No more accommodation allowance EK
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Originally Posted by donpis...
There are bigger problems here than this one.
But with your 2200+ posts, I think you consider it gives you special privileges compared to other posters, like flight hours or stripes or diplomas or war missions ....
Anyway, thank you for your company-minded post.
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Donpizmeov, The email isn't clear, is it. '...except for those who have purchased a property.' Does that mean for those who have purchased a property as of now, or at a point in the next 6 months? The email is poorly written. It doesn't even clarify the situation for people currently out but renting, although it's safe to say, I think, they are not affected. If they were the consequences would be severe.
skytops, The email was only sent to those affected. No-one I know that is already renting has received the email. This would be consistent with the other times this has happened. If you have a concern, ring/email accommodation and ask for clarification. If emailing CC a lot of the higher up muppets to ensure you get a response.
Kobus, the only people who are hard done by with this are those that are now thinking of leaving company accommodation to rent. It means they need to delay their plans by 6 months. Realistically, what percentage of the pilot group do you think this would be? Now, how many of the pilot group are stuck with crap rosters, and having trouble getting leave when they want?
Google translate doesn't help me with the rest of your post so cant help you with those issues I am afraid.
Kobus, the only people who are hard done by with this are those that are now thinking of leaving company accommodation to rent. It means they need to delay their plans by 6 months. Realistically, what percentage of the pilot group do you think this would be? Now, how many of the pilot group are stuck with crap rosters, and having trouble getting leave when they want?
Google translate doesn't help me with the rest of your post so cant help you with those issues I am afraid.
Last edited by donpizmeov; 5th Jan 2017 at 06:07.
That's right Panther. You are affected, you cant opt to rent for 6 moths. If you had opted out already, or been approved to already opt out you would not have received the email.
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funny
What I find rather amusing is that you believe what's written in that email....
you seriously think that after six months they will give again the option to get out of company accommodation, and with the same rules as before?
ha ha ha.
If we get lucky, very lucky, by July we receive another email explaining that due to the current challenging business conditions opting out won't be an option for the foreseeable future.
If we are not that lucky, no email, same results.
For those who say this is not that big issue:
If you buy a house the company pays for it, if you are a FO with three years in EK that means pretty much a pay rise of about 50-60%.
I believe your families of origin must be very very rich.
so, by now I already saw the company offering about 11-13% more for new joining pilots with my same experience, and now I see that the same company is paying some of my batch mates who decided to buy a house only three months ago about 50-60% more.
to you this is not a big problem.
What exactly will you see as a big problem?
When they will actively cut your paycheck?
don't worry, it's coming next....
due to challenging business conditions
you seriously think that after six months they will give again the option to get out of company accommodation, and with the same rules as before?
ha ha ha.
If we get lucky, very lucky, by July we receive another email explaining that due to the current challenging business conditions opting out won't be an option for the foreseeable future.
If we are not that lucky, no email, same results.
For those who say this is not that big issue:
If you buy a house the company pays for it, if you are a FO with three years in EK that means pretty much a pay rise of about 50-60%.
I believe your families of origin must be very very rich.
so, by now I already saw the company offering about 11-13% more for new joining pilots with my same experience, and now I see that the same company is paying some of my batch mates who decided to buy a house only three months ago about 50-60% more.
to you this is not a big problem.
What exactly will you see as a big problem?
When they will actively cut your paycheck?
don't worry, it's coming next....
due to challenging business conditions
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Kippa, your maths is way out. People think that the company housing is "free". It isn't, you are paying whatever the move out allowance is- you just never see that money being deducted from your salary. Hence, if you move out and are no longer taking up space in the company accommodation you get the cash instead.
I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding that.
Also, if you decide to buy a house you too can still have (for now!) the "50% pay increase". So what is stopping you?
I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding that.
Also, if you decide to buy a house you too can still have (for now!) the "50% pay increase". So what is stopping you?
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Originally Posted by dontpis...
Google translate doesn't help me with the rest of your post
2250 posts on pprune... so impressive. I'm sure in your brain, it's like war missions for others - and that's also convincing you that your are a sort of pprune authority on EK subjects.
