 or 35. Moreover you can put some nice pictures on Instagram, and live the "dream" as a single in Dubai. No responsibilities.

Then you start a family and their entire life depends on your job and moreover on some a**hole in training or fleet who can and will break you ik they feel like it. RRF or RRT and the pressure is on with high risks. Or some report from crew will get you a visit to HQ.
Can you take such risks with your family? I guess everyone does their own risk assessment. Manage the risks!
Have a backupplan, keep your head low, do your job by the books..rest well on your days off and on layovers. Try not to get caught up in the fear culture which is inevitable because you will see multiple examples around you of friends/ colleagues who will get fired. Have to say this is true for some other airlines as well. If you are local, EK is perfect because the above mentioned does not apply. You are a guest, an expat, a mercenary with a 24hr contract.

Protection of employees is a commodity unfortunately.
All the best!






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Old 25th May 2022, 07:47
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Distinct lack of anything extra in this months pay. In the past any bonus (or should
i say in this case ďrepaymentĒ of money taken from us) has been paid at end of May.

Pay review unlikely to be outstanding!

As a student report might say ďEK sets low standards and then struggles to attain themĒ

As long as people queue up to join nothing will change!
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Old 25th May 2022, 09:34
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Originally Posted by Pif Paf View Post
As long as people queue up to join nothing will change!
As long as people sit and bitch on PPRuNe instead of voting with their feet, nothing will change.
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Old 25th May 2022, 13:44
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Originally Posted by Kennytheking View Post
As long as people sit and bitch on PPRuNe instead of voting with their feet, nothing will change.
there is a steady stream of people leaving for pastures new.they still class it as below the percentage thatís concerning
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Old 30th May 2022, 17:41
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I suspect it will always be below the percentage point that would concern them.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 04:29
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So we will get a pay rise! But, before we all get too excited, wait and take a deep breath. Its such a huge secret they also say they canít tell us how much it will be!! We have to wait until July pay to see!!!!!!

Iím confused. Why tell us we will get a pay rise, but not how much?

So do they really not know themselves yet? Surely not!!!!
Are they still calculating the minimum they can get away with after gauging the reaction to the pay rise announcement? Possibly!!
Do they think 2 months waiting is going to improve morale? Definitely not!

Yes Iíll get replies told by those not at EK and probably from a few of those company indoctrinated staff telling me that Iím lucky to get a pay rise and I should be grateful.
Maybe, but at the same time I will point out that whatever increase we get will not be what we deserve! Whatever increase we get will not be what we expect and whatever increase we get will be a disappointment and rather underwhelming!




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Old 18th Jun 2022, 06:40
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Old 1st Jul 2022, 16:55
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A Realistic Look

The leading thread on the Middle East Forum is Emirates Application 2022. Many keen applicants seeking greener pastures looking for better salaries or career opportunities. Good luck to them all.

No doubt they have all availed themselves of information regarding salaries, allowances, hours, perks, etc. The debates are already running on which airlines pay what and the effects of taxes on take-home pay.

However, there are many aspects that are not covered by this clinical look and are not easily divined from number crunching. One has to look deeper into the systems at play and how they translate into reality. If planning on staying any length of time then trends become important to consider.

Emirates employees have twice this year been promised a salary review in July. We are now in July and apparently working for this new salary but nothing has been revealed as yet. We wait in anxious anticipation. There are various aspects that could be increased which would be welcome. What other changes may be in store are not yet revealed. Changes to how you actually earn the money can be easily revised and have been over the years, mostly resulting in an increase in work for the same pay. This is done primarily with adjustments to the credit and duty hours and manipulation of the Productivity Pay.

The most highly utilized system is to compress rosters in any month where there is leave taken. This effectively claws back the hours without the pilot exceeding the productivity threshold because it is not prorated when leave is taken. For example, in a 30-day month, the Productivity threshold is 85 hours. Anything over this earns good money. However, if a pilot takes, say, 7 days leave within that month, the system will try and maximize hours up to 85 within the 23 remaining days as, effectively, this is free productivity for the Company.

