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Pay raise is on the portal now

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Pay raise is on the portal now

Old 7th May 2010, 16:12
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whar goes up

Why is it, that pilots tend to think they could do any aviation related job better than the ones doing it (eg ATC...)?

Did I write something about ATC? No I did not.

Looking at the background and performance of the average Manager in EK I believe indeed that most of us pilots would do a better job. However, I don't know if that would include you as well.

125'000 DHS a month for SVP,s with a community college education at best ....and pilots don't get their DEWA bill covered ?! Give me a break!!
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Old 7th May 2010, 16:46
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Did I write something about ATC? No I did not.
Buddy, I wrote pilots not you. This just another example that comes up over and over again where pilots would do a much better job. And one that I am a bit touchy with as an ex blip pusher.
125'000 DHS a month for SVP,s with a community college education at best ....and pilots don't get their DEWA bill covered ?! Give me a break!!
I am not a fan of our pathetic, ignorant, spineless and leadershipless bunch of managers. But moaning about their salary puts you on the same level. As PorkKnuckle pointed out earlier:
If you're envious of pilots, go get yourself an ATPL and seven or eight thousand hours and come back for "the good life" and moan on a pilots' website.
Put it the other way 'round. If you envy them so hard, why don't you get yourself this community college education and sit in their seat?

Off to do something more worthwhile than arguing with you....
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Old 7th May 2010, 16:53
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Ok What goes up I get your point.

Yes you are right, they will probably lower the requirements more.

However they must bear in mind that currently the failure rate is 70% for new entries. So the quality will be comprimised further by lowering the requirements.
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Old 7th May 2010, 16:55
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how do you know of that 70% failure rate?
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Old 7th May 2010, 17:03
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CheckSix
So the quality will be comprimised further by lowering the requirements.
I am 100% with you. But then again see my previous post
Quality... what quality?
Safety... Is that anything more than a cuss for them?

We need so many pilots, so let's see how low we have to set the hurdles to get them.
Been like that before and will happen again.
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Old 7th May 2010, 17:17
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Put it the other way 'round. If you envy them so hard, why don't you get yourself this community college education and sit in their seat?

Well I got way more than a community college education. And YES you are right I should become one of them as our profession has become a complete joke ...screwing pilots seems to be a very lucrative business

And one that I am a bit touchy with as an ex blip pusher.
"Blip pushers" and Engineers always had my respect and they deserve their money as we do. No argument there. However, that does not apply for pseudo managers and office clerks

But moaning about their salary puts you on the same level. As PorkKnuckle pointed out earlier:
It is crucial to highlight what our management earns. In the good old days the only person who earned more than the most Senior Captain was the President & Chief Executive. Food for thought

In EK a VP of the "Chicken and Beef department" earns more than a senior captain and that IS WRONG!!

Enough said ...out for some beers ...cheers
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Old 7th May 2010, 20:06
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The credability of some people on these forums is bordering on the rediculous. 70% failure rate? What complete and utter tosh.

If you're going to come on here and try to put forward a valid argument, get your facts right first!
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Old 7th May 2010, 20:41
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Dear Bymonek
So you have an idea or know of the actual failure rates do you?
How about posting some figures so potential recruits will
get a heads up on the possibilities or sense of joining EK!
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Old 7th May 2010, 20:48
  #49 (permalink)  
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Failure rate?

To be fair, he may be speaking of a 70% failure rate at the interview stage. As one who sees the occasional bright-faced prospectives for their interview sim session I can tell you with certainty that we are getting a large number of apes. I can't believe some of them have survived thus far; it must be down to the high quality of autopilots these days.

This is to be contrasted with the failure rate of those who are hired and then fail the initial training. I would be very surprised if this exceeds 1%, a number which is a credit to those who actually do the interviewing and hiring.
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Old 7th May 2010, 20:53
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Let me be more specific to help some of my esteemed colleagues.

70% of all new Pilots undergoing the selection process, in other words, during the recruitment phase. i.e Sim check on 1st day and all the other hurdles they have to pass before being offered employment, ARE NOT MAKING THE GRADE.

Ridiculous as it may seem to some of you? Those are the numbers. Which means if the company needs to employ 300, they have to interview 510.
(ACTUALLY AS POINTED OUT BY FJORDVIKING 1000 pilots interviewed for 300 required and not the rubbish or tosh i wrote of 510)
Ok?

