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Emirates - Trying to understand the financial Equation

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Emirates - Trying to understand the financial Equation

Old 12th May 2018, 07:29
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: toronto
Posts: 12
Emirates - Trying to understand the financial Equation

Like all of us Iím trying to get a head, however, tough times for everyone. Before I consider this I need to gather financial facts and determine if its smart from an accounting standpoint. Fellow Pilots Iím flying a business jet making 120k Canadian a year. Decent lifestyle, however, the major cities including a one-hour drive from the downtown core isnít cheap. Rent has also sky rocketed. Anyways lets jump right into thisÖ.The cost of living as a single guy living downtown (condo) with a mortgage includes the following paymentsÖFixed monthly ( all numbers are Canadian)
Mortgage 1750.00 month
Maintence fees 500.00 month
Property tax 220.00 month
Electiricity 120.00
Cable/internet Ė 175.00 (lets consider this fixed)Cell 150.00 (and this is a good month Ė Canadians providers are terrible)
Total Fixed - 2915
Variable monthlyCar payments Ė 500.00
Car insurance Ė 200.00
Fuel Ė 225.00Food Ė 650.00 ( this may seem high for a single guy. Lets assume this includes date money too)Total Variable 1575.00 Grand Total Fixed and Variable 4490.00At 120,000k a year which is about average for a challenger captain in Canada that equates to 10,000 gross per month. The government takes 4000.00 which leaves me with 6000.00 per month. Take my fixed and variable expenses and voila I have 1510.00 left over. No retirement, no shopping, maintenance for a car Öbla bla bla. Having a mortgage is the cheaper route if you can gather the down payment considering rent these days in about 2500.00 to 2800.00 a month. Now itís your turn. To my understanding first officer salary is 30,125 which equates to 8200.00ish. You get 14325 for housing - 3800.00usd. So, your fixed cost would be what? House is taken care of right? If not how much is being added on top of the allowance? Please donít say it depends where you live. The whole ďdepends where you live ďapplies to everywhere and anywhere and not just the middle east. I noticed condos beside the Marina for less than what EK grants. Does that seem accurate? Yes Iím aware rent can be raised. It happens here too. So for the single people or even ones with partners can we assume rent is free?Emirates fixed cost
Rent free? (therefore no other fees involved right?)
Electricity for the month?
Cable/internet?
Cell phone?

Emirates VariableCar ( donít want to know the payment. Just curious if I could use a taxi service for less than a 500.00 a month?) Lets say Iím living downtown.
Car
Insurance Ė Expensive??
Gas - ??
Food? ( dinners in Toronto for two - about 150.00 if your doing drinking as well. A glass of wine at a fancy establishing is about 18.00. Similar to Dubai?If a first officer is making 8,200, has no rent, property tax, maintenance fees to pay that leaves the followingÖ.car, gas, internet, tv, insurance for a car, electricity, cell phone and food. Letís just pretend for one second and picture all the above expenses costing 3,000. That leaves you with 5,000 at the month end. On that saving plan is 60,000 a year realistic to nest away? Is there anything I should be made aware of? What am I not accounting for? Making 120k in Canada is okay money, however, that salary gives you a net profit of 6000.00 a month. Then comes paying for the house which chews up a lot. Anyways Iím curious what insight you can bring. I donít want to underestimate this by any means . Thank you!
crewdude is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 17:43
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Dubai
Age: 32
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what you are not accounting for is your sanity...

try to read some of the other threads.. and your estimates of savings have many flaws.. there are many other expenses in Dubai that you have no idea of. That you will realize when you are actually arrive here and start living .. hard to explain in a single post..

my suggestion.. come for interview .. experience Dubai.. ask around .. see how you feel then..

you are single now.. but do u intend to get married and have kids at some point ?? do u even know what expense kids are in Dubai..?
MusingMonk is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 19:59
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Originally Posted by MusingMonk View Post
what you are not accounting for is your sanity...

try to read some of the other threads.. and your estimates of savings have many flaws.. there are many other expenses in Dubai that you have no idea of. That you will realize when you are actually arrive here and start living .. hard to explain in a single post..

my suggestion.. come for interview .. experience Dubai.. ask around .. see how you feel then..

you are single now.. but do u intend to get married and have kids at some point ?? do u even know what expense kids are in Dubai..?
Is it possible to exclude sanity and emotion from this thread? I honestly dont know the expenses and that's why I came here. I was hoping to get some information. A little goes a long way! Please tell me what am I missing? I pay 48,000 a year in tax at 120K. That`s 40 percent of my pay check. I would consider that a big expense right? In addition my `roof over my head` expense that comes with no allowances cannot be avoided. I need somewhere to live right? Tax and house payments are the two biggest expenses which you dont get dinged on. Again, I`m not referencing working conditions or scheduling. Strictly accounting.

