Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

How much further does this manning crisis go with EK?

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

How much further does this manning crisis go with EK?

Old 16th Jan 2016, 08:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How much further does this manning crisis go with EK?

1. Resignations now averaging more than one a day. Very large numbers of experienced pilots leaving. ("retiring" if above 50 apparently, so they're not counted in the official stats)
2. Pilots flying 98-105 hour rosters; fatigue a clear and present danger.
3. Managers flying up to 90 hour rosters due pilot shortage...hardly anybody in the office and seriously reduced management oversight of the entire operation.
4. CRMI trainers told they won't be doing courses for a while as they're needed on the line.
5. Numerous people called off their manual handling sims to operational duties due shortage of crews.; reduced training
6. Discussions continue about trying to postpone all manual handling sims due shortage of crew (wonder how they're going to present that to STC, as that is his little baby); reduced training
7. Some pretty average performers moving to the left seat. Sorry to say, I'm not seeing a lot to give me confidence with some guys I've observed.
8. Reduced experience in the right seat.
9. New GSFIs with no airline or big jet time, teaching new FOs with limited airline time and no jet time; reduced quality of training?
10. Freighter operation with constant and serious mistakes in loading. Every week another ASR about serious load errors; high risk operation.
11. Engineers, cabin crew, and pretty much every part of this operation stretched to, if not already past breaking point; fatigue, high risk of mistakes
12. And finally, statistics....heavily weighed against EK now.

Anybody recognise this picture?

Kamelchaser is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 10:13
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: europe
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was invited in january for stage one assessment but hearing the voices on that matter I am not so convinced anymore that this continues to be an aiming point down the runway.
level_change is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 11:47
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Habibi Habibi, let me tell you, there is no crisis.
falconeasydriver is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 14:14
  #4 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,915
Received 202 Likes on 69 Posts
If only they looked after the people they used to have, and tried to look after the people they still have, however the word 'compassion " and the the thougt that you employ human beings, not robots, seems to have escaped those in charge over the last few years.
SOPS is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 14:57
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Congratulations to AAR!

He managed to put enough weight on the seesaw to have it pivot to the bad side for good and a very long time.

It will take even more weight to put it back, so many examples of other airlines are around. Remedial action cost them multiple times what their unnecessary cutbacks on the backs of their personnel seemed to promise. Excessive greed always had the same outcome and history repeats itself. Arrogant idiots never die out and this non-culture in the pit seems to breed them at a very high rate.

No need to hope for any improvement. It might come, and has to come, but for us in the dump right now it will take too long to make any impact on an individual base.

The ones who can should leave, their health will say thanks.

The ones who plan the exit should continue, too distant the improvement.

The ones who are stuck should manage their rosters to a sustainable level, or suffer the consequences, but they are now warned. Look at the long term sick! I have never seen such a high percentage of colleagues that are seriously ill (3 that i know with cancer!!!)
glofish is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 15:13
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Seems like the MGT have unleashed an anarchy where they don't care of the working conditions, they look as pilots as drivers and are least interested in their health and well being. All thats important is their airplanes regardless of how tired, competent or safe it is.
A320CaptDav is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2016, 13:33
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In the Cockpit
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DON'T SCRATCH THE PAINT.. you are just hired help which can and will be disposed of if needed.
Spoogie is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2016, 15:16
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Neverland
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If ya still think they care...

As the meta-analysis from 2006 suggests, airlines should monitor radiation dose and educate crews of the risks involved. Airlines operating in the European Union are required to keep their crew’s annual effective dose under 6 mSv, airlines in Japan try to keep their crew’s exposure under 5 mSv, the Nuclear Radiation Commission require that employees are educated about the health effects of radiation, and health care professionals are recommended to wear dosimeter badges if they are at risk for exposures greater than 5 mSv (Bushberg, 2009).
A European directive on in-flight radiation, which took effect in May 2000, requires airlines to track radiation dosages received by air crew members and to inform them when they breach the level of one millisievert. The dose of in-flight radiation for each transpolar flight between New York and Hong Kong could reach 0.10 millisievert, a standard measure of radiation exposure, even without additional radiation from a solar flare, according to calculations made by Ms. Waters using the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration's CARI-6 computer program.
According to Ms. Water's calculations, a passenger taking no other flights than one round trip on the route every other month could surpass the maximum dosage guideline of one millisievert per year set for the general public by the EU and the Radiological Protection agency.
Calculating separately and independently, Mr. McAulay and Mr. Barish affirmed that radiation from five round-trip flights could surpass the threshold of one millisievert.