Now go Check your Six

Last edited by Check 'Six'; 8th May 2010 at 00:14.
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Old 7th May 2010, 21:50
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I have heard that the failure rate is now 50% as opposed to the historical average of 40%, which might not set off alarm bells unless you consider the following.......

Our recruiting department is obviously under pressure to 'find' and then accept suitable applicants. So as a normal human being in such a position, you would be more inclined to accept someone boardering on acceptability, than say 7 years ago.

My point being, that the decline from 50% to 40% of acceptable applicants, which not not seem so bad, is not a true reflections of what is actually happening. There is no doubt in my mind that EK is accepting some applicants who in the past would have been punted out the door.

We probably won't see the results of this decline for a few years but we just went thru a period of a massive increase in UNsuccessful Capt upgrades, which coincided with the last time frame that EK was unable to attract the most desirable candidates.

Unfortunately, the next phase will occur exactly when many local pilots are elligible for upgrade too. I fear the scales have been tipped too far.
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Old 7th May 2010, 22:24
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check 'six'

I guess simple math is not your strong point. If 70% fail their interview you would need to have 1000 candidates for assessment to end up with 300.
30% of 510 is 153. Let your wife help your kids with the homework, and you can be left to use your mental math trying to do that perfect CDA into London.
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Old 7th May 2010, 22:37
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HA HA HA Thanks fjord I screwed that one up

Dropp the Pilot, thanks for that. Spot on!!

Cheers

Check Six
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Old 7th May 2010, 23:30
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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HA HA HA HA No fatigue this month brother, just plain el stupido!!!!

I will change my call sign from Check 'Six'. to El Professor no?
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Old 8th May 2010, 06:14
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Increasing the inducement to fly beyond the insane target of 92 hours hard time and creating incentive to work on days off is endangering the airline.

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Old 8th May 2010, 09:14
  #56 (permalink)  
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Clarification of facts please

...can anyone please point out to me where the contract actually states the 3% increment, I know its there but cant find it.... like all useful facts has it 'migrated'

I have found the Profit share which is black and white ( as far as anything can be)....

If the contract is once again simply disregarded (ie there are no get out clauses).. is it not about time a legal action was brought for breach by all those it concerns. I know the rule is through bullying here but in this day and age surely an online association could be formed and an action brought through its collective name. I also hear that they would rather fire us all than concede... well if that is true then why have a contract at all ?

Pilots are better than groundstaff stuff ??... it really is much simpler than that. Its an airline. Airlines fly planes and therefore you need pilots. No pilots= no planes= no ground jobs= no airline...not better than or worse than simply chicken and egg...

When we accepted the job here we all took the contract carefully into consideration. This has now been ignored and changed without any regard for the employee so many times over the last year, that it can no longer be considered an agreement... by either side... this destroys the trust that is required and without trust the airline is finished. Everyone has there breaking point and all must decide their own personal limit.

below is one of the continued adverts for EK

''cosmopolitan cities in the Middle East, well known for its wealth of fantastic shopping, sporting opportunities and a wonderful social life. Our attractive remuneration package includes a tax free salary of UAE Dhs 16040 with annual increments, fully furnished accommodation (including utilities),
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Old 8th May 2010, 10:26
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can anyone please point out to me where the contract actually states the 3% increment, I know its there but cant find it
That would be because it ISN'T in the contract.

Full payment of utilities IS however!
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Old 8th May 2010, 10:37
  #58 (permalink)  
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ok thanks for clarifying that...
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Old 8th May 2010, 12:30
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So is, obting out of accommodations and getting an allowance. Does not specify if you buy or rent. Any move out, should get you the allowance. Changed to only buy.....
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Old 8th May 2010, 12:44
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Devil

Increment was in contract , and mine (long time ago) came with a 10 year table of increments with salary total. Probably long since amended out ?There is something there that says they can vary the terms with a notification without amending contract . Then becomes a totally one way contract , dont know how they can hold you to it when they want to , but in the present climate i guess its their trainset ! Only option left is take it or leave it , but feel sorry for those that had options and left acceptable jobs (in hindsight) and are now stuck. Keep discovering !!!
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