Boeing Mulls Stretching 777 to Knock Out Airbus A380
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.... the 380 is extremely profitable, all operators are extremely satisfied, they put 380ies on all possible routes, can't wait for the outstanding deliveries and other airlines are breaking down doors at Airbus to place new orders
MH have got rid of their 777s haven't they notapilot? Why only tell half the story?
Oops, one glofish dummy out of the cot.
Oops, one glofish dummy out of the cot.
I think the reasons for that have little to do with desirability of the A380......
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Glofish answered your concern. It is one thing to retire after serving full useful life, and sitting on the auction block less than 5 years from delivery.
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@msbbarratt
I very much advise you go over such numbers before you make a fool out of yourself
@comical don
I guess looking at the age of the model in question and the years used, this argument is a little silly ……
@172
on wiki: "One study of 8 flights in Airbus A380 aircraft found a median cabin pressure altitude of 6,128 feet (1,868 m), and 65 flights in Boeing 747-400 aircraft found a median cabin pressure altitude of 5,159 feet (1,572 m)."[11]
…. And the T7 is comparable to a 744 …… so be careful with such statements
although agree on the noise.
If the capacity reduction was unavoidable (i.e. no extra airport slots), a 777X would have to be about 33% more efficient than an A380 to generate the same profit per flight as an A380
@comical don
Malaysia Airlines retired the last 777-200ER and ends the 777 operation after 19 years in service.
@172
The points in favor of the 380 are the reduced noise level and the reduced cabin altitude.
…. And the T7 is comparable to a 744 …… so be careful with such statements
although agree on the noise.
The 380 flies a mile higher. In the smooth air right, with lower indicated airspeed hence quieter. Stop being so defensive. The 777 is a great aeroplane. But a 380 replacement it ain't.
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Why on earth anyone is bringing Malaysian into the discussion is beyond comprehension. Even prior to 2014, the airline was a basket case, totally inefficient, over capacitized and a total throwback to the days of national willy waving through the medium of the national airline. Their new CEO, an Irishman from Kerry, may be able to put the house in order, but breath holding is not advised.
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@ glofish
Indeed. From Flightglobal:
That formula has changed slightly with Boeing’s announcement at the Farnborough air show that the 777X cabin will “replicate” the maximum, 6,000ft pressure altitude of the 787 cabin, a significant cabin improvement from the 8,000ft maximum pressure altitude of the 777.
Full article here: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...n-777x-401712/
so be careful with such statements
That formula has changed slightly with Boeing’s announcement at the Farnborough air show that the 777X cabin will “replicate” the maximum, 6,000ft pressure altitude of the 787 cabin, a significant cabin improvement from the 8,000ft maximum pressure altitude of the 777.
Full article here: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...n-777x-401712/
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Guys, i give you that. The ride (and the bar) are great on the 380.
I just shiver if i read numbers like 33% for a 77X to improve to beat a 380! In aviation even 1% improvement is an engineers nightmare to achieve, so please stay out of dreamland!
As for the cabin. Sure enough the 380 beats the T7. But simply take the average FL of a 380 ULR flight (rough guess 380) and the one of a T7 (some 340) and the 4000ft difference pretty much eats up the psi difference.
Look, the 380 is great, as was the Concorde or for that matter the deLorean. But in the tough business environment only profits count and the sold units tell a story!
As it seems, now even rumoured cancelations from the biggest operator are threatening.
I just shiver if i read numbers like 33% for a 77X to improve to beat a 380! In aviation even 1% improvement is an engineers nightmare to achieve, so please stay out of dreamland!
As for the cabin. Sure enough the 380 beats the T7. But simply take the average FL of a 380 ULR flight (rough guess 380) and the one of a T7 (some 340) and the 4000ft difference pretty much eats up the psi difference.
Look, the 380 is great, as was the Concorde or for that matter the deLorean. But in the tough business environment only profits count and the sold units tell a story!
