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B777 Emergency DXB

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B777 Emergency DXB

Old 11th Aug 2016, 04:49
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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The one thing I fail to read in the past 10 pages or so, is that these guys were exhausted from the 12 hour plus duty or so in the middle of the night and the grueling rostering practices. For those on the B777, how many times have you not thought turning finals, hope all goes well here because both at the controls r only half awake.
It will be interesting to see what kind of spin ek will invent this time to avoid fixing the issue of inhumane rostering.
If they choose not to fix, surely we will have another "incident" sooner then later.
[/QUOTE]

5star....
The guys were coming from a 29hrs layover in TRV..
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 05:17
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: USA
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Hope for mitigation

Still time to go for the official report from the regulator, so anyone's guess what happened to EK521
But if it's a late manual GO around thrust application, the crew will b hard to escape blame coz management expects pilots to ensure adequate thrust to b selected at all critical phases of each flight. Delayed actions of pilots will b culpable.
As long s there r pilots who want to join EK, do not expect management to change its course on pilot fatigue or other grouses of current pilots.

Amongst others, A/T disconnects automatically
when either reverse thrust lever is raised to reverse idle
if the thrust levers are overridden during a manual landing, after the autothrottle has begun to retard the thrust levers to idle
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 05:40
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
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My Salami, correct. I'm sure the company is breathing a huge sigh of relief that it changed one of the worst night turns on the roster to a layover just before this event. 29 hour layover before a flight back from India? Easy life, as I'm sure will be pointed out in the report.

What the report might not be so keen to mention is the rosters of the crew in the previous [I]months[I]. If fatigue was a factor (and we all know it couldn't possibly be because the rosters are all legal. Right?) it isn't the day or even the week before that is the issue. The investigators (who also wrote the FTL..) should look at the 100 hour months, minimum days off, shared rest days and so on that have been normal for months now.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 05:46
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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BG Keep in mind that target number 1 is to protect the brand, not the crew...
ExDubai is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2016, 06:29
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Not at EK :)
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Two stories from Dubai Media this morning which so aptly show the utter hypocrisy of the place.

3 years in jail for online rumor mongers: UAE Interior Ministry - Emirates 24|7

Experts point to wind shear in Emirates incident

Only the government can spread rumours and spin. No one else.

ExDubai is right. Protect the brand at all costs. I also saw this. Just when EK need some positive spin:

'World's luckiest man': Dubai resident wins $1m after surviving Emirates crash - Emirates 24|7

"Abdul Khadar became a dollar millionaire after he returned back to Dubai just few days before the Millennium Millionaire draw took place in Concourse A, Dubai International Airport."

Pleased for Abdul Khadar but can't help wondering if there is something here.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 06:42
  #166 (permalink)  
FL3
 
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Emirates airline has offered a $7,000 compensation to passengers who survived the EK521 fire accident while landing in Dubai last week.

How to spend $2M...
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 09:39
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Having recently gone-around in DXB from our own accord:

Within 2 seconds of TOGA, controller spots it and calls: "I see you're going-around, climb to 4000 and contact 124.9".

This at the exact time we are doing our initial actions, incredibly inappropriate timing. What on earth was the need to make this call so immediately?

It got me thinking about the 521 guys; I hope that the tower heard on the recordings issuing instructions to them during the attempted go-around didn't contribute to the 'incident'.

You can imagine it drawing an already startled PM's attention away from his job during an unexpected baulked landing.

Perhaps the controllers are not aware of the potential for distraction. They can already see we've got 4000 pre-selected... just as 521 would have.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 11:18
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Within 2 seconds of TOGA, controller spots it and calls: "I see you're going-around, climb to 4000 and contact 124.9"
Simple solution: ignore them.
anson harris is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2016, 11:45
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Austria
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In freedom:

Iam still waiting for my Najm. Congrats to you a job well done.

The costa muppets were more then lucky this time but even their luck is not endless,

just wait and see for the next incident sorry accident around the corner.

