EK Annual Results, EK Bonus, Emirates Profits etc
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And once more the EK pilot fraternity are not satisfied.
How many airlines have turned a profit this year? How many have given any form of bonus or profit share? How many pilots have been layed off in one form or another?
3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year.
I doubt many airline pilots can claim a increase of over 10%
As pointed out: Don't bite the hand that feeds. Undoubtably it will have undesired repercusions.
How many airlines have turned a profit this year? How many have given any form of bonus or profit share? How many pilots have been layed off in one form or another?
3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year.
I doubt many airline pilots can claim a increase of over 10%
As pointed out: Don't bite the hand that feeds. Undoubtably it will have undesired repercusions.
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Mister Warning that is hilarious, nice one mate, laughed me 'ead off. I think the mod is right tho (and it pains me to say it!) it's gotta be a wind up.
However the fact that mm has bothered to post with that cr@p suggests that he possibly could believe the sh!te that he writes. In fact refer to Mister Warning's previous post (still making me laugh).
However the fact that mm has bothered to post with that cr@p suggests that he possibly could believe the sh!te that he writes. In fact refer to Mister Warning's previous post (still making me laugh).
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Thank you to the moderator for quelling the inevitable hysterics of outrage. I will ignore the less couth as it merely indicates the measure of the man.
Choose to believe what you will. The facts however are the facts, as much as anyone may not like it. The overall adjustment to the yearly salary by virtue of increments and bonus is OK in anyone's book.
As most seem to forget, a company has one objective: to be profitable. That will involve adjusting remuneration to a level that is a minimum cost without large scale migration of skilled workers.
This objective has been achieved. It will remain stable as the successful recruitment of required numbers indicates.
Some may move on as is their right. Most will not. If the balance changes the package will be adjusted. It is that simple. Its business.
Can you blame any manager for working to his directive any more than a captain can be blamed for ensuring saftety?
Choose to believe what you will. The facts however are the facts, as much as anyone may not like it. The overall adjustment to the yearly salary by virtue of increments and bonus is OK in anyone's book.
As most seem to forget, a company has one objective: to be profitable. That will involve adjusting remuneration to a level that is a minimum cost without large scale migration of skilled workers.
This objective has been achieved. It will remain stable as the successful recruitment of required numbers indicates.
Some may move on as is their right. Most will not. If the balance changes the package will be adjusted. It is that simple. Its business.
Can you blame any manager for working to his directive any more than a captain can be blamed for ensuring saftety?
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Herein lies the problem, and what many people take issue with - a compartmental company with all these managers working for his/her directive to line their own pockets.... every man for himself MM.
Just an extension of the ME, no heart no soul. Business, Greed. Period.
Thanks for the profit share, have a nice day.
Just an extension of the ME, no heart no soul. Business, Greed. Period.
Thanks for the profit share, have a nice day.
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Hi ManagementMoron,
how many airlines made a Billion profit?
the other airlines got it fixed in their contracts how much bonus they will pay for whatever profit. They dont rely on some guys in funny dresses to decide it
how many airlines changes the contracts unilaterally at their will?
how many airlines give tripple/quadrupel/whateverupel bonuses to their blown up VP corps?
Where did you go to school dude? Thats not 10% increase
Thats a one time bonus plus a 6% increase thats already eaten up by the "productivity adjustments" and the inflation!
And they dont talk about the "state of aviation"...its about EK!!
btw EK constantly bites the hands that produces the profits!
how many airlines made a Billion profit?
the other airlines got it fixed in their contracts how much bonus they will pay for whatever profit. They dont rely on some guys in funny dresses to decide it
how many airlines changes the contracts unilaterally at their will?
how many airlines give tripple/quadrupel/whateverupel bonuses to their blown up VP corps?
3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year.
I doubt many airline pilots can claim a increase of over 10%
I doubt many airline pilots can claim a increase of over 10%
Thats a one time bonus plus a 6% increase thats already eaten up by the "productivity adjustments" and the inflation!
And they dont talk about the "state of aviation"...its about EK!!
btw EK constantly bites the hands that produces the profits!
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ah ah ah!!
I feel sorry for you Management Motion.
I think the only motility you should talk of is the one of your intestine.
