Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 11th Dec 2020, 01:14
  #1 (permalink)  
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Muted

What happened to all the vociferous EK pilots?

Lost the will to live?
All been fired?
Can't pay their Etisalat wifi bill?
New purge of social media actives from the Seventh Floor Lubyanka?

I'm betting on the latter.
Dropp the Pilot is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 07:34
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Move along, move along now! I'm not EK but I am ME. I think the redundancies/terminations discussion overall has evolved into two distinct camps; the guys and girls at home who have now lost the impetus to be vociferous (after all whats the point?) , vis-a-vis anyone "lucky enough" to still be on the payroll . . . . . .
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 07:42
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Perhaps those that remain are fearing the forced vaccination programme that may start up soon...What a frightening new world we're existing in!
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 08:24
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Any different from being forced to have Yellow Fever, Polio and Smallpox vaccines back in the day? There were many countries that you couldn't travel to, back in that day, without proof of inoculation so why would this be any different?

Quite frankly I'm all for anything that gets us all out of this ridiculous hole the world's governments have got us into!

Last edited by White Knight; 11th Dec 2020 at 12:08. Reason: PPRUNE managed to lose the quote!
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 08:33
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Interesting. I'm not too old to remember thalidomide..... a drug used to relieve morning sickness.... look how that turned out. These new vaccines, all of them, have been rushed through in record time. The drug companies involved have been granted legal indemnity protecting them from being sued down the line. Why?

It normally takes around 10 years to have approval for such drugs, in contrast we have seen these rushed through in 8 months. I also believe that the UAE have sourced their vaccine from dragonmart.... good luck.
what-to-do is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 10:05
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WK,
By your own words, it is the World's governments that have got us into this ridiculous hole NOT the virus. Therefore we should not be depending on a vaccine to get us out of the said hole!

Implementing several different vaccines on a global scale will pose bigger health risks than any previous inoculation programmes through sheer scale. At this point in time there is nowhere near enough public information for individuals to make personal, informed decisions.

At what point did you decide that personal choice and liberty was no longer important?

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

We should all be very mindful of what we allow in this life...
ClassCbird is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 10:08
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Dropp the Pilot

The most vociferous ones were culled. When I looked at the names of those that were made redundant it was people I thought had a backbone and would stand their ground. For those that were 'lucky' and stayed they have witnessed an escalation of the climate of fear with the introduction of a system to measure the performance metrics of pilots. I may be wrong but it isn't just the piloting skills being measured, but things like sickness, medical usage, DEWA usage etc. Creating a metric such as this for pilots means no one will speak out for fear of being placed in the lowest scoring group who are most likely to be made redundant next time. Fantastic system for a numbers driven organisation such as EK but completely flawed on many levels if you examine the idea closely. Definitely a system introduced by very clever accountants, problem is they tend to ignore things that can't be measured such as experience. The cost of everything but the value of nothing. There are also definite flight safety implications if indeed such an atmosphere has been introduced, no one operates to the best of their abilities under such pressure. I have a great deal of sympathy for those still there, EK pilots are some of the best in the world just a terrible shame about the management.....

Sorry for the digression but essentially they are all too scared to say anything! And I don't blame them. The underlying threat of losing your job has a massive impact on behaviour!

If those that were so cruelly cast out feel as I do then they are probably mildly relieved and are glad to be home, glad to have the foot of a vindictive, inept management off our necks and busily making plans for the inevitable upswing in aviation or new careers. I think we are the lucky ones.......
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 10:11
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what-to-do

You are kind of right. New drug discovery does take a long time to become standard of care. However there have been lots of exceptions. Car-T treatment for some blood cancers was given approval after only Phase 1 testing due to 90%+ response rate. And it's not alone. The FDA and EMS have process for this.
There are lots of scary rumours going around about these vaccines. Mostly by those that think 5G is also responsible for virus spread,but none of these rumours not supported by science.
The corona virus has been known about for a long time. SARS, swine flu, MERS are all part of that virus group. Just the mutated strain has changed. This has helped with expedited drug process. So no, it's not a conspiracy.

The testing of thalidomide is in no way near the quality of testing these vaccines have gone through. It would seem the medical testing learned from mistakes and adapt, just like we do in aviation. And that is a very good thing indeed.
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 10:16
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ClassCbird

And what experience /training do you have to make a personal choice re the vaccine? Not sure social media posts/videos count do they?
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 11:08
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Don, My body is my experience thank you very much! And my body is MY right, nobody else's.

