EK Pay review
Join Date: Aug 1998
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"Where is my pay raise" is a question which misses the point slightly. You have already had your pay rise and worked under the new terms whilst earning your salary for the month of May. It's not that your pay raise is missing - you just don't know what it is yet.
Join Date: Apr 2014
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They already know what the pay review consists of, they couldn't announce a profit target if they don't know overheads and outgoings.
I hope, really hope, there is another genuine reason why they are withholding the news - if it's simply to prevent a further drop in morale during the runway closure then it's an incredibly poor way to behave, and disrespectful to the employees.
From memory, the last time we had a pay rise + step that matched inflation was a few years before the increase in the productivity threshold. So that must be around 5 years of what is essentially pay cuts, whilst the company continues to make record profits.
Does anyone have to hand the actual year we received a tangible pay rise?
I hope, really hope, there is another genuine reason why they are withholding the news - if it's simply to prevent a further drop in morale during the runway closure then it's an incredibly poor way to behave, and disrespectful to the employees.
From memory, the last time we had a pay rise + step that matched inflation was a few years before the increase in the productivity threshold. So that must be around 5 years of what is essentially pay cuts, whilst the company continues to make record profits.
Does anyone have to hand the actual year we received a tangible pay rise?
How can anyone say the standard has not accepted lesser quality pilots?
Have you seen what is coming through?
Have you seen what is coming through?
Forget all the statistics. When you lower the hourly requirements you lower your experience level.
You are incredibly disrespectful to the people you work with- I hope you have the sack to explain to your FO's exactly how inferior you consider them.
It was 2500hrs total and 1000hrs jet when I joined. So the requirement has increased if anything.
The don
The don
Join Date: Sep 2011
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don and wiz
You are closer to the 9th level than the rest of us, i respect that.
So please explain the mentioned ridiculous ASRs, if they do not origin from a drop of quality.
I am not sarcastic!
You are closer to the 9th level than the rest of us, i respect that.
So please explain the mentioned ridiculous ASRs, if they do not origin from a drop of quality.
I am not sarcastic!
So stating what the requirements were when I joined makes me management? Boy, I say boy, you are as sharp as a bowling ball.
So gloie let me get this right, you are anti management, and anti any pilot with a staff number greater than yours. You had better hope that those senior to you don't have the same ideas.
Why is it that the bad pilots always joined after the complainer? Why is it that standards always drop, training became easier, command courses become easier after you have done yours? Are they really out to get you?
Grow up.
The don.
PS. Personally transport jock, I would prefer a busty leggy blonde sitting next to me. Couldn't really care to much on how many hours she had. Her dad owning a brewery would be a bonus.
So gloie let me get this right, you are anti management, and anti any pilot with a staff number greater than yours. You had better hope that those senior to you don't have the same ideas.
Why is it that the bad pilots always joined after the complainer? Why is it that standards always drop, training became easier, command courses become easier after you have done yours? Are they really out to get you?
Grow up.
The don.
PS. Personally transport jock, I would prefer a busty leggy blonde sitting next to me. Couldn't really care to much on how many hours she had. Her dad owning a brewery would be a bonus.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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The "Unmentionable" Airline
I number of local emirati co-workers in my lowly rank are thinking of leaving Emirates to fly for someone else we cannot talk of.
Not only is it quicker to command , they have a PAY-RISE AND PROFIT-SHARE, (even if the profit is manufactured)!!
If I was a local, I'd move too. Wait a minute, I have those same command requirements..
Its all about the $coin$ vs the competition, oooh they have first-class double-bedroom sky-suites now...
Not only is it quicker to command , they have a PAY-RISE AND PROFIT-SHARE, (even if the profit is manufactured)!!
If I was a local, I'd move too. Wait a minute, I have those same command requirements..
Its all about the $coin$ vs the competition, oooh they have first-class double-bedroom sky-suites now...
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Interested in knowing what others think appropriate increases should be...
Otherwise EASA ATPL and CV ready, waiting for autumn 2014 to put in my applications.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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There is a lot of Stockholm Syndrom around here ......
don
No, it has been higher at times before, so they lowered the standard at least once. -> Fact
wiz
From what reference point? Remember 2003 and the Bahrain incident? They upped the antes then, didn't they?
Not wanting to go in a slagging match, but face the reality!
Back in 2003/4 they suddenly had to give the needed DECs an entry to direct 4th year captain scale, because they couldn't find enough who would join for the meagre salary. Why? Because the requirements were quite high. Would you think this could happen today, or has that happened since?
No, because since then, they rarely took in DECs, and for FOs they took whatever was available, adapting the hours/experience accordingly.
As i stated, the quality might even be sufficient! But as i stated as well, we can't bitch about no pay increase if we implicitly support a drop in initial qualifications. Because you can always adapt the influx to what you are prepared to pay!!!!!!
So be careful what you wish for or what you defend!
don
It was 2500hrs total and 1000hrs jet when I joined. So the requirement has increased if anything.
wiz
We are not accepting lesser quality pilots
Not wanting to go in a slagging match, but face the reality!
Back in 2003/4 they suddenly had to give the needed DECs an entry to direct 4th year captain scale, because they couldn't find enough who would join for the meagre salary. Why? Because the requirements were quite high. Would you think this could happen today, or has that happened since?
No, because since then, they rarely took in DECs, and for FOs they took whatever was available, adapting the hours/experience accordingly.
As i stated, the quality might even be sufficient! But as i stated as well, we can't bitch about no pay increase if we implicitly support a drop in initial qualifications. Because you can always adapt the influx to what you are prepared to pay!!!!!!
