Lowered requirements Emirates

[speedbirdd]

Hi...I applied to EK late last month. All I have received after submitting the application was that,they will get back to me within six weeks. If not then they will not cocider me this time. I have an ICAO ATPL and Level 6 ELP,total 2400 Hrs with with 2100 on ATR and safety and audit experience,which is ongoing.

Is some one able to shed some light.

[Payscale]

So? You applied. They told you to wait. After 6 week they will either call you or not. Took me two year to get their attention 14 years ago. Be patient because without it you won't last in the ME

[ibelieveicanfly]

Well said Payscale.

Because there is lower requirements those new guys with not a large experience believe that it is open doors for everyone,that everything is due to them before they have proved anything!and this is valid nit only here but generally speaking

[QCM]

WB1900...quoting..."Do you really believe that 16hr straight from one continent to another, whilst sleeping half the time gives you judgment experience.
Lets say it that way. What the wide body pilot does is not more than an enhancement from previous skills"

Try an engine failure or a smoke around 80°N during 207mn ETOPS in poor winter conditions and then you'll tell me about so called judgement experience!

Each job has its own threats and difficulties for sure,but don't minimize one to greet the other.

[olster]

The current turbo - prop pilot love - in is aviation's version of political correctness. Suddenly, as though a revelation, there is a whole breed of highly proficient tp pilots just waiting in the wings to be whisked into the front seat of a global 777 operation and all will be expert and brilliant. I have no view on tp pilots good and or bad but I will say that flying a tp from Cardiff to Dublin is not the same as operating a wide body halfway around the world. The amazing handling skills of this neglected group notwithstanding, the operation and management of a long haul wide body are more complex and challenging. As from a previous post we hear that a Q400 climbs at F16 rates but this is manifestly nonsense and all part of the talking up of the tp argument designed to fit the agenda. Of course a tp pilot of average ability can fly a 777 but as we all know it is not as straightforward as advertised; certainly a novel approach to training will be required. Interesting times.

[Deep and fast]

Will all sky gods please state how they developed their god like status when slagging off those they see as beneath them!

Try an engine failure or a smoke around 80°N during 207mn ETOPS in poor winter conditions and then you'll tell me about so called judgement experience!

Well, vital actions followed by qrh would be a start. Weather, well that should have been determined as suitable IAW your ops manuals and updated as such on route. Location, well if you have the ETOPs approval, risk assessment has been carried out by the manufacturer and the approval bodies concerned. Contingency actions in your operating airspace should be briefed for such flights.If you don't like flying so far north then don't join a long haul company.

By the way, I'm not a TP driver, but I have actually flown to northern Siberia in winter as well as extensively in Russia, Europe and Middle East as well as North Atlantic crossing. So can I be deemed suitable or is my aircraft too light to transition to wide bodies.

But the real issue is.......quite frankly they are not paying enough to attract pilots to join, peoples buckets are full and so are leaving and new aircraft are arriving. An unsustainable situation that the managers are gonna have to face up to or risk having their position terminated when the ruling powers go for scalps.
Jeez how many ryanair guys work there and they only had Europe experience and has that brought the airline to its knees?

Focus people, the problem is money, the problem is rostered hours, the problem is leave and the problem is quality of life. Let the company recruit and train, that's their job not yours!

[glofish]

Let the company recruit and train, that's their job not yours!

Very funny, indeed.

But y'know what? WE have to fly what they recruit and train, not the company. Hence the interest and disrespect for what you just stated.

On another note: I do respect your experience, just as much as i do for Ryan Air pilots who do well, so you could be very much suitable for EK, maybe not your attitude though.

Our recurrent syllabus recently provides time for FO enhancement modules, with line orientated scenarios with them running the whole show. Most of them come out of these experiences a little more humble than you seem to be .....

We sky gods may have developed our god like status by experience and training first .... and only then focusing on the problem called money.

[Deep and fast]

But y'know what? WE have to fly what they recruit and train, not the company. Hence the interest and disrespect for what you just stated.

The same in any company mate, I've flown with some high hour utter liabilities! Hours or type doesn't provide any guarantees.

maybe not your attitude though.

What the attitude that understands that if I as a pilot want to set recruitment minimums, that's the tail wagging the dog. If you want to run things your way, start your own airline. A bit like the DEC who brings his old company SOPs with him because he doesn't like the new ones. You have to deal with the realities.

Maybe you have the problem attitude not me. The recruitment world is changing from the past 8 years. It's not a pilot shortage, more a constriction of supply and any company will do what they need to do to keep the schedule running. I remember the days airlines were going to flying clubs and offering to pay for everything to get people in the right seat.

If your in the training dept and don't like the thought of training these guys, resign your training post. If the recruits don't make the grade out on the line then ASR them. If your not captain enough to be the captain, well that's a choice you need to address.

Harsh words maybe, but your a pawn in this game not a King. Take the recruits, swallow the additional workload in the short term and hope for more realistic and tolerable rosters in the long term.

Oh buy the way Glo, what types and which areas did you operate in prior to Emirates? Just asking, I want to be a sky god one day........not!

GloFish® fluorescent fish are born brilliant! oh it seems you had genetic help to be brilliant!

