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from EK .......DEC to RYR

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

from EK .......DEC to RYR

Old 12th Jul 2018, 18:57
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Banana Republic
Posts: 12
from EK .......DEC to RYR

Guys, somebody recently did this move? Could you share some informations. Or PM me pls.
- how was the process
- how long does it take ... from sending application to do SIM to join RYR
- how is training for non type rated .... time, cost, bond
- what chance to get base you looking for /non UK
- monthly net salery (average all incl. +-500eur)

Thank you

PS: I know it is Middle East forum .... I am EK driver and focus in to infos from EK drivers .-), thank you for understanding



Thanks
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 20:25
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
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Originally Posted by chmila
PS: I know it is Middle East forum .... I am EK driver and focus in to infos from EK drivers .-), thank you for understanding
EK driver? Volvo or BMW?

Not being funny but herein lies some of the problem. Hardly surprising that senior management look down their noses at us when we describe ourselves as Ďdriversí.

We are PILOTS and we FLY airliners! Describing it as anything less does us all a huge disservice and quite frankly insults our profession.

You seem suited to RYR chmila; good luck working for arch muppet MOL!
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 21:00
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Originally Posted by White Knight View Post


We are PILOTS and we FLY airliners! Describing it as anything less does us all a huge disservice and quite frankly insults our profession.

Havenít we as EK Pilots insulted our profession enough with our appalling T&Cs and severe abuse we take on a daily basis?
We have nothing to be proud of or anything to hold our heads high about.
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Old 12th Jul 2018, 21:48
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by White Knight View Post


EK driver? Volvo or BMW?

Not being funny but herein lies some of the problem. Hardly surprising that senior management look down their noses at us when we describe ourselves as Ďdriversí.

We are PILOTS and we FLY airliners! Describing it as anything less does us all a huge disservice and quite frankly insults our profession.

You seem suited to RYR chmila; good luck working for arch muppet MOL!

+1
couldn't agree more
Newcomer2 is offline  
Old 13th Jul 2018, 03:13
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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But harsh white knight no ? Itís just an expression and what he calls him or her self is up to them . The status of your profession and the compensation that goes with it is dictated by supply and demand . Not by fancy words or titles . Also , since we work for an employer who gives us not rights , no unions , changes our contract at will ... probably not right to get on your high horse about Ryan Air .
Do you really think management is rubbing itís hands when one of us refers to us ourselves as a driver and that is adding to the long hours we fly ...

Sorry about these drift . Would love to hear experience of anyone who did indeed do that transition . You never know !
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 05:45
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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Originally Posted by thatwasclose
Also , since we work for an employer who gives us not rights , no unions , changes our contract at will ... probably not right to get on your high horse about Ryan Air .
As many problems as we face, some of which you point out, we still don't have to pay for our simulator, hotac or uniform (how helpful is the union here?) The race to the bottom is not helped by our own attitudes.

An Airline Captain is someone who can lead and make decisions without being 'scared' of management; a driver on the other hand is just a driver...
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 06:18
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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Well we will just agree to disagree.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 06:58
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Separate to dominate, no wonder itís so easy for the management to step on us... such an awesome question wasted on this ďdriverĒ bs, to tell you the truth reading the replies above itís actually offensive to drivers calling pilots that. If only calling me captain would solve my problems life would be soooooo much easier.
Looking forward for some real answers on the topic.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 07:29
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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white knight.
Have a look at the latest bs update in your mailbox and look for 2 pix used next to the relevant fleets... What a coincidence...
Wow. very sensible we are...
Can someone indeed pls answer the very relevant question at the start of this tread.
This tractor driver is also looking at this scenario.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 08:21
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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The ridiculous replies to simple and relevant questions about a career move is exactly why I wanna get out of this place.

Iíd rather hang out with any driver than some of the high and mighty pilots around here.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 08:26
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Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
As many problems as we face, some of which you point out, we still don't have to pay for our simulator, hotac or uniform (how helpful is the union here?) The race to the bottom is not helped by our own attitudes.

An Airline Captain is someone who can lead and make decisions without being 'scared' of management; a driver on the other hand is just a driver...

Dear White Knight ......
thank you for judge me .... I like this union and fellowship, when we can support each other ...

1. DRIVER? ...... little humour and irony in our dark days ... some some like TRACTOR and SCAREBUS DRIVERS which we use on daily base. Does it really talk about us, how professional we are ... ... not really ... I rather see guy who is using irony and humour but is able to fly and do not hit the ground in DME, JFK etc.

2. UNIFORM ...... you right we look cool and fancy and high professional in our uniforms, but it is company look and PR not yours. I do not know how about you, but I can fly even in jeans and still consider my self AIRLINES CAPT, I do not need to wear uniform to proof my status ... it is about me ....

