Emirates Airlines Joining

[thatwasclose]

Fly by wire,

I have been at emirates for over 5 years and less than 8. I have lived abroad for most my life. Ek has until recently been very good to me over all and I have had a pretty good time in dxb. However lately I have been worked very hard, and with real inflation here high I am saving less and less. I am not a bitter worker saying don't come here in the hopes there is a shortage of pilots so my pay check goes up. I don't recommend this place to experienced pilots anymore. Most my friends feel the same. I have begun looking about leaving, first steps. Moral is low here. Right seat rosters on the 380 and 777 are good still, though getting tighter. The left seat on the 777 is bloody awful. And all the lads on the 330/340 are knackered. Do not presume that only guys that have an axe to grind post negative stuff. I would wager that the silent majority are unhappy.
Good luck in your choices.

[LHR Rain]

You would be hard pressed to find any EK pilot that is happy anymore. As been mentioned many times in many different ways the direction the company has decided to take in the last few years is very troubling as there is absolutely no reason for this southward trend.
If they decide to add DECs to the mix that would be the last straw for a lot of FOs. How much more garbage can they take? Plus what kind of pilot would join Emirates knowing all that the company does and that DECs are coming in front of the new FOs.

[donpizmeov]

Rain,
All FOs in the company now joined knowing EK hires DECs. They just gambled it would not slow them down. Can't see it changing in the future. Those jets are big and shiny remember.

The don

[TransitCheck]

If you look at the history of some of our posts about EK, those who used to be quite positive about the company are now quite negative. That is the trend among the total pilot group. We have a great group of pilots for the most part and it is such a shame that the company has decided to take the low road rather than the high road on cost neutral quality of life issues just because they have control freaks and greedy money hungry pigs as managers/VP's.

If carriers (Asia/Turkey/BKK) start to accept current and experienced wide body F/O's for applicants as DEC's, I believe you will see how unhappy people at EK really are. Currently, every airline is requiring 500 to 1000 hours of wide body command time within the last 6 months to even apply for a DEC position.

[CamelRustler]

DECs

At an interview I was given the reason for the 500 hours pic on type. They said it was a requirement of the insurance. Not sure why but that's what they said. Could also be specifically the insurer for that company. And yes 7 years ago I was happy here. Today I am not happy. The simple question is, (Whether you are happy here or not.) Do you think pay and work hours will suddenly, or even slowly get better? I think most of us can agree they will not. So if you are coming here, understand, that right now when you join it is the best it will ever be.

[bringbackthe80s]

Don' t mean to be sarcastic..but why exactly airlines in Asia/Turkey or BKK should hire First Officers at EK as Direct Entry Captains?

[TransitCheck]

I didn't say they should hire EK first officers.

I said if those carriers ever open up DEC hiring to FO's with widebody time on type......I said nothing about making it EK specific.

[glofish]

FBW, let's look at some of your statements:

Even a move to the RHS if it was with a good company, and wasn't for too long

First, never move to the right, if not fired or out of job. Second, never trust any indication of time to upgrade, especially in the ME.

Emirates also appeals because it's not hugely far from home

Well, that might have been the case a few years back. With the silly new rules like only 5 days off in a row, rostering with many acclimatisation problems (need you to be in DXB two days ahead of flights) and the flights overfilled with cheap tickets they upgrade and almost no possibility to book confirmed flights for staff, the UAE sort of feels the same distance from home as Antarctica.

... and a company ethos that being largely Expat, is supportive of a wide variety of expat pilots

In that respect you will have a univocal "not", even from the rare species of happy EK buggers.

rather than a cultural 'them vs us' that I understand

wrong again. It might not be outright racial, but definitely management vs. employees

People generally are more motivated to post when they don't like something, so the large amount of negative posts and the odd blog I suspect don't tell the whole story.

It might not. There is a very good test for that, not only in aviation: Post some rumour about a company/club/community that is not very flattering but borderline possible and check the reactions. In most cases you will trigger many answers of the suspected "silent happy majority".
My bet is you do that for EK today, there will be the obvious bunch confirming that, but only some well known management muppets as positive voices.
Honestly, i don'y know any normal pilot who is happy at the moment!

I know it sounds strange, and i certainly know that the situation is worse at many other places. But a change of job especially to this region needs a bigger ΔT&C to make it worthwhile and stick, especially with a wife and family.

And as has been said before: The situation remains dynamic and the trend is definitely not good.

[puff m'call]

I've not bothered to read all of this because it's probably gone miles off track.

The long and short of it is, DON'T join EK, it's going down hill so fast.
Most of the other ME operators are improving, this lot are not!!!

They can't get the equipment right, they can't get rosters right and they can't get the leave right.

In a nutshell it's FU@KED!

[donpizmeov]

Puff they are trying to fix the equipment problem. If you live long enough the old john deere will be replaced with the john deere 11. Should work a treat.

