Gulf Air career progression
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Gulf Air career progression
I applied for Embraer 170/190 DEC with GF. If I'm successful, what would be my career progression there? In other words, would I go to A320 or 330 at some point or would I be limited to Embraer?
Any other tips are greatly appreciated.
Any other tips are greatly appreciated.
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AQ for your info. the DEC at GF is going to be on GF contracts which are full time just like the rest of us from what many are saying. as far as progression who knows, your seniority would be bottom of list so IF the embraers stay long term theorhetically you will stay there because all FO's upgraded would have higher seniority and be first inline to move to 320. realistically they will require more 320 capts and when demand is there you will be moved inshallah. if the aircraft go you are on GF contracts and you will be moved to 320 as GF has proven in the past they do move pilots
good luck and hope that answers some of your questions
good luck and hope that answers some of your questions
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This would be a good question to pose at the interview, showing interest in career progression with GF would be a tick markin the "plus" column for sure!
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Honestly brother, if you have time in type as per the requirements I'm assuming you're flying an E170 state side? Why would you want to fly the same plane in Bahrain, Middle East and become a street CA? Being a direct entry CA is usually a pretty bad deal unless you're on a contract. You'll just be bumped by senior FOs.
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GF has no skilled management. It will lurch from one crisis to another. It will not respect your contract if it suits them not too. "Career progression" ??? Good grief man. It will NOT respect Seniority listing & refer to it when it suits them. When you leave (as you surely will if you have a brain) they will steal from your indemnity & they will not honour indemnity contractual payments). And, even looking at a company losing millions, changes CEO as often as you do socks, completely corrupt management (who you know, not WHAT you know), for heavens sake buddy, take your skills elsewhere.
BUT, if you are out of work, can't find a job anywhere else, it is one of the better pit-stops while you "progress" your career. One of the better mid East locations, fun crowd, Bahrainis are VERY funny, pilots are the best bunch of professionals I ever flew with (I was there only for a brief period) but, look, go there, do your job, sign the Tech log & go play. Just like Ironbutts, living his dream. No no no, no-one slap him or wake him up...oh bless.
BUT, if you are out of work, can't find a job anywhere else, it is one of the better pit-stops while you "progress" your career. One of the better mid East locations, fun crowd, Bahrainis are VERY funny, pilots are the best bunch of professionals I ever flew with (I was there only for a brief period) but, look, go there, do your job, sign the Tech log & go play. Just like Ironbutts, living his dream. No no no, no-one slap him or wake him up...oh bless.
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When you leave (as you surely will if you have a brain) they will steal from your indemnity & they will not honour indemnity contractual payments)
For those of us who actually enjoy working here most of the time, (the brainless ones apparently), could you please expand on your indemnity comments so that we can be prepared if and when we decide to leave? (when we part with our rose coloured spectacles I suppose....)
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Well I felt cheated the day I left Bahrain.
I was required to present myself and all my leaving paperwork a few hours before my repatriation flight to the Bahrain Government pensions office.
I was to reclaim or have a valiant attempt at reclaiming as promised, (with a promised interest rate of 3.5% per year compounded) a 600BD deduction that had been made from my salary towards the mandatory government pension scheme enforced on expats. "23 years" previously.
This deduction over three months had been made after the GF expat company provident fund was terminated in 1976...this move saved the company contributing into this fund.
I saw on the pensions office computer screen a sum alongside my name "after 23years of waiting for my money back" in excess of 1400BD.
This was before the screen was changed because... I was reading it.
It was then suggested to me that I should donate... this money to the PLO.
I declined however I was grateful to the PLO for never hijacking or killing me or my passengers and never believed the rumors that GF paid 10million dinars a year to achieve this. I believed then only bad GF rumors were true.
I was eventually handed a government cheque for my original 600BD which they had sat on for 23years...take it or leave it.
Being a Gf pilot I taked it! because I needed to cash this cheque immediately as I had to close my last bank account... before racing to the airport to catch my 10.00am local repatriation flight to LHR.
My very last task was to hand in my security identification card and the lady in duty window whispered to me..."Captain you go back now to your country, we all wish you a painless death!"
Now no-longer employed by GF I was not entitled to crew transport.. so I "drag baged" one final time across the car parks to the check in desk contemplating the "Painless death wish". Being an optimistic type of guy I decided to treat her sudden communication after pretty much nill for many years as an Arabic type compliment.
As I progressed across the car parks I reflected upon the built in difficulties of East West communications. I then pondered politically and ended up wishing the hot shots in the USA government loads of luck understanding this important part of the world.
