EK: How many resigned today?
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Yeah, and we have to fly with them.
The questionable recruitment, minimal training and then throwing them at us fatigued skippers, is nothing less but worrying.
Now before you tar and feather me:
Nothing wrong with them as colleagues and pilots, each and everyone of us would appear as inexperienced with the same background. In another company with less destinations, new and dangerous, with rosters that are human and not against every medical and scientific finding, with management that would deserve such a name, it can actually work.
But here at EK, at this very moment, we are adding a hole to the Swiss cheese, where there are far too many already.
As simple as that. And now comes the one million dollar question:
Where can we raise that issue?
Fleet?
VPOps?
GCAA?
EASA/FAA?
VC?
The questionable recruitment, minimal training and then throwing them at us fatigued skippers, is nothing less but worrying.
Now before you tar and feather me:
Nothing wrong with them as colleagues and pilots, each and everyone of us would appear as inexperienced with the same background. In another company with less destinations, new and dangerous, with rosters that are human and not against every medical and scientific finding, with management that would deserve such a name, it can actually work.
But here at EK, at this very moment, we are adding a hole to the Swiss cheese, where there are far too many already.
As simple as that. And now comes the one million dollar question:
Where can we raise that issue?
Fleet?
VPOps?
GCAA?
EASA/FAA?
VC?
Join Date: Jan 2001
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You are either competent to be a captain and deal with the inexperience of a fully qualified but new FO or you are not.
This is the same for every airline, except many airlines have old shabby aircraft and poor training departments.
EK has neither, and has no more tricky destinations than BA or any other legacy airline who all cope with cadets.
If you are not competent to do the job of handling junior FOs then resign but just stop whining about it as if it is somehow something special to have to actually mentor some junior guys occasionally.
You were spoiled for years, now you are not. Get over it.
This is the same for every airline, except many airlines have old shabby aircraft and poor training departments.
EK has neither, and has no more tricky destinations than BA or any other legacy airline who all cope with cadets.
If you are not competent to do the job of handling junior FOs then resign but just stop whining about it as if it is somehow something special to have to actually mentor some junior guys occasionally.
You were spoiled for years, now you are not. Get over it.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Couldn't agree more Tourist!
I'd rather fly with a new young TP FO that has the enthusiasm to learn and build his/her career and not talk about things related to resigning. As I have caught myself saying a lot more recently, not all of us have resigned or are planning to resign this summer
I'd rather fly with a new young TP FO that has the enthusiasm to learn and build his/her career and not talk about things related to resigning. As I have caught myself saying a lot more recently, not all of us have resigned or are planning to resign this summer
Join Date: Mar 2002
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You are all naive in thinking an enthusiastic inexperienced co-pilot will be able to back you up when you make an "uncharacteristic" mistake because you are on your third night turnaround in a row on a 100+ hour month flying into a CB laced airport at night with poor ATC. You look to your right and your FO is miles behind the airplane because he hasn't seen a light show in the sky like this in his life!
Fatbus and tourist are probably on the long haul fleet and are not qualified to pass judgments on pilots who do combination night turns, ULR and over 100 hours for the last three years (is this the same as BA and legacy carriers? really?) Yes we are qualified to handle FO's fresh from the cadet program, but not in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion.
B777-200LR, I am happy for you that you can still see the positive points of flying (I truly am). I am not against new blood. I am against new blood replacing the experienced guys who are leaving. Soon, people like you will be the minority and then what?
Fatbus and tourist are probably on the long haul fleet and are not qualified to pass judgments on pilots who do combination night turns, ULR and over 100 hours for the last three years (is this the same as BA and legacy carriers? really?) Yes we are qualified to handle FO's fresh from the cadet program, but not in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion.
B777-200LR, I am happy for you that you can still see the positive points of flying (I truly am). I am not against new blood. I am against new blood replacing the experienced guys who are leaving. Soon, people like you will be the minority and then what?
We have been taking 2000hr guys for years. In fact these guys are getting commands by now, have probably done the required 6 months left seat and most probably TREs on the Boeing.
I can't see 3000hr turbo prop fellas being less experienced than a 2000hr Barbiejet pilot.
I can't see 3000hr turbo prop fellas being less experienced than a 2000hr Barbiejet pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Fatbus and tourist are probably on the long haul fleet and are not qualified to pass judgments on pilots who do combination night turns, ULR and over 100 hours for the last three years (is this the same as BA and legacy carriers? really?) Yes we are qualified to handle FO's fresh from the cadet program, but not in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion.
Yes I am qualified to pass judgement on pilots who fly "in the current state of mental and physical exhaustion"
It is your duty to declare yourself unfit to fly if you are too fatigued to cope with a qualified but inexperienced FO. Don't whine about it on Pprune, do something!
This situation is in no way the fault of the FO or his inexperience and entirely the fault of Captains being unwilling to stand up for themselves.
It is your duty to refuse to fly if you are too tired.
End of.
If you are not willing to stand up to airline bullying with the potential to lose your job then you have no business sitting in a pilots seat.
Resign.
There are lots of jobs out there at the moment.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Tourist
You don't work for EK because it's Sh1ty ..... Then how do you know it's Sh1ty??
You don't work for EK but you are busy reading posts about EK ..... Why?? If it Sh1ty why are you bothered??
You don't work for EK because it's Sh1ty ..... Then how do you know it's Sh1ty??
You don't work for EK but you are busy reading posts about EK ..... Why?? If it Sh1ty why are you bothered??
Join Date: Jan 2001
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It's called research.
Bet you wish you did some eh?
I'm bothering to post because some on here are trying to suggest that having young inexperienced FOs is in some way a new aspect of sh1tty for EK.
It is not.
Having young inexperienced FOs is normal for any decent airline.
Getting young inexperienced FOs have merely exposed the fact that some EK captains are uncomfortable flying without experienced FOs and feel this is a safety issue.
Whether due to incompetence or fatigue, this is a very serious issue. If I were in that position I would refuse to fly.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Research
[QUOTE=Tourist;9300536]I know it is sh1tty because I can read on here that it is ****ty.
It's called research.
Research done in a rumour mill... Ha!
It's called research.
Research done in a rumour mill... Ha!
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Yes Tourist , we get it .You know all about everything ! It's just a freaking joke and I am sure it's appreciated by many who don't have something stuck up their a$$ . Tired of pontificating the virtues of pilotless aircraft ?
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/57259...rrectness.html
Folks , he never stops , please don't encourage him , somehow he will get the topic around to this .
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/57259...rrectness.html
Folks , he never stops , please don't encourage him , somehow he will get the topic around to this .
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Do you find Ad Hominem attacks helpful when you cannot argue the point Stone?
This has nothing to do with unmanned aircraft that I can see?
It's a pilot forum.
I like many others have interests in various aspects of aviation. Don't get excited because I disagree with you on one or two. Life would be dull if we all agreed.
This has nothing to do with unmanned aircraft that I can see?
It's a pilot forum.
I like many others have interests in various aspects of aviation. Don't get excited because I disagree with you on one or two. Life would be dull if we all agreed.
Little jet. We have been taking 2000hr dudes for 5 to 6 years already.