[olster]

Well said Glofish. Reduced requirements for pilot recruitment is a means of opening the pool of potential new-hires and ergo not having to pay more for experienced pilots ( they've dried up anyway). The inevitable sarcastic responses are predictable ('sky gods etc.') but the fact remains that the operational challenges on a global operation are more complex. With maturity some of the contributors to these threads will realise this; having excellent handling skills when landing your dash 8 / ATR etc into Jersey while laudable but are only a small part of the picture. Your anecdote reference complicated, yet realistic LOE / LOS scenarios and subsequently chastened crew members is apposite. As a member of the pc pilot community myself I would never disparage a fellow group of professionals, including the C150 flying instructor but nevertheless one has to be realistic.

[Deep and fast]

Olster, I said

Will all sky gods please state how they developed their god like status when slagging off those they see as beneath them!

I didn't specifically call anyone a skygod but

Glofish said

We sky gods may have developed our god like status by experience and training first .... and only then focusing on the problem called money.

So I guess HE thinks he is.

You said

Reduced requirements for pilot recruitment is a means of opening the pool of potential new-hires and ergo not having to pay more for experienced pilots ( they've dried up anyway

So what is a company supposed to do? Pay more to the existing guys and still be short?

Airlines have always had a training element, Easyjet put 200hrs guys in the seat just as monarch BA etc, I don't like it if there are more qualified applicants although I've not applied myself. The CTC model has taken over in the UK and cadets have always featured in Europe also.

What is important is QOL money and health. The proffesion attitude to flight operations should be a given if you chose this career.

Have I applied, no. There just isn't enough financial incentive yet.

[donpizmeov]

EK hasn't hired experienced guys for ages. There was this same gum gnashing when it dropped to 2000hrs jet, and just as many threads for 2000hr wiz kids swimming in the holding pool wondering when their time would come.

Same same but different?

[glofish]

Deep and fast

You include sarcasm (skygods) in your contribution but have a hard time discerning it in others. Psychiatrists have a term for that.

By the way, you might not know: In most respectable airlines recruitment and training is partly done by active pilots. At EK they are actually fighting the erosion of quality by not letting any self proclaimed "proffesional" pass, and they will have to withstand pressure from the company.
Thus my disdain for your sloppy comment.

Stay where you are, both sides will be better off, because EK will not up the antes to your heights.

[Deep and fast]

Glofish, psychiatrists have many terms. I could say you have egocentrism!

But as always, true dianosis requires evaluation but a clinical professional.

I said

Let the company recruit and train, that's their job not yours!

Which you didn't seem to like much.
And you said

By the way, you might not know: In most respectable airlines recruitment and training is partly done by active pilots. At EK they are actually fighting the erosion of quality by not letting any self proclaimed "proffesional" pass, and they will have to withstand pressure from the company.

So really, what's your problem? Find the guys who are interested and evaluate. As for the evaluators, if you can't take the heat then don't be on the recruitment panel. I have seen nowhere that the actual level of ability is being reduced, only the experience level. Only those able to pass the assessment get in! What the hell do you expect the company to do?
Are the whole BA 777 fleet pilots gonna apply just to help out your crewing issue? No.

So get real, take the best of the available pool of qualified pilots and train the bits that are currently missing from their repertoire.

As for me, maybe I will join, be fun to goad you on a 17 hour Panama

[expat400]

It's easy to find posts every year from 2005 and onwards describing EK:s applicants as "being scraped from the bottom of the barrel" or "third world applicants".

Where are they today?

[Deep and fast]

Sitting much further up the barrel?

[nolimitholdem]

I love it when guys like Deep and fast charge into a topic with zero time in a company to tell all the guys who've been there a decade or more, how it is. And then accuse them of egocentrism. Wow.

Thanks Deep and fast, your contributions are very valuable. Please continue to enlighten us, while we wait for EK to raise the remuneration to a level that will "entice" you. Then, at last, we could gain more gems of knowledge from your obviously experienced self, firsthand.

Until then, we wait anxiously with anticipation.

[Deep and fast]

So the pilots determining recruitment policy in Emirates is the way forward? You guys are funny.

Reality, you need bums on seats. I know enough guys working there who tell me so they can have easier rosters and get leave.

It's not just about enticement for me, you want narrow and wide body jet guys? As for me, I have no interest in BSJs, just cash for retirement. And I'm better off where I am at the moment. But the world of work is a fluid situation.

Oh and the ppruners as always don't always prove to be a representative scientific sample group. Some say Harry the cod has Stockholm syndrome. The probable reality is, it seems to work for him and that's the real trick in this industry. Sorry to drag you into the topic skycod.

[cerbus]

It doesn't matter how many suckers, er New Hires come to Emirates the company will only hire enough pilots to allow for us to fly 92 hrs a month with 30 days leave a year.
The reason we are so short now is because of so many pilots that have left the company. Probably approaching 150 pilots this year so the company will only try to hire 200 or so pilots. 150 to make up for the attrition and 50 or so to fill the expansion.
It is very telling that the company can't even hire 200 pilots this year. Hence the lower requir,nets and standards. If Emirates paid us what other airlines make the company probably wouldn't have any problem filling the ranks.
Does anyone think that is gong to happen here? Me neither.

[Capt. Flamingo]

It seems that they are throwing a wider fish net out there.

A380 NTR FO:

ICAO ATPL

ELP 4

AviationJobs.Me Flight Crew: A380 Non Type Rated First Officers Emirates UAE

Link on above website takes you directly to the emirates careers site.

Reminds me of an Eagle's song...

[misd-agin]

Flamingo - the job posting date says Jan. 2014. If that's correct this is hardly timely news.