I decided to watch their progress or lack of it as I was nearly creamed by a local young driver in a car I would never afford. This was in 2000.
I was ticketed and and gratefully accepted being seated in economy class for my repatriation flight as I understood the "You no longer work for Gulf Air".
After the doors had closed the local flight Captain came back and moved me into first class...however I noticed he was told by the FSS he could no longer do this and she would report him...The "Lion of the Air" advised her "Do it".
I was upgraded and was delighted to join another GF Captain friend who had retired the previous year... those were the days when retired GF Captains traveled in first class...I think it has all changed now and I do not know if GF even have a first class anymore.
Approaching LHR there were terrific thunder storms at the airport and the Lion Of The Air..."Thanks be to his God" held clear of these.
When we eventually made it onto final approach and onto the runway I think two ex Gf Captains both did a little sigh of relief..I know I did.
The thunderstorms being over... as we taxied in we saw two beautiful large complete rainbows encompassing both parallel runways.....We both laughed when I said "Tony that is what we get from GF for 53years service as Captains and added plus no pensions!"..."One rainbow for me and one rainbow for you" we then discussed who should have first rainbow choice and who had the most seniority!
Luckily... I am still awaiting the GF wish of "A painless death" however I would not bet my house on it coming true...I will try and let you know how it went when the time comes.
I notice the USA increasingly does not trust anyone East of Dover or South of Key West. Mistrust seems a worldwide growth industry worth perhaps investing in via the usual gold and silver bullion.
Sadly I read there has been fake gold sold in the gold market of Bahrain, who would have believed that in the 70s when I bought mine.
Luckily my Gold and Silver has done a bit better than the 600BD the Bahrain government took and sat on for 23years.
I wish Iran lots of luck regarding their intentions towards their brothers across the Gulf and can assure them these brothers are working hard for them...and maybe also "Wishing them a painless death... because they like you"
It is a funny old world and GF is a funny old company, being now a funny old pilot I tend to like funny old things...like funny old trust worthy L1011 flight engineers.
Us retirees on no pensions from GF still hope GF survives and eventually drops its policy of excluding or ignoring input from crews...in my time I loved the memo that said.."Pilots inputs are neither necessary or required" I then knew Gf was heading for a crash...we kept it from happening for a long time... however it is absolutely fascinating to see still this totally biz-are management thinking still 30years on and still at work...the quality of the management decisions I feel just gets worse and worse.
Personally I love to try and guess what next rotten rabbits the various management teams are going to pull out of their corrupt hats...talk about downwards and backwards...I obviously got it completely wrong in thinking it should be upwards and onwards.
Failed again..onwards and upwards...getting old! You will too one day ...If you are lucky!
I was required to present myself and all my leaving paperwork a few hours before my repatriation flight to the Bahrain Government pensions office.
I was to reclaim or have a valiant attempt at reclaiming as promised, (with a promised interest rate of 3.5% per year compounded) a 600BD deduction that had been made from my salary towards the mandatory government pension scheme enforced on expats. "23 years" previously.
This deduction over three months had been made after the GF expat company provident fund was terminated in 1976...this move saved the company contributing into this fund.
I saw on the pensions office computer screen a sum alongside my name "after 23years of waiting for my money back" in excess of 1400BD.
This was before the screen was changed because... I was reading it.
It was then suggested to me that I should donate... this money to the PLO.
I declined however I was grateful to the PLO for never hijacking or killing me or my passengers and never believed the rumors that GF paid 10million dinars a year to achieve this. I believed then only bad GF rumors were true.
I was eventually handed a government cheque for my original 600BD which they had sat on for 23years...take it or leave it.
Being a Gf pilot I taked it! because I needed to cash this cheque immediately as I had to close my last bank account... before racing to the airport to catch my 10.00am local repatriation flight to LHR.
My very last task was to hand in my security identification card and the lady in duty window whispered to me..."Captain you go back now to your country, we all wish you a painless death!"
Now no-longer employed by GF I was not entitled to crew transport.. so I "drag baged" one final time across the car parks to the check in desk contemplating the "Painless death wish". Being an optimistic type of guy I decided to treat her sudden communication after pretty much nill for many years as an Arabic type compliment.
As I progressed across the car parks I reflected upon the built in difficulties of East West communications. I then pondered politically and ended up wishing the hot shots in the USA government loads of luck understanding this important part of the world.
I decided to watch their progress or lack of it as I was nearly creamed by a local young driver in a car I would never afford. This was in 2000.
