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only bad eggs left?

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

only bad eggs left?

Old 3rd Dec 2017, 12:48
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: uganda
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only bad eggs left?

So management is now trying to figure out how to punish the remaining crew haha. Is that because 20% of our primary English speakers have left or because leadership/attitude are the principle reason we are having near crashes on a weekly basis?!

How many consultants does it take to say the culture is now pure poison!

There is no training only checking. There is no respect only discipline. There is no days off only slavery. There is no recuperation only efficiency. No pay rise in 4 yrs. The bidding system is useless. The swapping system is useless. No more allowance in Geneva, watch this space. Hotels literally next to the gate. Middle management running for the exits. Lets bond everyone. What genius wants to boost his bonus next?!

Another hull loss and this company is history ...
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 13:04
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short flights long nights
 
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Do tell..what have they done now?
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 13:27
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dubai, UAE
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Toxic atmosphere is what you breathe nowadays. Is becoming unsustainable. A safety issue in itself.

And incidents every week - they’re gonna run out of people to dismiss.
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 15:15
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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ehh as this is the ME forum... Who are we talking about? EK?
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 15:35
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27k
 
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Originally Posted by Global_Global View Post
ehh as this is the ME forum... Who are we talking about? EK?
Doesn't sound like.
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 18:04
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
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No more allowance in Geneva? There was nothing in the fleet update saying otherwise unless I missed it. Care to elaborate Bob or is it another one of your usual posts, charged with emotion and lacking in facts?

Also, as for the 'done to death' mantra of EK checking, not training....it's both. Whether we like it or not, our licences are required to be re validated through a competency assessment in the simulator. It's not unique to EK and is repeated in every reputable airline Worldwide. If you failed to notice this throughout your flying career, perhaps you're in the wrong job altogether.

Maybe time to go drive trains like SOPS.

Harry
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 18:32
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Also, as for the 'done to death' mantra of EK checking, not training....it's both. Whether we like it or not, our licences are required to be re validated through a competency assessment in the simulator. It's not unique to EK and is repeated in every reputable airline Worldwide.
Would this be the same “training” department that seems to have no problem with LTCs teaching, or should I say imparting complete horse manure to new joiners because the LTC themselves are so lacking in knowledge and common sense they don’t know any better.
e.g.1 convective wx around but as no “cabin ready” the hero LTC berates said new joiner for having the temerity (common sense) to switch on the wx radar scan the departure path.
e.g 2 berating new joiner for including in the route the expected STAR and approach because “it’s not SOP and could lead to us flying the wrong approach in 14hrs time”
All witnessed by yours truely in the last 4 weeks, the very same training dept that insists on high standards with shared goals and mutual respect.
Is this the same department?
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 19:13
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Originally Posted by harry the cod View Post
No more allowance in Geneva? There was nothing in the fleet update saying otherwise unless I missed it. Care to elaborate Bob or is it another one of your usual posts, charged with emotion and lacking in facts?

Harry
It's apparently a trial where meal vouchers are being issued in lieu of the cash allowance. Not been to GVA to witness it myself but the rumour has seemed to have gained considerable momentum recently.

I heard ZRH as well? Any 380 colleagues care to comment?
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Old 3rd Dec 2017, 20:09
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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MM

Previous posts clearly portray your dislike for the training department so your comments will be taken with the bias they deserve.

There will always be some 'bed eggs' in any training department and yes, I agree that the current minimum requirements to join is laughable. However, what disappoints me most is when individuals such as yourself constantly degrade and generalise a department that, in my opinion, has improved in recent years. The vast majority of the trainers are extremely capable, knowledgable and do indeed engender a climate of trust. Your comments do a disservice to the majority of generally good guys who are currently working flat out and doing a fine job under increasingly difficult and testing times. Perhaps if you reported these anomalies via an email to the person sharing your same initials might the rogue trainers be identified, flagged and possibly removed.

Maybe taking more ownership than umbrage might be the way forward sometimes?

Harry
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 00:56
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Ofc glad you know best Harry. Appreciate your myopic view on the problem facing us all on a grandiise scale! Where is your solution? Ah yes, your best is to belittle the critique as not affecting you!

Please explain why our failure rate has jumped from 1% to 12%? Perhaps it’s because our new hires have neither the experience or aptitude?

Now add chronically fatigued Captains to a minimum level of experience and be surprised where you arrive!!
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 02:17
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By the way , Harry the cod ,
you don't have to be so sarcastic about train drivers , it was once a prestigious profession and we are going the same direction
At least train drivers " stick " together and are not a bunch of pretentious and selfish men as we are...
Maybe I should also join SOPS
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 04:24
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Driving trains are you serious? They work 12 hr shifts and are constantly on strike for one reason or another.
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 04:29
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Maybe if we went on strike every so often we wouldn’t be in the sad shape we’re in as a profession.
We all know the draconian laws and attitudes of the Middle East so striking might not help us but a little back bone will go a long way.
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 05:44
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Originally Posted by harry the cod View Post
MM

Previous posts clearly portray your dislike for the training department so your comments will be taken with the bias they deserve.