Hope the Muppets get a Najm as well for destroying lifes and safety!
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 12:25
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Originally Posted by Sciolistes View Post
Did they ever conclusively unambiguously nail down the power plant problem with BA38? Or was it still a 'most likely scenario' conclusion?
Fuel Cooled Oil Coolers (FCOCs)
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 12:32
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Do it in CDG and they'll hound, and hound and hound until you tell them why you went. Really annoying, but I suppose they need to know for the next guy.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 14:13
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by HeartyMeatballs View Post
Do it in CDG and they'll hound, and hound and hound until you tell them why you went. Really annoying, but I suppose they need to know for the next guy.
"standby, I call you back". it works well, even in CDG...
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 14:41
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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WIZ.
Yes you are quite correct Wiz, in my world the TRE still does the LOFT and also the following CHECK unlike in UAE where a different guy does these items by regulation.It is what it is.
The EK 777 accident has a very close similarity to the Orient Thai MD83 crash in 2009 at Phuket.On their third attempt at landing in quite harsh weather, the copilot called (as PF) GO AROUND at below 100 feet aal then released the controls to the Captain who correctly called for the go around flaps and gear up, but even though he pushed TOGA on the autothrottles and raised the nose to the go-around attitude they were so close
to the ground that the thrust retarded to IDLE as it would normally and the airplane just ran out of speed and mushed into the ground then weather cocked to the embankment to the north where they died.Sad.Peter
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 14:54
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Really? I've always had the examination and training done by the same TRE in EK.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 15:21
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Los,

It's changed many times at EK. Use to be day one was training and day two was the testing. And that changed between TRI doing day one and TRE day two, to TRE doing both. This ended when EBT started as they found some couldn't pass the test bit unless they were trained immediately before it. So they were slipping through the system until command time without ever being identified as needing extra training.
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Old 11th Aug 2016, 16:17
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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I've always had the examination and training done by the same TRE in EK.
Recurrent is not the only evaluation event. Initial Skills test, Initial LOE, LVO etc. etc.

In any case, as you say, for Reval it's examination FIRST, training AFTERWARDS- so I fail to see what point you are trying to make.
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Old 12th Aug 2016, 10:47
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
Recurrent is not the only evaluation event. Initial Skills test, Initial LOE, LVO etc. etc.

In any case, as you say, for Reval it's examination FIRST, training AFTERWARDS- so I fail to see what point you are trying to make.
Point? I was not making any point, just responding to this from post #177:
"Yes you are quite correct Wiz, in my world the TRE still does the LOFT and also the following CHECK unlike in UAE where a different guy does these items by regulation.It is what it is."
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Old 12th Aug 2016, 10:54
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
Los,

It's changed many times at EK. Use to be day one was training and day two was the testing. And that changed between TRI doing day one and TRE day two, to TRE doing both. This ended when EBT started as they found some couldn't pass the test bit unless they were trained immediately before it. So they were slipping through the system until command time without ever being identified as needing extra training.
Thanks for explaining. I think the way it's done now makes perfect sense. Every day (or night) we go to work we are tested, nobody trains us immediately before the flight. On one LOE I got a 2 in one of the PAMs. We discussed afterwards in a positive environment, redid the day after, got a 4, and I learnt something in the process. No drama...
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Old 12th Aug 2016, 14:58
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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lospilotos

and for the 2 you got a warning straight after you passed your LOE?
That happend unfortunately to a lot of guys.
MM knows about it and tolerates this crazy stuff done by the costa muppets.

Here is a small summary of incidents/accidents

https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/emirates

The wheels are off

Last edited by Talparc; 12th Aug 2016 at 15:23.
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Old 12th Aug 2016, 15:37
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Originally Posted by Talparc
Here is a small summary of incidents/accidents

https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/airline/emirates

The wheels are off
To be honest, apart from accident, a lot of the stuff in the list happens to other airlines too! Happily the guys and girls in the front do the right thing - as we are trained (or checked) to do!!!

For so many daily flights and miles flown it's not an unusual list.
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