The example of blood cancer is a poor comparison. That is testing the safety of a drug to use on somebody who already has a high fatality disease! Weighing up risk vs. reward in that scenario is much simpler! When talking about vaccines we are talking preventative medicine. i.e. we are worried about the risks the vaccine poses to somebody that is otherwise perfectly healthy. All vaccines come with risk, not all people are at significant risk of Covid19. Deciding how acceptable that risk is depends on the risk of the catching the disease multiplied by the risk of developing serious illness! (Just read up on yellow fever vaccine risks if you don't already know).

The point is not to say any of these vaccines pose a high risk, but I do not believe everybody should have them. Making them available to those most at risk of catching SarsCov2 and to those most at risk of developing serious Covid19 symptoms is appropriate. However not at the cost of personal choice. There is no need to mandate these vaccines, especially if they are so effective and safe! Surely enough people will be queueing up for them?

However rare possible serious side effects prove to be with these vaccines, is it worth risking your medical license? This should be a personal choice!

Sorry Dropp for hijacking your thread...

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Old 11th Dec 2020, 11:30
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Don,

Never mentioned any conspiracies. There is simply insufficient data to unequivocally say within the realms of scientific certainty that any of the vaccines are 100% safe now, or in the future. To suggest anything else is foolish. As i mentioned, drug companies have been given legal indemnity. Who would you sue in case of vaccine issues down the road?

Now, I am not suggesting that these vaccines are indeed dangerous, but, I reserve the right to not be vaccinated.
what-to-do is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 12:16
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Originally Posted by ClassCbird
WK,
By your own words, it is the World's governments that have got us into this ridiculous hole NOT the virus. Therefore we should not be depending on a vaccine to get us out of the said hole!
The world's governments that have got us into this hole is what I said. Correct. And I agree it's NOT the virus... However, these same governments will not reverse their stances now because the loss of face is, for the leaders, far too great!

Maybe I'll rephrase; anything that helps us get out of this hole is welcome. I fully understand that many people are reluctant to subject their bodies to a new, rapid vaccine; however even vaccines that have been around for years can cause long term illness! Just ask my wife, who reacted badly to the Hep B when it was foisted on her by the EK clinic many many years ago!

Mind you, many saying they won't take this new vaccine probably stuff their faces with Maccy Ds followed by couple of post prandial smokes. And they don't see the irony
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 14:50
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Thread Drift of the Year Award.....
Dropp the Pilot is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 16:53
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Back to the topic...

Once the gestapo blocked PPRuNe the posts decreased. And lately Iím guessing the ďsurvivorsĒ are either unmotivated or feeling The Stockholm Syndrome full on.
Whatís left of morale at EK? Iím guessing itís all about surviving this crisis long enough to find something else.
I enjoyed my time there, but they did me a big favour when they showed me the door.
Iím one of the lucky ones.
Juan Heych is online now  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 17:04
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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“The world's governments that have got us into this hole is what I said. Correct. And I agree it's NOT the virus..“

Oh really white knight, the virus does not exist, it is just the evil governments worldwide who made this up😂

And of course your flights on the A380 were always full, according to your observation.

Last edited by FlyingCroc; 11th Dec 2020 at 17:34.
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 18:50
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Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by ClassCbird View Post
Don, My body is my experience thank you very much! And my body is MY right, nobody else's.
Very well answered, you are indeed a ClassCbird!
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 18:51
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Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
ClassCbird

And what experience /training do you have to make a personal choice re the vaccine? Not sure social media posts/videos count do they?
I ask you the same question back.
14 6 is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2020, 18:54
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Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by Dropp the Pilot View Post
Thread Drift of the Year Award.....
Sorry, I guess we are all just shell shocked and speechless!
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 20:42
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Of course the virus is real and was not created by governments. But the threat has been there for several decades and nothing or very little was done while zillions were poured into useless military hardware which was never used and never will be .

THE threat to 'our liberty' and way of life at least in the eyes of the West was the big bad red menace, who in fact were too poor and too few for any war whereas it turned out to be accidental actions by some Chinese peasants
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 08:09
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Can you choose which vaccine youíll be having? Or do you have to accept the Chinese one bought by the UAE?
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