There will always be some 'bed eggs' in any training department and yes, I agree that the current minimum requirements to join is laughable. However, what disappoints me most is when individuals such as yourself constantly degrade and generalise a department that, in my opinion, has improved in recent years. The vast majority of the trainers are extremely capable, knowledgable and do indeed engender a climate of trust. Your comments do a disservice to the majority of generally good guys who are currently working flat out and doing a fine job under increasingly difficult and testing times. Perhaps if you reported these anomalies via an email to the person sharing your same initials might the rogue trainers be identified, flagged and possibly removed.

Maybe taking more ownership than umbrage might be the way forward sometimes?

Harry

Harry i like to agree in one point - some of the trainers are nice and competent - but thats it than


in which school is a 2 a reason to repeat the entire class
in which training (except in downunder) would you not trained to success
in which training do support pilots call in sick, because of fear factor
in which training does a support loos his/her reputation and got downgraded (in 15 years i have heard that once with my airline, and they did not burn an aircraft on the runway.
which company has one target only - to destroy confidence instead of building it
which company has such a high intrest in taking away pilots skill
which other company solely number driven, without any Human resource
which company grounds failed upgraders for years, not for one, for years to get it back. usually u not get it back after the second fail, why because normal companies believe in their employees and everyone can have a bad day - not in EK
which company changes the contract without your consent.


these things are very unique to EK or the middle east


In EK u make one little mistake and depending on who u meet it can end your career. further u will be bonded so you have not even the chance to leave after the big embaressment, and if u do so the take away your entire savings from your provident fund. that is what u call a improvment. If somebody is complaining about Ryan Air - please think twice, at least they do not rob your money and call u a unthankful person (yeah ok one guy does)
it was mentioned earlier ex 330 have been here for long - getting overtaken by DEFOs - and now getting bonded and shafted to stay where they are.
Plus - EK gets only those who did not get another job somewhere else - which is ok as long u provide training, but that does not happen either. they get checked with limited input - some of them to death - not even close to trained to success. you can see it frequently in the compounds that somebody moves in and shortly later moves out again. likely to be broke, likely with a loan for the car left, with a loan to make it nice for the family to live here in the long run and mostly because they believed in the promised training to success - until it was suddenly over.
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 05:50
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Originally Posted by Emma Royds View Post
It's apparently a trial where meal vouchers are being issued in lieu of the cash allowance. Not been to GVA to witness it myself but the rumour has seemed to have gained considerable momentum recently.

I heard ZRH as well? Any 380 colleagues care to comment?
They tried this one on in Qantas then backed away when the crew excepted a 10% cut to all their meal allowances worldwide. Miserable pricks!!!!
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 06:01
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Harry, over the years I have agreed with many of your posts and the balance you try to seek, however I truly think you need to go and grab a couple of our redundant Oceanic charts as you have totally lost the plot
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 07:04
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short flights long nights
 
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I would like but back in here. The longest shift we can be rostered for as a train driver is 8 hours. Today and tomorrow I'm rostered for 6.30.

And as much as you might think it's funny, Harry, it is actually a really nice job.
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 09:18
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hot place
Posts: 57
I do believe there are still a few bad eggs but luckily for me (and luckily is perhaps the key word?) my experiences in training have all been positive bar one and that ahole has a reputation. I still passed but he’s not fit for his role! I personally think the fear factor comes from fleet up to the top rather than Training and the increased failure rates and incidents come from several factors such as lowered experience levels, fatigue and a decimated morale. The situation at EK is endemic to the region as a whole. The culture of micromanaging megalomaniacs is everywhere and they do themselves zero favours by not communicating enough to us or between themselves which only fuels frustration and resentment. Everything is either top secret or undocumented and made up on the spot to suit whatever the current need. Ek have made a better run of it than Gulf air but this place needs a radical change and starting with the ‘leadership’ of TC and engaging the work force. If they want to get back to winning awards and market share then they need to change because without that this place is done. In the mean time, don’t hold your breath... just my two cents.
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 13:04
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by MileHi View Post
- Some guys having been hand flying the plane for years (as per OM-A). Others have been engaging the AP at 100’ and disconnecting at minima. Who is to blame for lack of skill?
Following the flight directors with the autothrottle engaged up to X thousand and down from X thousand isn't really 'hand flying' ...in my eyes anyway.
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Old 4th Dec 2017, 13:27
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHi View Post
- Some guys having been hand flying the plane for years (as per OM-A). Others have been engaging the AP at 100’ and disconnecting at minima. Who is to blame for lack of skill?
Following the flight directors with the autothrottle engaged up to X thousand and down from X thousand isn't really 'hand flying' ...in my eyes anyway.
And, therein lies the rub Felix, the culture is so deeply ingrained that something as simple as hand flying is lost amongst layers of OMA revisions and knee jerk FCIs.
As I’ve said previously, the department that should be leading the way has been far more concerned with compliance and arse covering rather than protecting and enhancing the skills of its “customers”
Yes there are good trainers, but they along with their far too inexperienced and far too confident in their own ability colleagues are as much part of the problem as the 3rd and 8th floor are, they just don’t yet see it or believe it themselves...yet.
Human beings learn from their mistakes, until such time as the training environment is tolerant in a humanistic and pragmatic fashion I will continue to view their efforts through jaundiced and cynical eyes, regrettably it seems our training head has forgotten so many of the lessons he learnt from his previous days in her majesty’s service.
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