I was ticketed and and gratefully accepted being seated in economy class for my repatriation flight as I understood the "You no longer work for Gulf Air".
After the doors had closed the local flight Captain came back and moved me into first class...however I noticed he was told by the FSS he could no longer do this and she would report him...The "Lion of the Air" advised her "Do it".
I was upgraded and was delighted to join another GF Captain friend who had retired the previous year... those were the days when retired GF Captains traveled in first class...I think it has all changed now and I do not know if GF even have a first class anymore.
Approaching LHR there were terrific thunder storms at the airport and the Lion Of The Air..."Thanks be to his God" held clear of these.
When we eventually made it onto final approach and onto the runway I think two ex Gf Captains both did a little sigh of relief..I know I did.
The thunderstorms being over... as we taxied in we saw two beautiful large complete rainbows encompassing both parallel runways.....We both laughed when I said "Tony that is what we get from GF for 53years service as Captains and added plus no pensions!"..."One rainbow for me and one rainbow for you" we then discussed who should have first rainbow choice and who had the most seniority!
Luckily... I am still awaiting the GF wish of "A painless death" however I would not bet my house on it coming true...I will try and let you know how it went when the time comes.
I notice the USA increasingly does not trust anyone East of Dover or South of Key West. Mistrust seems a worldwide growth industry worth perhaps investing in via the usual gold and silver bullion.
Sadly I read there has been fake gold sold in the gold market of Bahrain, who would have believed that in the 70s when I bought mine.
Luckily my Gold and Silver has done a bit better than the 600BD the Bahrain government took and sat on for 23years.
I wish Iran lots of luck regarding their intentions towards their brothers across the Gulf and can assure them these brothers are working hard for them...and maybe also "Wishing them a painless death... because they like you"
It is a funny old world and GF is a funny old company, being now a funny old pilot I tend to like funny old things...like funny old trust worthy L1011 flight engineers.
Us retirees on no pensions from GF still hope GF survives and eventually drops its policy of excluding or ignoring input from crews...in my time I loved the memo that said.."Pilots inputs are neither necessary or required" I then knew Gf was heading for a crash...we kept it from happening for a long time... however it is absolutely fascinating to see still this totally biz-are management thinking still 30years on and still at work...the quality of the management decisions I feel just gets worse and worse.
Personally I love to try and guess what next rotten rabbits the various management teams are going to pull out of their corrupt hats...talk about downwards and backwards...I obviously got it completely wrong in thinking it should be upwards and onwards.
Failed again..onwards and upwards...getting old! You will too one day ...If you are lucky!
Last edited by 40&80; 22nd Jan 2011 at 19:28.
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GFA career stalled ?
Try this!
Location : opposite GFA HDQ
Information Sessions for Experienced First Officers
Emirates employ highly skilled and successful Flight Deck Crew from around the world. We are currently recruiting experienced and technically proficient First Officers to fly our extensive international route network. The First Officer position offers an exceptional opportunity for ambitious pilots to develop their career on one of the youngest high-tech fleets, with one of the fastest growing and most profitable airlines in the world. Emirates now has 200 wide-body aircraft worth more than US$67 billion on orderto add to it's current fleet of 153 aircraft including A330/A340/A380's and B777's.
Emirates will be conducting information sessions in Bahrain on 2nd and 3rd February 2011. These sessions will provide more information on Emirates, our selection programme, the benefits of living and working in Dubai and details of our remuneration package.
2nd February 2011 Movenpick Hotel 15:00 - 18:00pm
3rd February 2011 Movenpick Hotel 10:00am - 13:00pm
Please note that spouses are welcome to attend.
better than flying RJs intra-gulf.....
Try this!
Location : opposite GFA HDQ
Information Sessions for Experienced First Officers
Emirates employ highly skilled and successful Flight Deck Crew from around the world. We are currently recruiting experienced and technically proficient First Officers to fly our extensive international route network. The First Officer position offers an exceptional opportunity for ambitious pilots to develop their career on one of the youngest high-tech fleets, with one of the fastest growing and most profitable airlines in the world. Emirates now has 200 wide-body aircraft worth more than US$67 billion on orderto add to it's current fleet of 153 aircraft including A330/A340/A380's and B777's.
Emirates will be conducting information sessions in Bahrain on 2nd and 3rd February 2011. These sessions will provide more information on Emirates, our selection programme, the benefits of living and working in Dubai and details of our remuneration package.
2nd February 2011 Movenpick Hotel 15:00 - 18:00pm
3rd February 2011 Movenpick Hotel 10:00am - 13:00pm
Please note that spouses are welcome to attend.
better than flying RJs intra-gulf.....
