Goodbye Dubai
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I agree with the locals
I do 100% agree with he locals.
A lot of expats are running business in the UAE some of them are state holdings.
If these expats do not perform as required they should be removed.
This does not happen.
Not wanting to loose face is a big problem and the root of problems with integration.
We all know its not always difficult to admit to a mistake. Certain cultures have it easier that others.
A lot of expats are running business in the UAE some of them are state holdings.
If these expats do not perform as required they should be removed.
This does not happen.
Not wanting to loose face is a big problem and the root of problems with integration.
We all know its not always difficult to admit to a mistake. Certain cultures have it easier that others.
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So is now a good time to move out to the UAE with a falling housing market and plenty of 4 x 4's soon to be readily available at auction. Not wanting to take advantage of others miss fortune, but the offers there.
Or is there much worse to come, should we steer well clear!!!
Or is there much worse to come, should we steer well clear!!!
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Maybe just a teensy bit o.t.t. with your outrage, Roy? The guy was just trying to say no culture doesn't have some sort of dirty washing in its past it would prefer not to be aired today.
For those who think this crash came as a bolt out of the blue, could I suggest they take a look at an old Pprune thread from 2006? http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/23...ty-prices.html Some, (including moi), thought it was going to happen considerably sooner than it did.
Check out my post #9 from 11 July 2006. For those not inclined to look, I said then:
For those who think this crash came as a bolt out of the blue, could I suggest they take a look at an old Pprune thread from 2006? http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/23...ty-prices.html Some, (including moi), thought it was going to happen considerably sooner than it did.
Check out my post #9 from 11 July 2006. For those not inclined to look, I said then:
A mate in banking in the Sandpit told me about 6 weeks ago that the smart money boys in Abu Dhabi are standing by in the wings waiting for "the correction", which they expect to be quite large, when they plan to swoop and "buy Dubai" (his term, not mine).
If he turns out to be right, it would seem that quite a few people will be left with 2 million Dirham mortgages on properties that won't, (in the short term anyway), be worth anywhere near that amount.
Shades of London in the early 90's.
If he turns out to be right, it would seem that quite a few people will be left with 2 million Dirham mortgages on properties that won't, (in the short term anyway), be worth anywhere near that amount.
Shades of London in the early 90's.
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A mate in banking in the Sandpit told me about 6 weeks ago that the smart money boys in Abu Dhabi are standing by in the wings waiting for "the correction", which they expect to be quite large, when they plan to swoop and "buy Dubai" (his term, not mine).
If he turns out to be right, it would seem that quite a few people will be left with 2 million Dirham mortgages on properties that won't, (in the short term anyway), be worth anywhere near that amount.
Shades of London in the early 90's.
If he turns out to be right, it would seem that quite a few people will be left with 2 million Dirham mortgages on properties that won't, (in the short term anyway), be worth anywhere near that amount.
Shades of London in the early 90's.
Snap!!
Check out my post. # 80 on this thread
S.F.L.Y
You aren't doing yourself any favours at all. Silly Boy. Nuff said.
Anyone who knows
Cyclone is no more? Tell me it isn't true
CS
wots glad to have been there and actually experienced the reality of the 'Dubai Dream' but who is infinitely gladder to have been able to bug out back to this Green and Pleasant Land. Unlike the poor sods 'employed' to build that 'dream' on foundations of sand.
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Gulf Daily News » Business News » ABU DHABI'S 'BACKING TO REMAIN SELECTIVE'
there is the official stance of AUH
there is the official stance of AUH
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Shiek Mo said in the paper its all the western banks fault for investing here as I never guarenteed anything from the government.
Few years ago my wife was offered a pension plan with two options: the first a 6% and the second at 12% which of course was more "risky". For F*** sake why the hell people were stupid enough to take risks on their pension?!!? If you decide to go for a pension plan it's probably because you'll need it later, how could people gamble it for insane promises? If you want to secure more money then work more instead of gambling on other people's labor. Some people were commenting on the Dubai slavery, they just forgot to mention this was the masterpiece of thousands of expat's investments in Dubai. Same for the pension plans, where do you think these 12% would be coming from? At some point someone has to produce some labor in order to leverage these 12%. Isn't it slavery?
You want Sheikh Mo' to pay for the mess? Then give the good example and bring back Madoff's $50 billions.
It's not just a matter of few bankers, all the banks in Dubai were giving credit cards to anyone without any guarantee. I've seen some guys barely earning 4000AED holding over 10 different credit cards! Is it Sheikh Mo's responsibility to cover this mess?
As expats we were the first to mess up the place, everyone wanting to invest in some apartments to cash in some quick profits while most couldn't technically afford it, again supported by foreign banks. Because of being such idiots rents have been raising like hell while occupancy decreased! It should be the contrary!
Anyway as somebody already said, these arrogant foreign banks always counted on the Abu Dhabi's backup to cover the money they were throwing at Dubai and I really hope this will not come up too quick as they might learn a good lesson.
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Ofcourse banks don't just gamble, they take calculated risks. If no agreement is reached with the banks, assets will be sold due to bankrupcy. This will be interesting because the whole legal system reg. the ME financial world will be tested. What contracts were signed, which courts will be used. If the legal challenges will provide unexpected, unlogical answers, life in the ME will become interesting.
So far the disaster I expected/predicted didn't happen, curious to see what the future will bring.
So far the disaster I expected/predicted didn't happen, curious to see what the future will bring.
