EK Pay review
Join Date: Jul 2011
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JAARule,
Bravo for allowing the FO to do that, and not making them your autopilot.
But afterwards did you have a chat about it, or just come here to write about it and bitch about the training dept.......?
Bravo for allowing the FO to do that, and not making them your autopilot.
But afterwards did you have a chat about it, or just come here to write about it and bitch about the training dept.......?
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Our employer has no respect for us and takes every possible opportunity to show it! What do we do?? We descend into another pointless P@@$ing contest about the merits/capabilities of our colleagues(FO's & Capt's), maybe we should start another round of the 380v777 debate!!
We are being continually and deliberately shafted in every way possible and the Management can comfortably giggle at us from Costa because all we can do is fight amongst ourselves..
We are being continually and deliberately shafted in every way possible and the Management can comfortably giggle at us from Costa because all we can do is fight amongst ourselves..
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Bravo for allowing the FO to do that, and not making them your autopilot
In all fairness.... if that FO was to do anything other than that type of conservative flying with 70% of the EK Cpts....they (Cpt) would be sh#ting themselves.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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JAARule
"...but not my job to teach them.."
Interesting statement. Maybe not your job to teach them but ever thought of it as simple feedback? Is that not how we all learned as F/O's, from words of wisdom and advice from more experienced captains. Some advice was good, some was crap and some we thought at the time was crap turned out to be good. We picked and chose what we thought was worthwhile, often based on the merits and ability of the guy dispensing the feedback.
Don't do it for the sake of the Company, do it for helping your fellow colleague. If he doesn't want to take it onboard, that's his problem. He may thank you for it when he's on the command course!
Harry
"...but not my job to teach them.."
Interesting statement. Maybe not your job to teach them but ever thought of it as simple feedback? Is that not how we all learned as F/O's, from words of wisdom and advice from more experienced captains. Some advice was good, some was crap and some we thought at the time was crap turned out to be good. We picked and chose what we thought was worthwhile, often based on the merits and ability of the guy dispensing the feedback.
Don't do it for the sake of the Company, do it for helping your fellow colleague. If he doesn't want to take it onboard, that's his problem. He may thank you for it when he's on the command course!
Harry
Join Date: May 2013
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Honest question...how does performing a CDA benefit the individual pilot? And what incentive does anyone have not to fly conservatively? If you nail it, no one cares. If you ball it up, tea and biscuits.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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have to agree with Moose and TOGA. Who cares if you save fuel. You get a final warning letter if you fudge up and become unstable. Maybe guys would try to be more efficient if there was less fear of termination.
You become stable painfully early, you go home and forget about it, keep your job.
Isn't there another post about guys creating their own CDA approaches only to have ATC to tell them to increase ROD? Following ATC instructions not to hit anything, that is a great idea….
You become stable painfully early, you go home and forget about it, keep your job.
Isn't there another post about guys creating their own CDA approaches only to have ATC to tell them to increase ROD? Following ATC instructions not to hit anything, that is a great idea….
Join Date: Feb 2008
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So, they announced the profit target for next year but they don't know what their employee salaries/benefits will cost them????
They know and I would be very surprised if it was any good at all...
I hope I am wrong...
They know and I would be very surprised if it was any good at all...
I hope I am wrong...
Join Date: Jun 2005
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CDA's and stable approaches are not mutually exclusive! In fact, in my experience I can honestly say that often the pilot who's planning his descent and is being proactive is less likely to balls up on the stabilisation than those sticking with VNAV all the way or open descent. Aircraft should be operated in a safe and efficient manner. level at 2000' 15 miles out is neither of those. You're far more likely to get a false G/S and believe me, people have followed them!
Take some professional pride in the job for f**ks sake!
Harry
Take some professional pride in the job for f**ks sake!
Harry
Join Date: May 2013
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Never implied they were exclusive, but you are more likely to be unstable trying to do a CDA. Professional pride? My profession is to fly people from A to B safely. How the f*ck does flying conservative approaches encroach on that mission? Also, flying conservatively doesn't mean dragging it in from 15 miles. Typical EK sky god bulls#it. If you think that flying CDAs makes you a better pilot, then by all means Chuck, have at it and tell all your friends at the barbie, I'm sure they'll pat your back and laud the efficient operator you are, mate.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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767200 you raise a very good point, how can a target be set, budgets approved and yet they're unsure about our increase!
It actually goes to show how good they are at creative accounting. It certainly has changed over the past 10 years, completely lost its soul!!
