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Bahrain, Egypt, UAE & Saudi Arabia cut diplomatic ties with Qatar. Qatar aircraft ban

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Bahrain, Egypt, UAE & Saudi Arabia cut diplomatic ties with Qatar. Qatar aircraft ban

Old 5th Jun 2017, 17:53
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Originally Posted by IBE8720
FYI
QR don't overfly Iraq, so any flight in Iraq airspace is landing in Iraq. Same with Syria, Syrian airspace is Prohibited for our Ops.
With that sort of info, you must be a CNN reporter.
Really? Explain QR8261 then. Currently (18:47 UK time) just passing NE of Baghdad en route to Liege. That is Liege in Belgium, not Liege Iraq!
Meanwhile, keep an eye on QR246, rapidly approaching the Turkish/Syrian border, just behind QR40. So, not only does that cover Syrian overflights, the projected tracks of both these flights will take them from Syria over Iraq.
So, your info is perhaps defective? Perhaps when you say "Prohibited for our Ops" you really meant to say "for someone's ops".
So, a tip from an old man; wind your neck in and make sure you know something about the subject before you come up with the amateur insults!
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 18:10
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KelvinD

Without wishing to urinate on your fireworks,

You might want to put QR8261 into a very well known flight tracking website, and maybe while you are it it put in VDA7900
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 18:12
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KelvinD

Really.
Explained like this... QR8261 went northbound through the Tehran FIR not the Baghdad FIR.
Likewise QR40 is following the standard route southwards through Tehran FIR with QR246 following behind.

And yes operations through the Baghdad FIR are prohibited by the GCAA and Qatari CAA - with the exception of flights landing in Iraq.

So a tip from a knowledgeable man, check your facts first!
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 18:12
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Uh, total nonsense from what I can see. Gotta raise the BS flag on this one.

Something tells me that you've never flown an aircraft in the Middle East.

QR 8621 and QR 40 are following the route that goes over Turkey and Iran. There are no QR planes flying over Syria.

Originally Posted by KelvinD
So, a tip from an old man; wind your neck in and make sure you know something about the subject before you come up with the amateur insults!
Lad, you can BS the fans here on PPRuNe but you can't BS the players.
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 18:40
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Yemen airspace has been Prohibited to Qatar Airways for over 2 years. Hectopascals has made 2 posts and both completely wrong.
But irrelevant anyway as we can't get through UAE or Saudi airspace to get there.
And there goes QR1427, enroute to Addis more or less half way between Riyadh and Mecca. Plus 4 more to the north. Stop it! It may be true tomorrow but it certainly doesn't seem that way today.
And as for the poster who claims Qatar's food is imported via Saudi Arabia; heve you ever actually been there? Doha is q good sized, busy port. Full of ships. While Mesaaieed port, to the south of Doha, has a dozen or so ships alongside. Same goes for the post re gas imports to the UK from Qatar. If the UAE wanted to bar these ships from their waters, it wouldn't matter to Qatar as they are currently pals with Iran so they would sail on their side of the Gulf.
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 18:53
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KelvinD

The NOTAM which prohibits the overflights is active from 0000UTC tonight. Hence the overflights you see on FR24 at the moment. Check back after that time and then let us know.

I note no reply to your earlier assertions!
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 19:27
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Strange NOTAMs from Egypt,SA,UAE and Bharein. Not a word about emergency a/c exempt (medevac, in-flt etc).

Last edited by vmandr; 5th Jun 2017 at 19:44.
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 21:07
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Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker has left the IATA meeting in Cancun to put out some fires back in the office according to this ATW article:

Qatar Airways CEO departs IATA AGM as Gulf row escalates

Jun 5, 2017 Alan Dron

Emirates Airline, Etihad Airways, Saudia, Gulf Air, flydubai and Air Arabia were among the airlines that ceased flights to Qatar, effective June 5, after Middle East states surrounding Qatar severed diplomatic links with the country and closed neighboring airspace. Doha-based Qatar Airways suspended flights to Saudi Arabia.

Early Monday, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Egypt announced they were breaking diplomatic relations with Qatar and instructed their nationals to leave the emirate within 14 days.

The announcement coincided with Monday’s opening of the IATA AGM in Cancun, where the world’s airline CEOs and senior executives are gathered. Qatar Airways CEO Akbar al Baker was among those attending the event and he was seen at the AGM’s opening reception Sunday evening chatting with fellow guests and seemingly not aware of the imminent crisis. On Monday morning, he left Cancun on a private business jet, several other airline executives attending the AGM told ATW. “This new scenario also means that Qatar Airways will have to do a lot of detour flights because it will be not allowed to fly over those countries like Saudi Arabia,” one executive said.

Asked about the situation during an AGM press conference, IATA director general and CEO Alexandre de Juniac responded, “We are not in favor of bans and we would like to see connectivity restored as soon as possible.”

The diplomatic row has been simmering for some years over Qatar’s alleged funding for and support of several Islamic groups, notably Islamic State and the widely outlawed Moslem Brotherhood; the latter favors the overthrow of several hereditary rulers.

The final straw came when a news report appeared on the official Qatari news agency website two weeks ago, apparently from Qatar’s emir, criticizing Saudi Arabia and taking a more supportive line toward Iran, Saudi Arabia’s main rival in the region. Qatar said the website had been hacked.
Qatar Airways said in a brief statement on its website that it had “suspended all flights to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia” until the early hours of June 6. A spokeswoman said she had no further information on how operations might be affected.

Qatar Airways, a oneworld global alliance member, operates to multiple destinations in Saudi Arabia, as well as to other Gulf capitals.