So once again, the suppression of an allowance for some of your colleagues is a minor issue for you, simply because YOU are not concerned.
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Sorry Kobus. I think you will find many of us respect Don for his knowledge on EK. His take on things as accurate and he is entitled to his opinion. All the best for 2017
Kobus, the only person affected is the one who was about to opt out and rent. Those that have opted out already have no change. Those that want to opt out and buy have no change. So how many colleagues are going to have to wait 6 months to opt out to rent? This has already been happening for the past year if you were in the wrong company accommodation. Is it really such a big change?
Yes I have 2250 posts. That is over a 16 year period. Your 50 posts over 5 months works out to about the same hit rate per month. But yours are somehow different right?
Fellas are flying max hours on min days off, over and over again. Fellas are unable to get leave when they want it, and are having leave forced on them during periods when it is of no use to them. Leave months are still having max hours targeted at them. Capts have been sent to fly in the RHS for a min of 18 months (what a terrible precedent!) . These issues would seem to be a bigger worry, and be happening to greater number of your colleagues.
Yes I have 2250 posts. That is over a 16 year period. Your 50 posts over 5 months works out to about the same hit rate per month. But yours are somehow different right?
Fellas are flying max hours on min days off, over and over again. Fellas are unable to get leave when they want it, and are having leave forced on them during periods when it is of no use to them. Leave months are still having max hours targeted at them. Capts have been sent to fly in the RHS for a min of 18 months (what a terrible precedent!) . These issues would seem to be a bigger worry, and be happening to greater number of your colleagues.
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Whilst I agree with your synopsis of the situation, Don, the solutions for all of the 'bigger problems' you, so rightly, identify are only going to be achieved by substantially increasing (high quality candidates) recruitment and decreasing attrition rates. I would suggest that the current changes to accommodation allowance exacerbates all those biggger issues by acting as a further headwind to recruitment and causing yet more pilots already here to consider their options. Result? Even more hours, even less requested leave being approved and even more unwanted forced leave (in useless 5 day blocks and still with >100 hours in the month) for you and me.
The email is (deliberately so, I am sure) ambiguous regarding continued allowance. It does state that those who have already purchased will get the allowance but what about anyone who wishes to purchase in future?
Similarly, anyone considering joining EK now, knows for sure that the opt out allowance to rent is definitely not available (nominally for 6 months but with all departments charged with making draconian cost cuts - I heard 30% from someone at the meeting - this is the thin end of the wedge) and opt out allowance for a future purchase or rental is now, at best, a very grey area and a huge financial and/or qol gamble for anyone considering applying to Emirates now.
Anyone joining EK tomorrow is going to be stuck wherever EK puts them for the foreseeable future/indefinitely and I can't see that not affecting recruitment and attrition.
The email is (deliberately so, I am sure) ambiguous regarding continued allowance. It does state that those who have already purchased will get the allowance but what about anyone who wishes to purchase in future?
Similarly, anyone considering joining EK now, knows for sure that the opt out allowance to rent is definitely not available (nominally for 6 months but with all departments charged with making draconian cost cuts - I heard 30% from someone at the meeting - this is the thin end of the wedge) and opt out allowance for a future purchase or rental is now, at best, a very grey area and a huge financial and/or qol gamble for anyone considering applying to Emirates now.
Anyone joining EK tomorrow is going to be stuck wherever EK puts them for the foreseeable future/indefinitely and I can't see that not affecting recruitment and attrition.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 5th Jan 2017 at 16:34.
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Not too much to worry about
Whilst I'm absolutely not happy about how things are going, this particular issue is basically a non-issue.
First of all, exactly the same has happened some years back: a freeze on allowance for new renters. Nobody who bought has been affected then or will now in my opinion.
Also, then and hopefully also now, the freeze was finished after only a few months due to lack of company accommodation.
In my opinion, this is a temporary freeze to 'take inventory' of our accommodation department and get things organised again.
We all want changes, but think about it. When faced with a problem in flight, the first thing you should usually do is to 'sit on your hands', take some time to assess. Is it so hard to imagine that this is exactly what is happening now? Just stop all unnecessary moves etc., assess the accommodation situation and come up with a workable solution that might put an end to accommodation trouble for once and for all.
