Where is the best deal at the moment? Emirates/Qatar/FD/Etihad?

[Lowrey]

I am considering leaving Europe for the Middle east?

Which airline currently offers the best conditions for a B737 first officer with 3000 hours?

How much difference is there between the long haul carriers? Salary, housing, crew hotels when underway, atmosphere, future upgrade opportunities etc.

And how does FlyDubai fit in? Is it correct that the salary is quite a lot better than Emirates, but with out housing (how much extra do you get at Emirates if you opt out)? Would it be faster to command with said 3000 hours on 737 already (and hence even higher salary within short term than the long haul carriers, where it would be expected to fly as F/O for 5-7 years)?

Thanks to anyone who would take the time to shed some light on this

[jibba_jabba]

This thread may give you an idea:

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/473668-big-move.html

[pilotcpb]

You should go to the hiring roadshows that the ME carriers are always doing in Europe and see what happens. Also you should seriously read up on what the GCC countries are like and get an idea of what its like being there. Then, go there for a weekend. A guy at one of my interviews studied his tail off then decided he hated the Middle east in general; he probably could have avoided all that trouble by just taking a vacation there first.

Do as much research as you can based on what YOU want in an airline, country, etc because once you send an application in you may get an interview invite the very next day, ask me how I know.....

I don't feel like I have an authoritative answer for you as for which carrier is best BUT I have met pilots for EK, QR, EY, AND GF and for the most part they all have the same complaints. I did turn down a job at GF because of the unrest.

[Lowrey]

Thanks, good advice about taking a vacation there before deciding. I was thinking about that as well. The "Big move" thread doesn't address all my questions, except that it seems the atmosphere is better at Emirates over Qatar and Etihad.
Regarding roadshows it never seems to fit with my schedule. Hence the reason for posting here.


Let me be more specific with my questions:

Where will I earn the most money?

1) E.g. Emirates AED 29.000 vs. FD AED 38.000.
Do I get more than AED 9.000 if opting out of Emirates provided accommodation?

2) Are Etihad and Qatar paying less or more than Emirates.

3) If going long haul, I imagine being in hotels many days a month. How are e.g. the hotels with Emirates? 5 star? downtown or airport? Any particular chain of hotels, e.g. Hilton? Don't like the idea to be stuck in some dirty airport hotel half the month. There is no information about that on the Emirates career website.

Thanks again

[Iver]

Lowrey,

Come to the Middle East with your eyes WIDE OPEN. Flydubai would be at the lower end of the scale IMO. I'd try for EK first, QR next (787s coming in June) and then EY.

I probably wouldn't even consider FD - read the threads about FD and you will understand why... None of these airlines is close to perfect, so, expect challenges anywhere you go and visit the Gulf BEFORE applying to make sure you can handle the culture and the blazing heat.

[pilotcpb]

I'd say Iver has got it nailed; I never even considered FD mainly because they do NOT provide housing, and they have a 2 part interview process that involves one spending his own money for the first stage. Why join a LCC when there are mainline carriers hiring? Just my opinion.

[Iver]

I am sure some pilots really enjoy FD. If you want to spend most nights home like at a Euro LCC, FD would fit the bill. If you have no interest in flying anything but the 737NG for the rest of your time at FD, then that airline would suit you. If you want to fly to some somewhat dangerous (but exciting!!!!) destinations in war zones, then FD would be for you. If you MUST live in Dubai, FD would work.

But, if you qualify for EK, QR or EY (and all are hiring), then FD would be the last choice I would consider.

[Lowrey]

Good, thanks for the input. I'll forget FD when there are no benefits, I have no particular interest in 737, I would actually prefer long haul.

If someone could answer the last two questions, I would be very happy.

[Jetaim]

my suggestion..

My suggestion is... if you have a secure job in Europe or anywhere in the civilized West stick to it.
I did your same mistake and I'm still paying the consequences.
In the ME there is no job security. You might find yourself in trouble for a number of silly reasons. Ask your self why EK is finding it so hard to crew their planes. They are more desperate and continoulsy lowering their minima. Furthermore it is most of the times a one way ticket and after a few years ( months? ) Dubai starts really to feel tight and you tired of bouncing from mall to mall for 9 months a year.. You will spend enourmous amount of money cause that is how everything is set up .. to make you spend. Dubai's money stays in Dubai.

[noiva]

2) Hard to say, each of them claims from time-to-time that they have the best deal money wise (cash in your hand) QR probably pays the best, however EK probably has the best total package

3) Mostly from big chains (e.g Marriott) and you will have to get used to some airport hotels

[busav8r]

Jetaim, you said it all. Thanks for your advice.

[Lowrey]

Thanks for the responses again. Much appreciated. I was leaning towards Emirates before posting and after your replies still do.

In the ME there is no job security. You might find yourself in trouble for a number of silly reasons.

What exactly do you mean by that?

You will spend enourmous amount of money cause that is how everything is set up .. to make you spend. Dubai's money stays in Dubai.

My situation is that I don't know where the future of my present company is headed, so layoffs may be a possibility down the road. If I go to the Middle east , I would set my mind that it's temporary (2-4 years) with the option of extending my stay if I feel comfortable. With that mindset I think it should be bearable for a couple of years even if I don't like it there.

My biggest motivation to go there is the money, since I will be able to find other jobs in Europe (already have interviews). However, since I am already away from home for my present job and the other jobs I will be interviewing for, I thought why not go a bit further away to get more money.

Can you elaborate "Dubai's money stays in Dubai"?