The closure of Saudi, Bahraini and UAE airspace poses potentially serious problems for Qatar Airways. Qatar is a small peninsula jutting out from the eastern seaboard of the Arabian Peninsula. Saudi Arabia lies to the west; the UAE lies to the south and east. That limits the inbound and outbound tracks of Qatar Airways flights to the north and northeast, out over the Gulf and, potentially, over Iran.

ATW understands from sources in the region that the situation is made more complicated by the fact that Bahrain manages the upper airspace over Qatar. Qatar still has ATC control over its own lower airspace. How this will affect operations of the country’s national carrier is unclear.

Like many of the Gulf states, Qatar relies on a large expatriate workforce. There are, for example, an estimated 180,000 Egyptian nationals in the country who will now have to depart.
Qatar Airways CEO departs IATA AGM as Gulf row escalates | Government Affairs content from ATWOnline
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 03:47
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I expect all this kerfuffle to be sorted soon as the GCC , and the rest of Sunni Islam including most importantly Egypt cannot afford to let Qatar drift out of their collective orbit and sphere of influence and into Iran`s. There is too much geopolitical $$$ at stake , and therefore the Emir Sheikh Tamim will no doubt eat a bit of humble pie and ice cream , ( that is , only behind a face saving curtain , as it is Ramadan ) , they`ll all bump noses and all will be happy again soon. Saudi just flexing it`s muscles and seeing who is aboard , kind of a trial run in advance of the final eventual showdown with Persia in the coming months. At least I sure hope this is the case , because the alternative will have global implications economically , security wise and we can`t forget about the football ! ( well , actually yes we can.) The Emir will not want to be remembered as the guy who lost his country. Better to eat pie than none at all.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 05:37
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It's more complicated than that. Sheik Tamim is a comparatively young ruler in a society where age matters. There have been a string of quiet articles In the Western press ever since he came to the throne about how difficult it is for him to wield control over all aspects of the government and the wealthier families in the society (which is where the money for ISIL is actually coming from).

This development is potentially just the thing that the Sheik needs to finally exert power over these people. Or it could all go hideously wrong for all Qataris.

Likewise the leaks that have stimulated this reaction are a convenient public justification for UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc. I suspect they've been itching to do this for a long time, and now they can.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 07:34
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1st freedom traffic rights (overflight) are part of Air Services Agreements just like 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5ths. Many countries are party to a multilateral agreement on 1st and 2nd freedoms, but not all are. I don't know if any of the parties here are, but I doubt it.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 08:28
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Will be interesting to see what will become of the hired help/aircrew working for Qatar airways and the Amiri flight. These people aren't known for keeping people on if they are unable to work, for whatever reason.

Will they be rescued by ship?
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 08:30
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A ransom payment of up to $1 billion to Iranian and Al Qaeda-linked forces in Syria may have been the tipping point for Qatari-Gulf Arab relations....Qatar paid out the hefty ransom to secure the release of 26 members of a falconry party, some of whom were members of Qatar's royal family who had been hunting in southern Iraq, "commanders of militant groups and government officials in the region" told Financial Times.
Report: Qatar may have paid $1 billion for release of royal family members - Business Insider Deutschland
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 11:11
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well, QTR seems to be managing so far, their inbounds streaming in from the east by routing over southern Iran until a 90 degree turn south due north of DOH. Outbounds getting away too. Must be with full co-op from Bahrain ATCC who really don't have much choice, safety has to take priority over politics.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 13:00
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portmanteau, are there any delays on QR flights or there is no time penalty due to the route?
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 13:15
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Qatar row: Saudi revokes Qatar Airways' licence - BBC News with the suspension of their licences and closing of the offices it looks like more than a playground spat. "restoring" privileges could take a while. Ankara ATC are under pressure to handle the increase volume of traffic through Turkey, this means more delays and uncertainty as departure slots will be an inevitable consequence.
" Direct Alram" may be a thing of the past!
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 14:01
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Just having a look at FR24 as it's raining and blowing a gale in Blighty, so no gardening to be done today.

QTR773 DOH-GRU, ops by B77W normally non stop, has just made a 2 hour tech stop in ATH before departing to the west.

Flight Aware is good to see where aircraft in the fleet actually are

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/fleet/QTR
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:00
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The Qataris will surrender quickly this time. They can't survive isolation in the region. Not from UAE, Egypt, and Saudi. But this may be a precursor for some serious instability in the region. Tribes there don't get along that easily. (Or most other places to be fair).Watch this space.

Instability will ultimately lead to a lot of expat job losses in the big airlines. No sympathy there. Hired hands is all the foreigners ever were.

As for the World Cup, well it never belonged there. And the bribes have already been paid, so it could end up where it rightfully belongs. (South America or Europe)
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:48
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Somebody said that QR never fly over Iraq to non-Iraqi destinations, QR400 (DOH-AMM) has just passed over Najaf, Iraq and appears to be following the Iraqi/Saudi border.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 16:06
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On time

R I S, here's a snapshot, QR 42 paris/doha sta 1635 eta 1623 touchdown was 1623, give him 5 mins to stand and ata would be 1628.

QR 138 barcelona/doha sta 1635 eta 1628 touchdown 1628, 5 mins to stand so ata would be 1633.
Doha 2 hours ahead of uk.

QR 5 Doha/london std 1630 was airborne shortly after so was probably on time.

I think that services ( except those(cancelled) to/from the 6 states breaking off diplomatic relations) will be able to operate on schedule to and from Europe and beyond and to/from the east. Services to/from west and south of Qatar will naturally be affected by the longer time taken to avoid Saudi.

All above dependent on Bahrain continuing to handle all flights as they normally do between Doha and the Iranian ATC boundary down the middle of the Gulf. Could change. Got to hand it to QTR Flight ops, number crunching and re-routing what-ifs must be going on 24/7. Ditto Bahrain Atcc.
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