As for kids? I`m a one man band. I have no one to worry about but myself. Thanks for responding M-Monk. I appreciate any information you can give.
crewdude is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 20:19
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Check your PMsg
Neektu is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 21:23
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: not in Dubai anymore
Age: 89
Posts: 712
Dude,
all the pilots who can leave, leave. There is an exodus going on, why do you think EK has planes grounded? Do you think your lifestyle will be better than everybody else's? If you dont come from a 3rd world country dont do it.
Anyway can't wait to read your posts here in a few years how bad EK is and that it was your worst decision ever.
GoreTex is offline  
Old 12th May 2018, 22:23
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Originally Posted by Neektu View Post
Check your PMsg
Thank you for the information. Now I fully understand the associated expenses and take home pay. Much better picture. Now i need to ask myself if I want to sell my soul for that kind of money. That's a conversation between my body and brain at the bar tonight.
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Old 13th May 2018, 03:14
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
Posts: 67
Hi Dude,

As has been said before, the problem is with the hidden taxes/fees and there are just so so many of those here. Like you, I did research and a complete budget before I came here but you can never estimate everything. Examples are the VAT, it is only 5% yes but many places added much more than that. There are fees on every government transaction. Internet is very expensive, then they block skype + vpn and charge 100 aed/mo to use it again. Starting to form a picture? The gap is closing very quickly here it is worrying, and if I were you I would be VERY VERY careful about coming here because EK only gave 3% pay rise despite all the price rises in last 12 months and they made over 4bn AED profit. It is a huge red flag!!!!!! Money is ok yes but only if you sit at home and don't do anything. Start going out in Dubai and having brunches and whatever else people do here, it disappears REALLY FAST!!!!

PM me if you want specific numbers for rents, bills etc I can help you but I won't post them publicly
dustyflightdeck is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 03:51
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
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be VERY VERY careful about coming here because EK only gave 3% pay rise despite all the price rises in last 12 months and they made over 4bn AED profit.
Not sure which department you work for dustyflightdeck, but I certainly didn't get a 3% pay rise this year.

As an EK 777 captain, when I fly 900 hours again this year, my pay rise works out at 281.25 dhs per month.
Visual Procedures is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 03:57
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
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Originally Posted by Visual Procedures View Post
Not sure which department you work for dustyflightdeck, but I certainly didn't get a 3% pay rise this year.

As an EK 777 captain, when I fly 900 hours again this year, my pay rise works out at 281.25 dhs per month.
True, more like 3% pay cut!
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Old 13th May 2018, 05:20
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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As a single person considering they work you into the ground with all these tiring flights where do you get the time between sleep work & commute to spend your tax free money?
Wannabe Flyer is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 07:22
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
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From what I hear from friends and ex colleagues in the ME3 Qatar is probably a better option for you. Have you looked at the numbers there?

CP
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Old 13th May 2018, 08:52
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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I'd come for an interview and check it out. Canada is great but a financial drain.
Qatar is the last place I'd go due to the dictator, lifestyle and constraints. Dubai is still the place to be in the ME.
You're right about being single and collecting the allowance bonus. Current rents are well below the allowance if you're single. You'll def make double what your making now with the canadian tax grab.
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Old 13th May 2018, 10:15
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 10
Crewdude,

Your numbers are about right. 2 flaws. You have not taken into account the provident fund. No clue how much an junior FO takes but my guess is you save another CAD$1200 a month on top of it. The other flaw is that I think you under estimate the cost of food ( at home or outside) in Dubai. Its quite expensive, think New York/Londen.

Yes there are some hidden fees here and there, but we are talking dirhams here. Always found it a bit embarrassing hearing guys bitching about there once a year CAD$60 liquor permit while clearing CAD$25.000 a month.