What would you say if you moved out to rent because you don't like where you live, and suddenly they allow accommodation moves within the company?? Then you would have something to complain about again.
As the Don said: we have way bigger fish to fry!! Relax and don't start shouting at every email you get.
MR8
First of all, exactly the same has happened some years back: a freeze on allowance for new renters. Nobody who bought has been affected then or will now in my opinion.
Also, then and hopefully also now, the freeze was finished after only a few months due to lack of company accommodation.
In my opinion, this is a temporary freeze to 'take inventory' of our accommodation department and get things organised again.
We all want changes, but think about it. When faced with a problem in flight, the first thing you should usually do is to 'sit on your hands', take some time to assess. Is it so hard to imagine that this is exactly what is happening now? Just stop all unnecessary moves etc., assess the accommodation situation and come up with a workable solution that might put an end to accommodation trouble for once and for all.
What would you say if you moved out to rent because you don't like where you live, and suddenly they allow accommodation moves within the company?? Then you would have something to complain about again.
As the Don said: we have way bigger fish to fry!! Relax and don't start shouting at every email you get.
MR8
Last edited by MR8; 5th Jan 2017 at 14:09.
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Thanks MR8, nicely written - and thank you really for calling your colleagues "spoiled little girls" Thank you really for your miserable patronizing arrogance.
At which floor is your office ?
At which floor is your office ?
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Post adjusted, but my point remains the same.
MR8
Bananas,
I see your point. But its really a chicken and egg type of thing. The bond was increased and lengthened, but still they came. Compass test is now at own cost, and you need to get yourself to a testing centre, but still they come. These jets are really big and shiny it seems. I am not sure being only offered company accommodation will stop too many.
As MR8 correctly said. It's happened before. It will happen again.
I see your point. But its really a chicken and egg type of thing. The bond was increased and lengthened, but still they came. Compass test is now at own cost, and you need to get yourself to a testing centre, but still they come. These jets are really big and shiny it seems. I am not sure being only offered company accommodation will stop too many.
As MR8 correctly said. It's happened before. It will happen again.
Last edited by donpizmeov; 5th Jan 2017 at 15:21. Reason: because
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Bananas,
I see your point. But its really a chicken and egg type of thing. The bond was increased and lengthened, but still they came. Compass test is now at own cost, and you need to get yourself to a testing centre, but still they come. These jets are really big and shiny it seems. I am not sure being only offered company accommodation will stop too many.
As MR8 correctly said. It's happened before. It will happen again.
I see your point. But its really a chicken and egg type of thing. The bond was increased and lengthened, but still they came. Compass test is now at own cost, and you need to get yourself to a testing centre, but still they come. These jets are really big and shiny it seems. I am not sure being only offered company accommodation will stop too many.
As MR8 correctly said. It's happened before. It will happen again.
Removing accommodation allowance is not, by itself, a silver bullet that will deter recruitment 100% but it is another lash in the 'death by 1000 lashes' currently being served up.
Provided the company finds new lows to descend to, standards wise, in its recruitment drives it will always get the numbers through the door (checked to line is a different matter completely) but where is this going to stop - ppl and an r/t licence as the basic requirements to apply?
And, seeing this unfold, how much more of a 'push factor' is this going to be for the, already greatly reduced numbers of experienced Captains still here? We are seeing less and less experienced new joiners being trained by greatly overworked and increasingly inexperienced new trainers, experienced trainers are leaving the training department, Captains with extensive training backgrounds in wide body jet from previous airline employment are refusing to apply for training positions - and all this against a backdrop of savage budget cuts for all departments - including Training.
We are headed towards another smoking hole in the ground as the company pursues a 'profit at all costs' approach and I don't want to be around when it happens.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 5th Jan 2017 at 16:42.
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The allowance has been pulled in the past but not at a time of such drastic cost cutting. I can see this becoming a normalisation of deviation. First they say six months, then they extend it for another 6 months, then they hope everybody will forget it ever existed.
I really hope I'm wrong.
I really hope I'm wrong.