They know this and yet........

Last edited by 120feet; 17th Jan 2016 at 17:26.
120feet is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2016, 18:54
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Anywhere there are cats to chase.
Age: 25
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fly low- fly fast. Screw the airline's bottom line. They could give a rat's ass about you after they spit you out. Take the extra few tonnes and bump up the cost index. Save yourself.
troff is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2016, 19:06
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In Fresh Air
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But they do care. Just think of all of the increased medical testing we are subjected to. All for our health.
Panther 88 is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2016, 19:34
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In Fresh Air
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A little cut and paste from the recruitment site:

Annual Leave
All pilots are entitled to annual leave aggregating 42 calendar days

A little cut and paste from Black's Law Dictionary.


In general, that which is entitled. 1. Old age pension, social security, unemployment stipend stating a distribution or privilege or right to an economic benefit. Typically granted by contract or law. Meeting the required qualification triggers the entitlement. 2. Reference to a precedence or established procedure defends a right or claim. 3. Benefits to members of a particular group in a Government scheme. 4. Offer to the holder of a security, or physical transfer of cash or stock shares as a payment.

Nuff said. Well on our part anyway.
Panther 88 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 04:40
  #12 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Since they haven't done all those things 1201, I have to surmise that there are still enough new joiners wanting to expose themselves to the daily bashings and fatiguing rosters they surely read about here... go figure!!!

I keep hearing everyone say the wheels are falling off... yet the operation still seems to be going "seamless" at least to those on the outside. I first heard this term about wheels falling off 4-5 years ago regards to EK ops but to date... the EK machine keeps going!! Amazing.....

I recall about year ago March-ish we had a washup and the individual mentioned to us, that nothing would change until jets were having to park due no crew.

Well, while I'm no longer there doing 97 hours, I hear from more than a few colleagues still there, that some flights are quietly redistributed due no crew and in the case of PTY "delayed awaiting codeshare approval" type occurrences are more frequent than ever before.

So.... this tells me EK will never change anything as they must save face and never admit they've bit off more than they could chew.
Old 18th Jan 2016, 07:20
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
out of curiosity...did anyone bother showing up to the fleet forum on their day off on the 17th?
Mach_Krit is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 08:13
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tranquility Base
Posts: 84
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Kapitan L, if the original poster is correct, then it could indeed this time be different than the usual moaning on here.

There are clear indications that the employment market has turned. The biggest market (north america) is sucking in pilots in the thousands, the chinese already pay serious dosh, ryanair is offering direct employment, a lot of carriers are traveling the world with roadshows (funnily enough in each others homegarden, e.g. EK in London and BA in DXB) plus oil is getting cheaper and cheaper.
1201alarm is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 08:30
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: north pole
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sick fatigue when needs to be!!
Attendance meetings, warnings, all sorts of threats etc.. DON'T CARE. Make my day 😉
Self preservation mode is the only smart solution.
homoeconomicus is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 08:41
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Anywhere there are cats to chase.
Age: 25
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree: Self preservation mode is the only smart solution.
troff is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 13:34
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Agreed. You're your own one man rostering unit. EK couldn't give a toss about your long term health. Row harder minions.
sluggums is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 15:23
  #18 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Self preservation yes... to a degree.

Too many of those fatigue calls and of course, you'll get called into the office on a precious day off to explain your lack of productivity and probably get the new warning letter because of it. A few of those, and you could be told, "Maybe you're not the type of pilot Emirates wants"!!!

Then what?? Rock and hard place especially for those with kids. More than a handful of guys won't leave even though they have no life at home at all simply because the kids are only in 3rd grade and will want to have them finish up to high school. Emirates has them chained to the rowing oars......

Seems each month gets about 30-60 minutes added to the rosters.

Emirates needs a world recession again with many airlines going out of business, but I don't really think that's going to happen in the next two years. By then, the guys will be flying 110 hours a month.

Curious what will happen when those guys who approach 900 plus the bunk conversion time, whose numbers are increasing monthly.... when will they simply run out of time to fly for the year. I'd think they're good til November but ya never know....

Old 19th Jan 2016, 09:20
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New add out, I haven't seen it before at least, for DEC today. Must be great being in right seat waiting for upgrade...

CaptainProp is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2016, 12:02
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CaptainProp
New add out, I haven't seen it before at least, for DEC today.
Sounds like its going well so far...
bigdaviet is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.