Last edited by GrannySmith; 23rd Jan 2011 at 09:04.
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Che, I think 40&80 puts it all in perspective. Well said 40&80 and of course you & Seniors like you will always go onward & upward. For my part Che, I was only in GF for a short spell. I was recruited in Lodon for DEC 767. They called the night before & told me that due to change of policy, it would be RHS. Again, they told me that RHS to LHS would be very fast as I was an existing Commander with tons of experience. After six months in GF RHS, there was no sign of my "rapid career progression". I got out & hardly scratched the surface for indemnity.
However, it was the experience of a dear colleague of mine that made me respond. The indemnity package includes (by law) ALL ALLOWANCES. GF has ignored that for years. Your indemnity will be based on basic pay only. GF know that they are breaking local labour law but when you take off your rose tinted glasses & get the other half of your brain back, you will see that GF is above the law. You will be prevented (effectively) from challenging them because you are required to sign a "No further Claim" letter when you go, exhausted, to the pink palace to collect your cheque. Failure to sign this agreement means no final cheque ! My mate was deducted tons of dinars for all sorts of made up things like 'unauthorised leave' and oh yeah, realised he could kiss goodbye to the thousands tied up in the 'allowance' formula. He just wanted to get out of the rotten place & has never looked back.
So, che, read carefully 40 & 80's excellent submission. When you are done with GF or they are done with you be ready for some big shocks. While it serves YOU well, enjoy.
However, it was the experience of a dear colleague of mine that made me respond. The indemnity package includes (by law) ALL ALLOWANCES. GF has ignored that for years. Your indemnity will be based on basic pay only. GF know that they are breaking local labour law but when you take off your rose tinted glasses & get the other half of your brain back, you will see that GF is above the law. You will be prevented (effectively) from challenging them because you are required to sign a "No further Claim" letter when you go, exhausted, to the pink palace to collect your cheque. Failure to sign this agreement means no final cheque ! My mate was deducted tons of dinars for all sorts of made up things like 'unauthorised leave' and oh yeah, realised he could kiss goodbye to the thousands tied up in the 'allowance' formula. He just wanted to get out of the rotten place & has never looked back.
So, che, read carefully 40 & 80's excellent submission. When you are done with GF or they are done with you be ready for some big shocks. While it serves YOU well, enjoy.
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Landflap
Hi there,
Thanks for your reply and indeed I do know the bit about fixed allowances etc., however it is always interesting to see how the game played out with others so that there are no surprises awaiting you.
This is the Middle East after all and things don't always look like they seem, the shifting sands of Arabia comes readily to mind. I think anyone who comes here and expects different is dreaming. You only have to listen to what happens to pilots leaving QA to recognise that this is not the only place that 'things happen' that you can do nothing about.
That is why many of us stay here, perhaps sometimes against our better judgement....you see, we do have 'half a brain' afterall!
Finally, Tony (40&80) glad things are going well for you and thanks for your input. Interesting comment about 'awaiting a painless death'....is this SOP with all leavers?
Cheers
Thanks for your reply and indeed I do know the bit about fixed allowances etc., however it is always interesting to see how the game played out with others so that there are no surprises awaiting you.
This is the Middle East after all and things don't always look like they seem, the shifting sands of Arabia comes readily to mind. I think anyone who comes here and expects different is dreaming. You only have to listen to what happens to pilots leaving QA to recognise that this is not the only place that 'things happen' that you can do nothing about.
One of the better mid East locations, fun crowd, Bahrainis are VERY funny, pilots are the best bunch of professionals I ever flew with
Finally, Tony (40&80) glad things are going well for you and thanks for your input. Interesting comment about 'awaiting a painless death'....is this SOP with all leavers?
Cheers
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GF is just like everyone else in this region. decent job that requires u to see the OBVIOUS to be happy. if u spent 100(lol) years here and did not know the indemnity rules that GF tells u about then why wait for your last week to complain about it? Also EK is a great gig for a junior FO to move to. As a SFO why the hell would u want to go to place where u would wait 5-10years for command making LESS money then here? Have quite a few friends there now and they all seem to think the same. Anyways GF is no gem but lets be realistic they are paying us an industry standard salary and we all know the deal. I find it very frustrasting that so many poeple seem to want to BITCH on here and NOT many are willing to voice concerns in OFFICAL form to the CP and DFO. Even less want to stop flying on there days off and "sacrifice" that prescious 30bd/50bd to inforce change upon our company. so in the end why dont we all just give up and shut up or actually WALK THE WALK!!!!