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SFLY, I don't think banks, foreign and local would splash out cash to Dubai entities with out a little homework of their own. If their homework concluded that the government was behind these companies when in fact it wasn't, then the waters surrounding 'Dubai Inc' must be very muddied. Ultimately it is the Government which establishes legislation to provide transparency and clear water to give confidence to financial markets. If that legislation has failed then they have to carry some of the responsibility. In Democratic countries this would cost a Government its rule. Sh. Mo is the Government, where else do you want the buck to stop? It is well known that Mo has (had) his hands well and truly on the levers of Nakheel, Limitless etc. The audacious plans don't go anywhere without a rubber stamp from his dream works. The Government let these developers run too hard for too long with apparently little over site and the consequences are for them to accept.
You can't laud praise on an individual for achieving rapid growth in Dubai and then look for someone else to blame when the wheels fall off. If the Government (Mo) is not financially obligated to these companies then they should not be effected by their demise. But did any one see a single firework for national day or the ten year anniversary of the Burj Al Arab? Indeed the Financial Times today observed that regulars at the Tattersalls thoroughbred sales held yesterday could not remember a time when Sh Mo was not there buying everything in sight. Except yesterday...
You can't laud praise on an individual for achieving rapid growth in Dubai and then look for someone else to blame when the wheels fall off. If the Government (Mo) is not financially obligated to these companies then they should not be effected by their demise. But did any one see a single firework for national day or the ten year anniversary of the Burj Al Arab? Indeed the Financial Times today observed that regulars at the Tattersalls thoroughbred sales held yesterday could not remember a time when Sh Mo was not there buying everything in sight. Except yesterday...
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Ofcourse banks don't just gamble, they take calculated risks
Hear hear......
I don't think banks, foreign and local would splash out cash to Dubai entities with out a little homework of their own.
To shout out, we need a delay in repayment, in this money sensitive time is clever. With the whole world as a hostage, they can blame later AUH . Thats why AUH has to and will pay. Has something to do with this can't lose my face BS.
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did any one see a single firework for national day or the ten year anniversary of the Burj Al Arab?
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The prospectus for Nakheels bond issues specifically stated that they were not guaranteed by the government - so surely the 'responsibility' is on those who invested on those terms?
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did any one see a single firework for national day or the ten year anniversary of the Burj Al Arab?
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SFLY, I don't think banks, foreign and local would splash out cash to Dubai entities with out a little homework of their own. If their homework concluded that the government was behind these companies when in fact it wasn't, then the waters surrounding 'Dubai Inc' must be very muddied.
And we all know how successful that strategy was
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The prospectus for Nakheels bond issues specifically stated that they were not guaranteed by the government - so surely the 'responsibility' is on those who invested on those terms?
It was a question SFLY which you answered for me in a rather odd way. I'm beginning to see why you struggle to gather support here. Thanks for the feed back all the same.
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Despite the Media and Finance houses now conceding that Dubai's problems are a "blip", and not the start of another recession (see Bloomberg and CNN), the proof will be in 6 months, when this deferred debt becomes due.
Dubai is borrowing, to pay for borrowing. Or is it selling to pay for borrowing?
In May next year, if the debt cannot be paid,(and I'm not saying it won't be), the real situation will become apparent.
Dubai is borrowing, to pay for borrowing. Or is it selling to pay for borrowing?
In May next year, if the debt cannot be paid,(and I'm not saying it won't be), the real situation will become apparent.
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the proof will be in 6 months, when this deferred debt becomes due.
Bondholders will this week write to Dubai World demanding repayment by December 29 at the latest of a $4 billion tranche of debt due for repayment next week. If that does not happen, they will take legal action in New York and London to get their money back. Last night, one of the investors said: “We’re not afraid to push the nuclear button.”
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Apart from it not being sovereign debt, the prospectus also warned that Nakheel, “is not required to, does not, and has no current intention in the future” to publish any financial accounts or statements under UAE law. The company was “a newly formed entity and [had] no operating history.”
Investors were also told that the strategy of the company is premised on the idea that property prices will keep going up.
Actually when you read what was in the prospectus it's a surprise anyone invested in it at all.
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Is it any wonder prices kept rising when artificial demand was ever present at Nakheel.
Last week a close friend of mine (local) let slip that one of Nakheels sales staff, who happened to be a girlfriend of one of the directors, had been asked to pay back over 700 million dirhams in ill gotten gains. Let me repeat that figure. SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION.
This was 'aquired' using friends as bogus buyers who would reserve prime plots before being released to the public. These would then be offered at a premium to prospective clients who were desperate to buy. She and her friends would pocket up to 10 million a pop for selling something that they hadn't legally bought in the first place. This took place over a 3-4 year period and she was not the only one guilty of such behaviour.
When her and many like her can do things such as this, yes, The government must take responsibility. Responsibility for not having rules and regulations that prohibit practices like this. Not only that, but laws that would send this person to jail, not simply ask for it to be repaid. Being a local though, I guess sums up what's so wrong with this sodden place.
Harry
Last week a close friend of mine (local) let slip that one of Nakheels sales staff, who happened to be a girlfriend of one of the directors, had been asked to pay back over 700 million dirhams in ill gotten gains. Let me repeat that figure. SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION.
This was 'aquired' using friends as bogus buyers who would reserve prime plots before being released to the public. These would then be offered at a premium to prospective clients who were desperate to buy. She and her friends would pocket up to 10 million a pop for selling something that they hadn't legally bought in the first place. This took place over a 3-4 year period and she was not the only one guilty of such behaviour.
When her and many like her can do things such as this, yes, The government must take responsibility. Responsibility for not having rules and regulations that prohibit practices like this. Not only that, but laws that would send this person to jail, not simply ask for it to be repaid. Being a local though, I guess sums up what's so wrong with this sodden place.
Harry