So be careful what you wish for or what you defend!
Would you rather have someone with 6000 hours in the right seat next to you, or someone who just scrapes 2500 hours who happened to have flown a Boeing or Airbus...
Seriously, option 2.
But the reality is neither- I want someone well trained and sharp who knows what he is doing, and the young guys coming in with time doing bulk sectors around Europe meet that in spades.
As i stated, the quality might even be sufficient! But as i stated as well, we can't bitch about no pay increase if we implicitly support a drop in initial qualifications. Because you can always adapt the influx to what you are prepared to pay!!!!!!
So be careful what you wish for or what you defend!
So be careful what you wish for or what you defend!
Join Date: Sep 2011
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I didn't say I support it- I am just not prepared to lie and say the current recruits aren't good pilots- they are. The current pass-rate and rates of extra training required (little to none) evidence that.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Someone was asking above about pay raise history. This is what I have since keeping notes around 2008:
Pay raise/bonus since May 2008
05/08
12% 14 wks
05/09
None due financial crisis - OT threshold went from 78-92 somewhere around here.
This marked the beginning of significant erosion of T&Cs
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11 (edu fund 32-40/54-60)
8% 12wks
05/12
3% no bonus
05/13 (edu fund 40-42/60-63)
3.5% no bonus
05/14
3wks (pay review deferral letter 22/5/14)
2012-13 prof target 3.5bn dhs (achvd 3.1bn) 10/5/13
13/14 target 4.22bn (1st half 2.2bn) 8/5/14 - 4.1bn achieved
2014/15 target 3.7bn (rwy closure)
I have to agree with posters above, that there is no science to what experience level makes a good FO. Yes experience counts but my arse has been saved by both cadets and 50yr old heavy drivers. Keep it up boys
!
f.
Pay raise/bonus since May 2008
05/08
12% 14 wks
05/09
None due financial crisis - OT threshold went from 78-92 somewhere around here.
This marked the beginning of significant erosion of T&Cs
05/10
6% 3wks
05/11 (edu fund 32-40/54-60)
8% 12wks
05/12
3% no bonus
05/13 (edu fund 40-42/60-63)
3.5% no bonus
05/14
3wks (pay review deferral letter 22/5/14)
2012-13 prof target 3.5bn dhs (achvd 3.1bn) 10/5/13
13/14 target 4.22bn (1st half 2.2bn) 8/5/14 - 4.1bn achieved
2014/15 target 3.7bn (rwy closure)
I have to agree with posters above, that there is no science to what experience level makes a good FO. Yes experience counts but my arse has been saved by both cadets and 50yr old heavy drivers. Keep it up boys
!f.
Join Date: Nov 2011
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This marked the beginning of significant erosion of T&Cs
BS. You obviously weren't here for TCK's Great Cost Neutral Pay Adjustment where credit for annual leave was erased, amongst his other slimy moves. TCK wasn't smart enough to think of most of it himself of course and many of those behind it are still here.
This snapshot is a good example of the window view. The decline has been going for a lot longer than that; it's just the gradient which has varied at times.
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All of those numbers include the planned step increase so actual changes since 2011 is plus 0.5%. I don't view a step for experience that is in my contract as a rise.
If you want to really see how we have done the pay of a starter was as follows:
1992 - 15500 (75 hrs)
2014 - 29000 (85hrs)
So about doubled in 22 years. From 92 to 2000 official inflation was 52%. From 2000 to 2014 73%. The peak was nearly 15% in just 2008 which about matches all the pay rises since 07. (I believe "ex-pat inflation" is much higher)
So 15500 in 92 should be 46192 AED with no erosion! (Adjusted for official inflation and extra hours flown)
Stats at: http://www.adced.ae/uploads/Chartbook.pdf
If you want to really see how we have done the pay of a starter was as follows:
1992 - 15500 (75 hrs)
2014 - 29000 (85hrs)
So about doubled in 22 years. From 92 to 2000 official inflation was 52%. From 2000 to 2014 73%. The peak was nearly 15% in just 2008 which about matches all the pay rises since 07. (I believe "ex-pat inflation" is much higher)
So 15500 in 92 should be 46192 AED with no erosion! (Adjusted for official inflation and extra hours flown)
Stats at: http://www.adced.ae/uploads/Chartbook.pdf
Last edited by ekwhistleblower; 31st May 2014 at 18:50. Reason: Accuracy
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Let's not forget the impact of exchange rates.
It's an individuals choice to expose themselves to that risk, but this is an expat gig and the true value of the package will determine recruitment and retention.
The issue is that bottom feeder pilots are not affected nor care about historical salary data, they eat what's on the table today. The old hands won't extract themselves from their comfort zone until there is something worth chasing. It usually has to be a fatter, more tastier prey in a nicer part of the ocean. Preferably all three.
There are plenty of bottom feeders, the comfort zone is comfortable enough and significant other prey has been all but fished out. TC is a cunning fisherman, he's saving his berley for when it really counts.
It's an individuals choice to expose themselves to that risk, but this is an expat gig and the true value of the package will determine recruitment and retention.
The issue is that bottom feeder pilots are not affected nor care about historical salary data, they eat what's on the table today. The old hands won't extract themselves from their comfort zone until there is something worth chasing. It usually has to be a fatter, more tastier prey in a nicer part of the ocean. Preferably all three.
There are plenty of bottom feeders, the comfort zone is comfortable enough and significant other prey has been all but fished out. TC is a cunning fisherman, he's saving his berley for when it really counts.