It actually goes to show how good they are at creative accounting. It certainly has changed over the past 10 years, completely lost its soul!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Moose
Assuming you're from 'merica, it doesn't surprise me that CDA's are low on your agenda. Not a criticism, just stating fact. CDA's are not a feature of US flying and therefore not really taught or encouraged. In Europe they are and need to be due to highly noise sensitive airports. Airlines get notified and often fined, particularly on departure violations. I don't think many European pilots do it for a pat on the back, it's done because that's the way most of us were trained and it's ingrained in the way we operate the aircraft.
As for your statement about CDA's likely to end up with more unstable approaches, I completely disagree. My previous Company was one of the worst offenders into LGW back in the late 90's with CDA's (after all the American airlines!). An 'education and awareness' program followed and they went from being bottom to 2nd best in 12 months. Interestingly, they found that the number of G/A's due to unstable approaches were reduced by almost half. Why? Because pilots were consciously calculating their profile and managing their energy accordingly. So, if anything, I'd say that correctly flown CDA's actually reduce unstable approaches. A CDA, at the end of the day is nothing more than efficient energy management, right?
Assuming you are an EK jockey, you might want to take a look at the OMA. Flying safely from A-B is a given. You're also expected to do so efficiently!
Now, shall we get back to the topic Captain?
Assuming you're from 'merica, it doesn't surprise me that CDA's are low on your agenda. Not a criticism, just stating fact. CDA's are not a feature of US flying and therefore not really taught or encouraged. In Europe they are and need to be due to highly noise sensitive airports. Airlines get notified and often fined, particularly on departure violations. I don't think many European pilots do it for a pat on the back, it's done because that's the way most of us were trained and it's ingrained in the way we operate the aircraft.
As for your statement about CDA's likely to end up with more unstable approaches, I completely disagree. My previous Company was one of the worst offenders into LGW back in the late 90's with CDA's (after all the American airlines!). An 'education and awareness' program followed and they went from being bottom to 2nd best in 12 months. Interestingly, they found that the number of G/A's due to unstable approaches were reduced by almost half. Why? Because pilots were consciously calculating their profile and managing their energy accordingly. So, if anything, I'd say that correctly flown CDA's actually reduce unstable approaches. A CDA, at the end of the day is nothing more than efficient energy management, right?
Assuming you are an EK jockey, you might want to take a look at the OMA. Flying safely from A-B is a given. You're also expected to do so efficiently!
Now, shall we get back to the topic Captain?
Join Date: May 2004
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pay review
So heres a thought...imagine that even though we didn't make the target this year for profit share, they gave us three weeks to keep us sweet during the runway closure time.. Imagine also that they are delaying the pay review until the runway opens to keep us all working hard. Let us finally imagine that once the runway opens, they send us a message to say there is no pay rise, but thanks for your hard work....Imagine that!
As a few have already said, what company has already closed its 2013-14 financial year, posted a target and don't know what they will pay their employees....they already know and we would be foolish to think otherwise. We are going to get a big fat zero. The runway closure is the only thing on their scope right now. They have half the cabin crew missing on unpaid leave. Imagine if you will again, yet another insulting pay rise for them. Half of them wouldn't come back. The other half would come back to pick up their clothes, kiss the Leb boyfriend goodbye and depart. They know that any disruption whilst the runway fixing is going on would be disastrous. is it me though, or has the operation actually been running smoother? i haven't had any delays, push off stand normally and perhaps one or two times in the hold for 10 mins and back home I go? Maybe I am not doing the other flights?
We all said to a man, that we would never get a bonus again.....i have no clue anymore what they are playing at. just look at your seniority list to see whats happening. two steps forward and one step back. The attrition rate is picking up, that you can't hide. But despite all our rants and posts on here, people still are joining. Is it really that bad outside EK? TC said that everybody wants to work for EK...are they just kidding themselves? TBH I just can't be arsed anymore. I go to work, come home and switch off. Jeez does that mean I am now institutionalised?? I went to the China Southern roadshow along with the other 70 or so guys. It wasn't for me thats for sure. I now have an EASA licence...but work for Ryanair....no way. I don't think we can avoid , as an expat, another expat job...but where to go..
anyways back tot the question "wheres my money"
there ain't none and don't live in hope!