You are just and simply taking advantage of large unaccountability ( but not complete) and of the ununionized environment.
I just checked some old paylsip from my previous company.
My gross salary in 2004 was an avarage of 7000 euros wich gave a me a net 4500 x 14 months plus real for life pension contribution, health care, and insurance.
This idea of accounting as social costs accommodation it is ilarious as the accommodation itself.
You have to realize that notwithstanding all the marketing attempt Dubai is and will always be a overheated cesspool where only desperate and unemployed people can think of moving, or idiots that did not listen to what was written on this forum like me when it was time.
But don't worry, we are committed to do our best to let the civilized world know about your clever stratagems and slavery like methods. As some EU operator affirms you are operating with a substantial unfairly competitive advantage. Paying a ramp agent 550 usd and make him sleep in a labor camp in the outskirt of the desert is a too easy way to compete with real employers bearing real social costs and contributing to real economy. Your profit just goes in the pockets of the funny dressed guy owning the place substantial slaver and exployter of the poor.
You and every EK employee in magement position should feel ashamed of working for such an organization and profiting from it. EK is a low cost airline carrying disinehrited people around the world. Just kind of a modern slave trader. Take any and each five dirham note from your bonus ans stick it up into your arse... along with the fist.
I'll see you soon in Geneva.. we are working on it my dear.
I think the only motility you should talk of is the one of your intestine.
You are just and simply taking advantage of large unaccountability ( but not complete) and of the ununionized environment.
I just checked some old paylsip from my previous company.
My gross salary in 2004 was an avarage of 7000 euros wich gave a me a net 4500 x 14 months plus real for life pension contribution, health care, and insurance.
This idea of accounting as social costs accommodation it is ilarious as the accommodation itself.
You have to realize that notwithstanding all the marketing attempt Dubai is and will always be a overheated cesspool where only desperate and unemployed people can think of moving, or idiots that did not listen to what was written on this forum like me when it was time.
But don't worry, we are committed to do our best to let the civilized world know about your clever stratagems and slavery like methods. As some EU operator affirms you are operating with a substantial unfairly competitive advantage. Paying a ramp agent 550 usd and make him sleep in a labor camp in the outskirt of the desert is a too easy way to compete with real employers bearing real social costs and contributing to real economy. Your profit just goes in the pockets of the funny dressed guy owning the place substantial slaver and exployter of the poor.
You and every EK employee in magement position should feel ashamed of working for such an organization and profiting from it. EK is a low cost airline carrying disinehrited people around the world. Just kind of a modern slave trader. Take any and each five dirham note from your bonus ans stick it up into your arse... along with the fist.
I'll see you soon in Geneva.. we are working on it my dear.
Last edited by sheikmyarse; 14th May 2010 at 13:12.
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Hello BowelMotion, thank you for keeping this very therapeutic thread running a little longer than it would have, and also for pointing out the painfully obvious facts, in case anyone didn't get it yet.
While your piss-taking posts are not as amusing as EKManagement's, they do still serve a purpose most likely lost on many of the herd here: to continue raising the issues, including by use of satire, which concern us all.
Please write another EKManagement post; it's about time!
While your piss-taking posts are not as amusing as EKManagement's, they do still serve a purpose most likely lost on many of the herd here: to continue raising the issues, including by use of satire, which concern us all.
Please write another EKManagement post; it's about time!
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forgot to mention what the funny dressed guys do with the money:
They build ******* palm shaped island in the middle of the sea ,an environmental disaster, and they manage to make a 80 billion dollar hole in the water.This makes all the story even more immoral.
They build ******* palm shaped island in the middle of the sea ,an environmental disaster, and they manage to make a 80 billion dollar hole in the water.This makes all the story even more immoral.
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MM, always interesting to have your "unique perspective" aired in this forum. I'll address some of your points though in the past you have proven yourself quite selective in responding to individual points raised here.