As it seems, now even rumoured cancelations from the biggest operator are threatening.
glofish,
I very much advise you go over such numbers before you make a fool out of yourself
Fair enough. The point I was tying to make is that what matters most to a business is overall profit. Shareholders don't like profits to shrink, and things like profit/seat means nothing to them. If an airline is making an amount of profit by flying an A380 on a slot constrained route, then replacing it with a different aircraft type has to raise the same (or more) profit per flight otherwise the shareholders get grumpy.
And because of the disparity in seat counts, getting a fully loaded 777X (406 seats?) from A to B has to make you about 33% more profit per seat than flying a fully loaded A380 (544 seats?) over the same route. I simply can't see the 777x achieving that. One can easily see why Emirates, who have some slot constraint problems and fly A380s at quite high load factors on those routes, are keen on the A380, a stretch, and especially a neo.
If the capacity reduction was unavoidable (i.e. no extra airport slots), a 777X would have to be about 33% more efficient than an A380 to generate the same profit per flight as an A380
And because of the disparity in seat counts, getting a fully loaded 777X (406 seats?) from A to B has to make you about 33% more profit per seat than flying a fully loaded A380 (544 seats?) over the same route. I simply can't see the 777x achieving that. One can easily see why Emirates, who have some slot constraint problems and fly A380s at quite high load factors on those routes, are keen on the A380, a stretch, and especially a neo.
MSB,
EK is stuck with the 380, and is in trouble if that line ever stops. Only 25% of the PAX carried stay in DXB. When they carry large 380 loads into DXB, they have large 380 loads to carry onwards. Having a hub half way between Europe and Asia makes this work for them. This is why they can use this aircraft to places like MRU, MAN and BHX.
Airlines without such a hub will never be able to consistently fill enough seats to be able to operate large fleets of 380s. In fact order books for anything with more than 300 seats are hurting.
So in reality there is only one airline where the high extra yield would be required to ensure no profit decline. For the rest replacing small fleets really wont make much difference.
EK is stuck with the 380, and is in trouble if that line ever stops. Only 25% of the PAX carried stay in DXB. When they carry large 380 loads into DXB, they have large 380 loads to carry onwards. Having a hub half way between Europe and Asia makes this work for them. This is why they can use this aircraft to places like MRU, MAN and BHX.
Airlines without such a hub will never be able to consistently fill enough seats to be able to operate large fleets of 380s. In fact order books for anything with more than 300 seats are hurting.
So in reality there is only one airline where the high extra yield would be required to ensure no profit decline. For the rest replacing small fleets really wont make much difference.
No fair glad rag. The 737/747 was state of art in the 70s. 
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When they carry large 380 loads into DXB, they have large 380 loads to carry onwards. Having a hub half way between Europe and Asia makes this work for them.
...
Airlines without such a hub will never be able to consistently fill enough seats to be able to operate large fleets of 380s. In fact order books for anything with more than 300 seats are hurting.
...
Airlines without such a hub will never be able to consistently fill enough seats to be able to operate large fleets of 380s. In fact order books for anything with more than 300 seats are hurting.
Big assumption is EK A380 loads are always good, which is not true. EY doing much better with fewer seats than EK at DFW. Even a third world carrier like Air India doing better on DEL-SFO with a low density B77L.
It is very easy for competitors to offer a non-stop between Asia and Europe with a smaller WB like B788 or A332. In future even A321NEOLR non-stops will eat into hub feed. There is absolutely no difference for budget Y pax between A380 and A321NEOLR and there is very little premium traffic and even 1-2 rows of 2-2 flatbed will be sufficient.
I see your problem notapilot. You are using made up data. DFW is on a payload restricted but full 777. Try booking a ticket from DXB to SFO this week. Full as a full thing. Loads in the high 90% on the way home. All for much more money and better comfort than your favourite palace in the sky.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Come on nolimit. The company made a bit over $2 billion last year. How much did EY and Air India make? And loads were seasonal then as well right?
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What others have and EK lacks is capacity discipline.
Notapilot,
Non capacity disciplined company makes huge profit. Your palace in sky...not much.
In other threads you complain that EK has no consistent product between fleets. And now you endorse it. Seems you are never happy.
Non capacity disciplined company makes huge profit. Your palace in sky...not much.
In other threads you complain that EK has no consistent product between fleets. And now you endorse it. Seems you are never happy.