3. EK vs RYR
please and ones again PLEASE dont judge me in way you do .... if I am SUITED to RYR or NOT ...... this is showing you, as absolutely disrespect person. And you should be honest and leading by example in your fancy uniform as airline captain, right .-)

Everybody from us has different reason to join, to stay or to go. IN or OUT EK or any other company. There are guys from third world countries .... They have no chance to go back or all valid reasons to stay in EK. There are guys they leaving to China ... to horrible environment but huge paycheck .... and they have there reason too. And there are guys like me, they would be happy to go even to evil RYR .... with no uniform, no sims and mr. MOL. Me personally, I take all this minuses, because I get some pluses too .... like life in home country, sleep every day in own bed, roster 4/5, be able to plan few months ahead ... kids birthday, Christmas, camping with friends in summer etc.

If I can ask you WHITEKNIGHT .... if you do not have relevant answer to TOPIC, do not waste your life with answering. Open rather a halal beer, go outside your fancy MS villa and enjoy stunning view on Burj Khalifa and yellow sky.

..... so guys, somebody has any relevant information's, thank you in advance ..... TRACTOR DRIVER Chmila

Last edited by chmila; 13th Jul 2018 at 09:52.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 10:40
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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EK is the Ryan Air of Long Haul except Ryan Air now has unions and is gaining respect.

Good reply Chmila.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 10:55
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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At a previous airline the MD called aircrew "glorified bus drivers"
He was never forgiven
Wayne Kerr
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 11:20
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Join Date: May 2006
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Arrow

Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
As many problems as we face, some of which you point out, we still don't have to pay for our simulator, hotac or uniform (how helpful is the union here?) The race to the bottom is not helped by our own attitudes.

An Airline Captain is someone who can lead and make decisions without being 'scared' of management; a driver on the other hand is just a driver...
WK if you do not have any relevent information to this topic, go back and enjoy the fresh air from your MS terrace and concentrate on the important things in life, please.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 15:56
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by chmila View Post
Guys, somebody recently did this move? Could you share some informations. Or PM me pls.
- how was the process
- how long does it take ... from sending application to do SIM to join RYR
- how is training for non type rated .... time, cost, bond
- what chance to get base you looking for /non UK
- monthly net salery (average all incl. +-500eur)

Thank you

PS: I know it is Middle East forum .... I am EK driver and focus in to infos from EK drivers .-), thank you for understanding



Thanks
So I will try to answer as best I can.

I have been at RYR for a year after many years at EK.

From submission of application to the interview was about was about two weeks.

From sim assesment and interview to a job offer was about 5 days.

I got the base i asked for, and would not have left had I not gotten the base I sought. I had other job offers.

You will be offered a RYR contract or a Storm contract. In the former you are a full time employee whereas in the latter a contractor. Basically in the latter you will set up a company, offer services to RYR and get paid per hour. You then claim back expenses that you offset against tax. You will make about 1500 per month more on a storm contract with no employee rights, sick lve etc.

Once you join training takes about 3 months. The training is designed for cadets. It can be very frustrating at times as the trainers are fairly inexperienced. They will get you through a type rating and the company SOPs but there is very little background knowledge to pass on. That said in fairness they are eager to help and in my experience went out of their way to get answers. Basically itís a regurgitation if manuals. SOPs are very rigid to the point of being pedantic. (More that EK). The training caters for the lowest common denominator.

You will foot the bill for accomodation during training which I was not too pleased about. Cater about 5000STG in all unless you plan to stay in some creaky humid place.

The company culture from the Flt ops management and training management is a breath of fresh air compared to Ek. There is empathy, there is fairness, and contrary to popular belief they are very reasonable. They are also patient, and I have not seen any vindictive streaks. There is a good and healthy safety culture. How it was before I do not know. I do know that when I make mistakes I am definitely more open about it and quite frankly keen to share, something I wasnít always able to do at EK for reasons that are obvious. There are a lot less Monday morning quarterbacks.

You can expect one month off per year. There is no visibility in how this is allocated. You have a fixed 5 On, 4 Off roster which I find very good. Suffice to say that my days off have averaged 14 per month. You also have 10 days of adhoc leave which you bid for. I have joined them to my days off and have 2 additional periods of 13 off in a row apart from my month off.

You will Iíll work hard. The earlies are tough and often 4 sectors but the 4 days off after are good for recovery. There are no deep nights. Late landings are midnight. Sleep quality has improved tremendously.

You can expect about 6500-7500 after tax on a RYR contract and about 7500-9500 on a storm contract. Assigned Base does alter these figures albeit slightly.

All in all for me the move was positive.

The positives are definitely the roster pattern and time off. The safety culture. The country where i live. Leave is far better than what EK gave me even though I was reasonably senior.

The downsides are the equipment, the costs incurred by the employee such as sim accommodation, uniforms etc, and the salary as well but to a lesser extent.

Hope that helps and best of luck. Itís not for everyone but itís worked for us.