It is not hard to do in the remaining days. A combination of,say, a couple of ULR flights, and a couple of shorter European Flights will put the hours around 85. Bear in mind the pro-rated hours in the month would have been about 65 so the Company has gained 20 hours of Productivity for which it has not had to pay. You have effectively sacrificed those leave days for nothing gained. 20 productivity hours is worth AED 14000 for Captain and 9900 for an FO.

In an office environment, this would be analogous to an employee working over weekends because they took leave.

How effective this is, depends on the exact distribution of leave taken within the month but any pilot who has Leave will generally see a roster compressed to above the pro-rated amount. If the leave period rolls over 2 months then there are two consecutive opportunities for the company to make good. Most feel cheated. If the company actually assigns forced leave for a few days then this adds insult to injury.

This has roll-on effects within the Bidding and Leave systems. ULR flights will not be assigned to top bidders if they are used to maximize productivity by assigning these flights to lower bidders who took leave. The computer is not trying to satisfy bid requests. It is trying to maximise productivity at no cost.

The leave system is impacted because no sane person would take short periods of leave in a month several times a year. They would be likely to still work to the productivity threshold and the leave has effectively been sacrificed for no money. As a result, those who recognize this dynamic use the most optimum way to prevent this by taking the maximum allowable leave within the calendar month to avoid the rest of the month being compressed. If most are bidding for long periods in peak months, then the leave satisfaction is compromised as its harder to grant long periods of leave than short.

This is but a glimpse into the finer aspects that I would advise any prospective new joiner to consider. The reality of working hard on return from leave or before leave tends to dampen any benefit of the leave. Hence there is often underlying fatigue and resentment.

I have not touched on the number of tasks that are distributed that do not attract any credit or duty hours at all despite them being required for a host of reasons from the company. The internet has allowed much to be delegated to one's personal time. Perhaps someone else can list the many examples.

I mentioned trends with respect to remuneration. In a nutshell, the take-home pay has dropped in real terms for the past 2 decades. This is a feature with most airlines. It is well below inflationary increases.

World inflation often hits Dubai hard as so much is imported and transported. Arabian Business reports year-on-year inflation for April as 4.6% and it's only just starting to bite. Transport costs are up 28.8% and Food 8.6%. These costs have yet to filter through and are likely underestimates.

I have my doubts as to whether remuneration will increase much more than 5% though it is long overdue. Let’s see. Unless the package is raised around 10% you are likely worse off next year than now. After all, goods have to be transported all the way here from countries that are already approaching double-digit inflation.

The USD is riding high. But again this can change. I have seen the effect of a weak dollar in the UAE. If one has overseas commitments then consider this. There is Exchange Rate Protection but it's to a limit of 15% for 50% of salary only. There have been much bigger historical swings on the Dirham, almost to the point of debating unpegging from the USD.

There is a reasonable turnover of pilots here. Much experience has left despite the pandemic. Few have left because they simply wanted more money. Many left for lower salaries but sought what they perceived to be a more balanced and predictable treatment. Uncertainty on, leave, medical claims handling, loss of license surety, sickness policies, disciplinary in the event of honest errors, etc. made them seek pastures where they perceive better representation, transparency, and equitable treatment.

I asked a recently resigned TRE why he was taking a lower-paid job as an FO in the USA. The response: “It's how they make me feel”. One can’t argue that….

To all my friends leaving and all those joining, I wish you all the best.

Last edited by Pixy; 1st Jul 2022 at 18:28.
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Old 1st Jul 2022, 19:34
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Wise words. The race to the bottom continues unabated. EK will never change unfortunately.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 22:22
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Originally Posted by sluggums View Post
Wise words. The race to the bottom continues unabated. EK will never change unfortunately.
completely agree with this, canít tell you how many clowns I fly with telling me ďthe grass isnít always greenerĒ Iím sure whatever they offer will be chicken feed.

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Old 4th Jul 2022, 20:10
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Not long to wait, when do we get those payslips again?
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