Point taken. This was a horrible year for airlines and I will agree that the general trend in the industry was down for employee compensation. What many of us object to is to be told that Emirates avoided layoffs and paycuts. This is simply not true. In the latest Fleet Facts, AS admitted that the entire profit was driven by cost cuts. The burden borne by your crew, cockpit and cabin was in my opinion disproportionate. The cockpit crew took a significant hit in terms and conditions, some of which was a direct violation of our contracts. The pay increase and bonus do not make up for this but what is even more infuriating is the way this has been portrayed by those of you in the ivory tower. Not once were we told, it's going to be a hard year - we all have to tighten our belts. We were instead told that the airline was "reducing its carbon footprint", "given the level of ULR flying, current thresholds for productivity payments are unrealistic (I'm paraphrasing)" and my favorite, "even though your contract says 42 days, it really only means 30." The way this was "managed" is an abject lesson in LACK OF LEADERSHIP. Recent communications from our "leadership" indicates that while this is an expat job with supposedly "expat benefits", the company resents providing those benefits. We are continually told about our obligations to our employer, usually through veiled threats like that below, yet the company fails to fulfill its obligations to us, through our contracts or just through lack of duty of care. I refer to continued brushing off of legitimate fatigue issues - the latest being that if it's legal, it's safe. I have never worked anywhere that when legitimate safety issues are brought up to our "leaders" in a calm and unemotional manner that those issues are met with bluster, denial and threats. If you really wonder why Emirates pilots are so pissed off, I suggest that you consider that rather than resort to your tired rationale of some mass personality disorder.
And that pretty much sums up the Emirates management model, "shut up and do what your told - or else." Certainly the market is in your favour right now though given the state of the market, it is interesting that Emirates is having difficulty recruiting flightdeck. A more long-term view would suggest that to disenfranchise the single largest workforce that has disproportionate responsibility for the safe and efficient operation of the airline is just bad business.
To sum up, the company overdid it. It reduced its costs enormously on the backs of its line employees and did not even have the grace to acknowledge it. The damage that has been done to morale is difficult to quantify - and I'm talking company wide, everyone that I talk to (not just pilots and flight attendants) is completely demoralized - and the fallout will continue for years.
(I suggest you check over what you write before you send it as poor spelling and grammar do take away from the effectiveness of your arguments.)
And once more the EK pilot fraternity are (sic) not satisfied.
How many airlines have turned a profit this year? How many have given any form of bonus or profit share? How many pilots have been layed (sp) off in one form or another?
3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year. I doubt many airline pilots can claim a (sic) increase of over 10%
3 weeks equates to an extra 5.75% salary on top of a 6% increase. Not bad considering the state of aviation over the past year. I doubt many airline pilots can claim a (sic) increase of over 10%
As pointed out: Don't bite the hand that feeds. Undoubtably (sp) it will have undesired repercusions.(sp)
To sum up, the company overdid it. It reduced its costs enormously on the backs of its line employees and did not even have the grace to acknowledge it. The damage that has been done to morale is difficult to quantify - and I'm talking company wide, everyone that I talk to (not just pilots and flight attendants) is completely demoralized - and the fallout will continue for years.
(I suggest you check over what you write before you send it as poor spelling and grammar do take away from the effectiveness of your arguments.)
Last edited by Fuzz Lightbeer; 14th May 2010 at 21:14.
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Profit Share..what profit share? My rough calculations indicate to me that I gave up 85K this last year with loss of productivity and a missing step. So when I am graciously given about 28K of it back, am I supposed to be happy?? I tried that with my dog, gave him a bag of biscuits to eat, much tail wagging. Then I took them all away, very unhappy. But he went crazy when I gave him just one biscuit back...
I am not a dog.
I am not a dog.
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Please everyone, stop referring to it as a bonus. Its not. It is our entitlement. 1. The profit target is to be set by the company. 2. Employees are to receive 25% of all profit over that. The company has this in writing for everyone to read. We as employees EARNED our share of the profit just as the company EARNED its 4,200,000,000.00 The company did not BONUS 4.2. We all got snookered. P.S. A bonus is on top of what I was promised to be making. I have a very very long way to go before I get anything that could be remotely considered a bonus.
Also don't MM don't ever ever equate Profit to Safety. That is wrong on so many levels.
Also don't MM don't ever ever equate Profit to Safety. That is wrong on so many levels.
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I hear the arguments but they lack substance.
Pay has not dropped. Work has gone up.
Is it unreasonable to expect the current hours for the package? If it is, then why are so many still here and more joining. I assume they consider it a fair trade.
Is it unreasonable for a company to maximise productivity? Actually it is their duty.