Do you mean that you spend a lot of cash because you get bored?

I just want to live a simple life, go to the grocery store and stay in my apartment, by the pool, sitting at my computer or what ever and maybe occasionally going for something to eat or a beer with who ever I make acquaintance with. Will that eat up my AED 28.000? I'm single, no children. If so my motivation to go there disappeared instantly. Actually I was hoping I could send home at least AED 15.000 to my bank in Europe each month - is that unrealistic?

You may PM me if you are more comfortable. Same goes for everyone else of course.

And everyone thanks again for taking your time.

[GShocker]

... or you all can answer in public as well, because there are lots of other people who would like to hear details about everything.

I've applied to EK and been through the interviews and sim and now waiting for a call to go to final assessments in Dubai.

I'm also planning to move by myself but I have family I will leave behind. I have two children but they are so small, (older just began school) so I cannot take them with me and with their mother we have had our roads crossing for a number of years now and even though we are not married I still am going to leave her, whether I go to Dubai or not. Nevertheless, I'm planning to send part of my salary back home for my kids.

So do you guys think it's impossible to keep (a bigger) part of the salary for yourself and send a small amount back home and still live a decent life in UAE? Compared on my current position I'd almost triple my monthly salary in EK and by moving there I wouldn't have to pay astronomical rents of the houses that we have in my country.

I'd say at least financially the EK deal would be quite nice. What comes to my kids, well, internet and phones are invented, planes do fly between Europe and UAE quite often and even though EK duty hours are quite high at the time, I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a few days off in a row every now and then to be able to fly to home country to pay a visit to my kids. And of course they are able to come to me in Dubai when they have vacation from school.

Are my thoughts just pure utopia or do they make any sense at all. Active EK pilots, please comment.

[sandyballs]

You have to come and see the place and make a decision on the numbers they give you, it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's certainly not as bleak as some of the Masters of doom would have you believe!

Commuting with any of the companies will be tough if not impossible, if that's your plan forget it. It is expensive to live here but you can choose to live like a hermit and save if you wish. I would say if you choose the latter option your stay will be short!

Youre not going to make your fortune here so if that's the ultimate aim I would say stay where you are, You are the only one who knows if it's right for you so come and look and then decide, it will be an expensive mistake if you come and hate it!

Good luck

[silhouette]

2) EY FO Salary now start at AED25.990 (AED550 annually increment), housing AED13.333 and Flight & Layover paid around AED5.000 for 75h a month.

Taking vacation in Abu Dhabi or Dubai before interviewing is good idea, but you can also experience it during an assessment also.. EY will provide you a ticket from one of their Destinations to Abu Dhabi (confirmed but non-upgradable ), you can negotiate for travel date how many days before your assessment and take that as your free vacation before interview. Stay at Park-Inn Yas Island is nice with Ocean and Yas Link view and right now the weather is superb.

for Airbus, Command Upgrade will be based on Seniority only which is 3.5 years to be in the queue, that will make you qualified for their internal upgrade requirements.
5500 hours grand total AND
3000 hours on multi crew
and 700 hours in ETIHAD OR
1500 hours on type

[Cowtown]

Lowrey

As a single guy at EK you can easily send home 15 000 AED. Especially if you live the lifestyle that you have indicated. If you then opt out of company housing you can save more.

My case, F/O with kids, some months nothing saved, others 6000AED. Throw in visitors then not a hope of saving that month. We didn't come here to exist but to enjoy life, and that we do. All depends on your lifestyle, and that of your wife!

Been here 3 years now and family still enjoying Dubai etc. Being on the Bus, fatigue is an issue and when the command eventually comes around I expect the fatigue issue to get worse.

Feel free to ask any more questions. I can only tell it as I see it.

Later...

[abudhabitaxidriver]

Stay away from EY. EK is a much better choice.
G'd Luck

[bigcheeks]

F/O on the 320 at EY making 43,000 per month (inclusive of housing / flight / layover). Im single and renting a fully serviced luxury studio on a monthly basis, eating out most nights, entertaining, shopping & enjoying. I send home minimum 25,000AED every month.

[trigger21]

Bigcheeks!! You must be a right tight git to be saving 25,000 AED per month! I struggle to save 10k!

I think EK as an overall package is probably the best out of all of them. Yes at EY we spend our lives doing the same routes which does get boring but salary is still good compared to back home and with the expansion of the 777 flet, new routes and upgrades may come pretty quick....In terms of bonuses, it's a bit of a sore subject at the moment. Again, EK get quite large bonuses, but have been in profit for years. You have to remember that EY is still a very young airline and they are yet o make profit. Hence no bonuses as such have been issued...fingers crossed for the 2011 results nd our pockets!

[camel_hump]

Middle East is what you make of it. 777 f/o at EK and single and loving it. Opted out of company accom since day 1 and renting a huge 2 bedroom apartment for half of the allowances that EK gives, so am pocketing an extra 80k per year
Driving a Porsche Cayenne and every now and then taking some of my female work colleagues out or home

Got a maid who comes in every week for the usual housewife chores at dhs50 per hour, she stays for 2 hrs...am good with that.
Monthly income approx 38k...still ok wit me.
Normally eat out but once in a while my neighbours philipino maid like to visit........shhhh (thats actually illegal eh)

There are moaners in EK but am not one...so far. I get my roster and accept whatever flight they give, go to work and fly as per their OM bible and take the little silver volvo back home and am happy.

I know for a fact there are worse jobs out there so i wake up everyday and thank 'allah' for whatever i have.