Your CAD$500 for Ubers and taxis is enough. I would recommend a car, you will not regret during the summer!! You pick em up dirt cheap over here. Insurance and petrol compared to back home is cheap. For your cheap leisure take the EPC membership. Dirt cheap , access to the best gyms, beachclubs, tennis, squash, pools, golf in DXB.

The key is to stay single!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I came with a family in tow, but that was 13 years ago. Would not recommend that anymore.
Stay 7 years, bond gone, provident fund in the pocket, take the savings and start again back home in a junior position but with a nice pension fund in the back pocket, and a Nice expat experience.

Forget about Qatar. Its a shit hole. It will only work for young single Europeans who do a bit of commuting to europe. To big of a distance for you.
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Old 13th May 2018, 17:14
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by crewdude View Post
Thank you for the information. Now I fully understand the associated expenses and take home pay. Much better picture. Now i need to ask myself if I want to sell my soul for that kind of money. That's a conversation between my body and brain at the bar tonight.
This is right. The money is good for a single person. But nowadays working unsustainably hard.

This means you suddenly have to start saving every penny to be able to leave, then you find yourself having those discussions with yourself as to wtf youíre doing.

Long haul is different to short haul. At 75hrs a month this is a great job I recommend. At 95hrs itís a nightmare we want to stop. You are either accumulating or recovering fatigue; constantly on the wrong side of that line is nasty.

When I started I scoffed at only 2 days off between trips - now itís the norm.

The problem is, the only way out is to hire many hundreds of pilots. It wonít get better until we attract those numbers. Itís hard to advertise the job on a promise that hours will drop.
Xulu is offline  
Old 13th May 2018, 20:52
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Leaving emotion out, I agree that you should come for interview and check things out. Let a few people know when you are here and I am sure a few would meet you and chat over a beer or two.

Putting emotion back in, you definitely need to read some of the other EK posts. I was always a "rah rah" EK and Dubai guy. Not so much for some time now.

60k per year in savings? Tough. Very tough. I know of an FO who lives in EK accommodation with a wife and 3 kids and he manages to save $3300 us per month.
pilotguy1222 is offline  
Old 14th May 2018, 05:57
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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As a singe guy also consider, you may not always want to stay that way. Dating in Dubai is a gonger. The size of your wallet matters much more than the size of anything else...Chances are high if you actually do meet a normal partner, they wonít be from your home country. flight attendants hailing from third world countries have the expectation there will be some form of family support to the sub continent or SE Asia. Hopefully you can see where all of this is going. Stay single and have an exit plan from the moment you step off the plane. As mentioned before what is your sanity worth to you?
Bindair Dundat is offline  
Old 14th May 2018, 08:02
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Sandpit
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
Leaving emotion out, I agree that you should come for interview and check things out. Let a few people know when you are here and I am sure a few would meet you and chat over a beer or two.

Putting emotion back in, you definitely need to read some of the other EK posts. I was always a "rah rah" EK and Dubai guy. Not so much for some time now.

60k per year in savings? Tough. Very tough. I know of an FO who lives in EK accommodation with a wife and 3 kids and he manages to save $3300 us per month.
$3300 us saving a month on a FO salary?
Hard to believe unless wife is working, very senior FO plus overtime and no extra curriculum kids activities (swim, soccer, music) and ... dinner always at home with rice ....
Camelonglide is offline  
Old 14th May 2018, 10:29
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Between East and West
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A bit of the offtopic, but would FZ be a better sanity-wise option? As far as I am aware of, money for FOs are almost the same, quicker upgrades, no jetlag and people do not seem complayning as much in the FZ thread. If someone can shed light upon the matter, it would be appreciated.
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:31
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Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat View Post
As a singe guy also consider, you may not always want to stay that way. Dating in Dubai is a gonger. The size of your wallet matters much more than the size of anything else...Chances are high if you actually do meet a normal partner, they wonít be from your home country. flight attendants hailing from third world countries have the expectation there will be some form of family support to the sub continent or SE Asia. Hopefully you can see where all of this is going. Stay single and have an exit plan from the moment you step off the plane. As mentioned before what is your sanity worth to you?
Very true. Thats why I stay single.
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:44
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Moon
Posts: 62
Why not consider getting a biz jet job overseas? You can make 2-3 times your current salary as a biz jet captain in Asia without working nearly as hard or being treated as badly as EK. As an experienced Challenger captain it should be a relatively easy prospect to find a job.
burnable gomi is offline  

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