Seats might still be trash, but at least the wings will fold.

The don

[glofish]

but at least the wings will fold.

True, and it's even intentional!
On other models it's a rather expensive side effect of desperate weight reduction .......

[cerbus]

The seats are crap on the 777 because like so much else the company does to us it gave us the cheapest option. As you look at the Boeing catalog there are 3 options for the cockpit seats and you can guess from all the back problems pilots have which option Emirates choose for us.
This like so much more is what a new joiner has to look forward to if you elect to join Emirates. They might have Big Shinny Jets but they treat you like absolute trash. Think long and very carefully before joining, your health depends on it!

[donpizmeov]

Is that the -300 or -200 gloie?

The don

[glofish]

Let's see, i'm not familiar with the early production denomination of the fat one. Maybe the 200 was the one stuck under the bridge in France and the 300 the one with the somewhat short wiring ..... The one with the wing crutches is called 800 and even its wings still crack.
I guess the 800 will stay the one and only series, but who knows, maybe they could adopt the JD's idea about folding wings and by that cure their blunder!

Sorry for the drift, but it's fun!

[Mr Good Cat]

As long as there is a nonsensical and irrelevant Boeing vs Airbus spat to distract the proletariat from the real issues in Rome, the Bourgeoisie will continue to thrive.

Anyone for a night out at the colosseum?

[aussiesteve]

Decisions decisions

I'll get to the point before explaining my situation.

The decision I hope I will have to make at some point will be whether I take the first opportunity to move over to EK or stick at my current airline gain my captaincy then move over to EK. (if I did want to leave)
If I did move over as soon as I can I expect a 10+ year wait till command from what I've read in this thread.
If I gained command at present airline I thought (maybe naively) I would possibly get a deal with EK basically saying go to the RHS for a few years (as SFO) and then we'll move you over.
How likely is that? or is it just worth going over straight away if I wanted to make the move.

First, never move to the right, if not fired or out of job.

If EK wont hire DEC would it be wise to consider a move to the RHS for a slight pay cut for a few years until Captaincy?
If they do hire DEC do you think you'd have a chance getting the LHS with only narrow body hours? or will you need some widebody experience?


Background info

I am just about to start my first airline job on the A320 family after finishing flight school last year.
I have always wanted to fly Long Haul to be able to stay in your destinations and having flown EK lots when I was much younger I have always had a soft spot for it.
Having read this thread I understand that I have been very naive as I thought a tax free salary with accommodation etc was a pretty good deal. Maybe it is but maybe not. But I guess I'll be finding out just how it is when I start flying after my type.
Having spoken to a number of crew about EK they have suggested making sure that I visit DXB a good number of times to make sure that I enjoy the place and talk to people who work for them.

Sorry if you think the info is pointless but as I am just starting out I am trying to gather as much info as possible and any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks all!

[SOPS]

If you join as an FO, you will be on the bottom of the list. There is no fast track commands, regardless of your previous experience.

[Wizofoz]

If I gained command at present airline I thought (maybe naively) I would possibly get a deal with EK basically saying go to the RHS for a few years (as SFO) and then we'll move you over.

There won't be any "Deals" done. The criteria are laid down and adhered to.

In the past, there has been a "Fast track" command scheme, where highly experienced FOs were promoted inside the normal three year minimum.

That hasn't happened for several years,is no longer in our manual, and would be unlikely to happen as long as there are sufficient FOs in the company to fill the seats (which will be the case for the foreseeable.)

They have actually taken DECs while still not having the fast-track route open, and that would probably be the case in the future.

If they do hire DEC do you think you'd have a chance getting the LHS with only narrow body hours? or will you need some widebody experience?

It's happened in the past, but that was at a time of rapid growth and limited availability on the world market.

Never say never, but it seems unlikely anytime in the future. While EK is still expanding, on a percentage basis it will never be as rapid as, say, 8 years ago, when it doubled it's fleet in around four years.

It will therefore always have much more capacity to fill the LHS from within, and can therefore be picky when it comes to DECs (if ever.)

If your goal is a LHS with Emirates, the quickest route is to join asap as am FO and wait your turn.

[aussiesteve]

SOPS, Wizofoz.

Thanks for the info. Still got a minimum of 3 years until I get enough experience to think about moving over so will deffo keep an eye on how things progress.

Another question,
Does the tax free salary actually help at all or does it pretty much just compensate for the cost of living?

[kirungi1]

aussiesteve

To reiterate comments by Wizofoz, SOP and others on this and more, I wouldn't make that decision basing on such subjective grounds as Wizofoz has just quoted and it's unlikely that, unless you are a UAE national, you will join as a FO ASAP since you've just made it out of training school and only gained some employment which is a huge achievement; congratulations and well done

My advice is that you take heart, consolidate your achievement thus far and learn the trade. Soon you will have that experience that employers look for.