Vague ideas of reduced safety margins lack statistical evidence.
Concerns on morality are simply opinions. Companies operate on legalities. If there is any breach then take it through correct channels and let them decide.
Efficiency gets better and better. The annual results show that too. Economics of scale and fine tuning of remuneration far outweigh any inefficiencies that the pilots may observe or "fallout" from morale damage
The wicked local lining his pockets is another slanted argument. Many companies from these so called ethical bastions of the western world are flocking to the UAE to get a slice of the action. Cheap labour. Are they all badly run with imbeciles as managers? Are they setting the ethical tone?
Finally the debt argument. Of course! That is the proof I missed. Thank you for putting it in bold red. Of course we must ignore the fact that the Euro is collapsing under debt levels that make the UAE's look like pocket change. Likewise with the USA. (By the way what is BP currently doing to the Gulf of Mexico? Did they build a Palm?) These countries have no sovereign wealth reserves to help. We will pass you on our way up...
Stop wishing the world was the way you would like it to be and see it as it is. Stop grumbling about morals, responsibilities and corporate behaviour. Emirates is a saint compared to many American companies that thrive on the killing, maiming or poisoning of millions.
Besides I assume your own ethical dilemas dont extend beyond the moaning. After all you are all still here flying the logo.
Fly safe.
Pay has not dropped. Work has gone up.
Is it unreasonable to expect the current hours for the package? If it is, then why are so many still here and more joining. I assume they consider it a fair trade.
Is it unreasonable for a company to maximise productivity? Actually it is their duty.
Vague ideas of reduced safety margins lack statistical evidence.
Concerns on morality are simply opinions. Companies operate on legalities. If there is any breach then take it through correct channels and let them decide.
Efficiency gets better and better. The annual results show that too. Economics of scale and fine tuning of remuneration far outweigh any inefficiencies that the pilots may observe or "fallout" from morale damage
The wicked local lining his pockets is another slanted argument. Many companies from these so called ethical bastions of the western world are flocking to the UAE to get a slice of the action. Cheap labour. Are they all badly run with imbeciles as managers? Are they setting the ethical tone?
Finally the debt argument. Of course! That is the proof I missed. Thank you for putting it in bold red. Of course we must ignore the fact that the Euro is collapsing under debt levels that make the UAE's look like pocket change. Likewise with the USA. (By the way what is BP currently doing to the Gulf of Mexico? Did they build a Palm?) These countries have no sovereign wealth reserves to help. We will pass you on our way up...
Stop wishing the world was the way you would like it to be and see it as it is. Stop grumbling about morals, responsibilities and corporate behaviour. Emirates is a saint compared to many American companies that thrive on the killing, maiming or poisoning of millions.
Besides I assume your own ethical dilemas dont extend beyond the moaning. After all you are all still here flying the logo.
Fly safe.
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Yes profit share for last year was only announced in Jan 2010, so it gave the bean counters plenty of time to massage the figures even more towards the company's favour.
The bonus is mentioned in the contract, so who gives a ..... what other companies do or don't pay out to their employess. Not that the contract means much these days.
Also, does anyone know whether the "bonus" will be paid on the old salary, or the new one ( I won't even call it an increase....) Only about Dhs 1500 difference, but it will be better in my pocket than elsewhere.
The bonus is mentioned in the contract, so who gives a ..... what other companies do or don't pay out to their employess. Not that the contract means much these days.
Also, does anyone know whether the "bonus" will be paid on the old salary, or the new one ( I won't even call it an increase....) Only about Dhs 1500 difference, but it will be better in my pocket than elsewhere.
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Just what we thought!
Quote:
As most seem to forget, a company has one objective: to be profitable....
Well as far as pilots are concerned , our main goal is "To transport customers from one place to another place SAFELY, first!!!" If your main goal is to make money then you will see the results when a plane in bent due to the overworking and lack of respect for us. Maybe you, MM, and your fellow co-workers should think about this little post.
As most seem to forget, a company has one objective: to be profitable....
Well as far as pilots are concerned , our main goal is "To transport customers from one place to another place SAFELY, first!!!" If your main goal is to make money then you will see the results when a plane in bent due to the overworking and lack of respect for us. Maybe you, MM, and your fellow co-workers should think about this little post.