As a few have already said, what company has already closed its 2013-14 financial year, posted a target and don't know what they will pay their employees....they already know and we would be foolish to think otherwise. We are going to get a big fat zero. The runway closure is the only thing on their scope right now. They have half the cabin crew missing on unpaid leave. Imagine if you will again, yet another insulting pay rise for them. Half of them wouldn't come back. The other half would come back to pick up their clothes, kiss the Leb boyfriend goodbye and depart. They know that any disruption whilst the runway fixing is going on would be disastrous. is it me though, or has the operation actually been running smoother? i haven't had any delays, push off stand normally and perhaps one or two times in the hold for 10 mins and back home I go? Maybe I am not doing the other flights?
We all said to a man, that we would never get a bonus again.....i have no clue anymore what they are playing at. just look at your seniority list to see whats happening. two steps forward and one step back. The attrition rate is picking up, that you can't hide. But despite all our rants and posts on here, people still are joining. Is it really that bad outside EK? TC said that everybody wants to work for EK...are they just kidding themselves? TBH I just can't be arsed anymore. I go to work, come home and switch off. Jeez does that mean I am now institutionalised?? I went to the China Southern roadshow along with the other 70 or so guys. It wasn't for me thats for sure. I now have an EASA licence...but work for Ryanair....no way. I don't think we can avoid , as an expat, another expat job...but where to go..
anyways back tot the question "wheres my money"
there ain't none and don't live in hope!
Last edited by Uplink; 7th Jun 2014 at 08:08.
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Why do people keep saying the company didn't meet the profit share target? Here's what the boss said:
Our profits increased to Dhs4.08 billion meeting the profit share target and a three-week profit share has been declared.
Join Date: May 2013
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JAA RULE,
Incorrect, he said we fell short of our profit share target, however the company wanted to recognize everyone's hard work and therefore they would award a 3 week bonus, the video was on the portal, not sure if it's still there but that's what happened.
Guys, pay review rumors and news is appreciated CDA BS ain't.
Just to reinforce, I've heard from many other colleagues a similar rumor to the previous posts on here that the deal is pending GCAA approval for the new FTLs as Emirates is going to have to stop factoring so therefore want the 1000 hours, removing productivity and flight pay in exchange for a AED10000 Capt/AED6000 FO. Which in my view is just giving something in one hand and taking away with the other but we work even harder than we already do.
I would be amazed if EK produce a pilot package in the current and forecast suitably qualified pilot market in a time when airlines are struggling to crew aircraft in some parts of the world which falls short and puts them out of the race. Talking to colleagues back home the image here is not what it was and the interest in coming here has gone.
Incorrect, he said we fell short of our profit share target, however the company wanted to recognize everyone's hard work and therefore they would award a 3 week bonus, the video was on the portal, not sure if it's still there but that's what happened.
Guys, pay review rumors and news is appreciated CDA BS ain't.
Just to reinforce, I've heard from many other colleagues a similar rumor to the previous posts on here that the deal is pending GCAA approval for the new FTLs as Emirates is going to have to stop factoring so therefore want the 1000 hours, removing productivity and flight pay in exchange for a AED10000 Capt/AED6000 FO. Which in my view is just giving something in one hand and taking away with the other but we work even harder than we already do.
I would be amazed if EK produce a pilot package in the current and forecast suitably qualified pilot market in a time when airlines are struggling to crew aircraft in some parts of the world which falls short and puts them out of the race. Talking to colleagues back home the image here is not what it was and the interest in coming here has gone.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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It is possible the budget accounts for the pay review but the exact structure of said pay is yet to be finalized. I think we are going to see significant changes to the way our pay is structured. No idea, of course, if that means an increase or not. I can convince myself either way.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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So, when this backdated pay rise is finally announced, can we all backdate our resignation letters to May1st?
The longer the silence continues, the more the uncertainty is growing and the more we will all be looking around. I am not going to sit on my backside waiting for the company to stick or twist any longer. Invitations to interview with other airlines now being accepted - and I have only been here 5 minutes. A very poor way to manage an airline.
The longer the silence continues, the more the uncertainty is growing and the more we will all be looking around. I am not going to sit on my backside waiting for the company to stick or twist any longer. Invitations to interview with other airlines now being accepted - and I have only been here 5 minutes. A very poor way to manage an airline.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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The irony of demanding bonuses & pay raises while advocating drop and drag over CDAs (and handing out medals - WTF!) -
...is laughable..if it wasn't pathetic
Only on pprune.
What Harry said .., take some phukking pride in the job.
f.
...is laughable..if it wasn't pathetic
Only on pprune.
What Harry said .., take some phukking pride in the job.
f.