Last edited by Noleave; 13th Jul 2018 at 20:15. Reason: Typos
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 16:04
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Noleave

Your response is a class act.
It shows that getting away from EK might bring back to life some healthy brain cells.
Thanks

glo
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 16:18
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by chmila View Post
Guys, somebody recently did this move? Could you share some informations. Or PM me pls.
- how was the process
- how long does it take ... from sending application to do SIM to join RYR
- how is training for non type rated .... time, cost, bond
- what chance to get base you looking for /non UK
- monthly net salery (average all incl. +-500eur)

Thank you

PS: I know it is Middle East forum .... I am EK driver and focus in to infos from EK drivers .-), thank you for understanding



Thanks
People like you who refer to yourselves as "drivers" deserve what you get, for prostituting yourselves, either in emirates or similar bottom feeders like ryr should remember this was once a profession
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 18:37
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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The politically correct is everywhere now .. Even on a forum that should work like a "pub" .

RIP civilized world .
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 23:10
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Safety culture? If this is fresh air compared to EK, I start to be scared for you guys.
Calling fatigues is simply not an option in Ryanair. Either you are sick or you refuse to fly, and get sacked.
The 4 cabin crews that wrote this letter were fired the day after. Have a good read.

Good morning
As you are probably informed already we are the PMI crew that overnight in CGN and got a meeting to DUB because we refused to fly on captain discretion. We want you to be aware of our situation and everything that happened between the 08/07/18 and 09/07/18.

ďOn the 08/07/18 we were operating a MAD-CGN flight starting from PMI base (12:15z departure). Due tu lack of personal in PMI and slots in MAD we knew already before leaving PMI for the last two sectors that we would have been on captain discretion. Despite all that we left anyway.

We landed in CGN 20:48z plus we had to wait an extra 20min to be able to disembark the PRM.
As procedure the captain asked the all crew if they were willing to fly back on discretion. The First Officer agreed on doing that but us, as cabin crew we all agreed that we were not fit to fly anymore.
The captain understood our decision and called the duty pilot to explain him our situation and the duty pilot understood our decision as well and told us that was our legal right to do that. He than informed that captain that someone from DUB would contact him.
The captain then received a call from a manager in DUB asking him to force his crew to operate the flight back. The captain refused to do that and let the manager speak to the cabin crew individually.

The first cabin crew who spoke with her was the N2.
The manager told him if he was refusing to fly he then answer that he was not refusing to fly but he was unfit to fly and that if something happened safety wise he wouldnít be able anymore physically or mentally to deal with the situation. She then repeat that he was refusing to fly so he repeat the same answer. She than asked which day was for him and how was possible that he was fatigue on his 4th working day. He state that he has been working three days plus the twelve and more hours of work that he was doing that day. The manager than said that if he was tired was just because he was not taking good care of himself and that he was disrespecting the passengers by refusing to operate the flight back because they wouldnít be able to fly to PMI because of him. He than replied that it would be disrespectful to the passengers if he would operate a flight when heís not fit to and not mentally or physically capable anymore to guaranty the safety of the flight and the passengers.

The second cabin crew who spoke with her was the N4. The cabin crew explained to her the situation telling that she was already flying on the day off as a FLEXI day and she was not fit to operate any flight anymore as it would be against safety procedures. Then the manager replied putting pressure on the N4 asking her if she was willing to disappoint the passenger for just 15min of discretion. (At the beginning when we landed we were expecting 15min of discretion that already at that time after all the waiting where increased).

She then spoke to the N1 asking her to convince her crew to operate the flight back, so she asked again the crew and we all agree together once agin that the flight wouldnít be safe anymore if operated by us because we were not fit to fly anymore and also there was no water suitable for drinking available onboard for neither passengers or cabin crew. So she report to the manager the decision and the manger intimidated the all crew by telling her that if they would refuse to operate the flight back they would be scheduled for a meeting in DUB the day after.
The phone call ended with the crew taking the intimidation and still refusing for safety reason to operate the flight back.

The captain called operations asking to fly back empty as the flight crew still felt fit to fly. Operations informed the captain that DUB wanted the crew to overnight in CGN and go to DUB the day after for a meeting. Then the crew left the aircraft and went to the crew room to call crew control to know the details about the overnight and the flights for the day after.
We were informed that our flight to DUB the day after would have been at 05:55z to MAN and then from there to DUB at 11:00z. After receiving all this informations and knowing that neither the hotel or the lift to this one was arrange we were questioning to crew control about our rest period. We got as answer that the flights and the meeting in DUB the day after were not consider as duty so the proper rest time was not needed.
After being waiting a at the airport for at least another hour we decide to call crew control again as calculating all the time to reach the hotel and the time to come back we had left only 4h sleeping. We got once again the same answer and weíve also been told that we could refuse to come to the meeting but that may had repercussions. At this point we just gave up and after waiting another 15min we reach the hotel in CGN at 02:15L.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 23:52
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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And this is the memo that the company issued soon after.
Speaks volume about the company culture.


peak
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