MPL Alpha Aviation UAE - CAUTION!
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@ SilveR5
Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your worries & view on the MPL 
, you made me go through alots of things online after your last post, I want to share the info in those links, they really cleared alots of things about the MPL & how it works, and got some questions to be answered by the Flight Academy!...take a look:
ICAO | FLS | FAQs
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/jr/2007/6203_en.pdf , go to page 15/16, 31 & 33
Maybe this one is a little Old... http://mail.beca.be/tulip/position/I...ment%20MPL.pdf
I didn't want to sound negative in my last post(s), but I truely believe that MPL is defferent & still...didn't take its right in the Aviation industry...hope things go on well...
, you made me go through alots of things online after your last post, I want to share the info in those links, they really cleared alots of things about the MPL & how it works, and got some questions to be answered by the Flight Academy!...take a look:ICAO | FLS | FAQs
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/jr/2007/6203_en.pdf , go to page 15/16, 31 & 33
Maybe this one is a little Old... http://mail.beca.be/tulip/position/I...ment%20MPL.pdf
I didn't want to sound negative in my last post(s), but I truely believe that MPL is defferent & still...didn't take its right in the Aviation industry...hope things go on well...
Last edited by malirm; 25th Apr 2009 at 23:01.
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Malrim, you beat me to it!
Silver could you provide regulatory reference that supports you statement about employment with a different airline after MPL and IOE.
I found this, which is from CARS and is the same iin JAA FCL, EASA 17B and ICAO PANS TRG.
Approval for a MPL(A) training course shall only be given to a FTO of a CAR-OPS 1 operator or a FTO having a specific approved arrangement with a CAR-OPS 1 operator. The licence shall be restricted to that specified operator until completion of the airline operator’s conversion course in accordance with CAR-OPS 1 Subpart N.
As I read it, Alpha(UAE) are offering 40 Sectors, which is the Operators Conversion Course, on completion the MPL holder can then legally move to another Operator should they want or need to!
Silver could you provide regulatory reference that supports you statement about employment with a different airline after MPL and IOE.
I found this, which is from CARS and is the same iin JAA FCL, EASA 17B and ICAO PANS TRG.
Approval for a MPL(A) training course shall only be given to a FTO of a CAR-OPS 1 operator or a FTO having a specific approved arrangement with a CAR-OPS 1 operator. The licence shall be restricted to that specified operator until completion of the airline operator’s conversion course in accordance with CAR-OPS 1 Subpart N.
As I read it, Alpha(UAE) are offering 40 Sectors, which is the Operators Conversion Course, on completion the MPL holder can then legally move to another Operator should they want or need to!
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Gilderoy,
Makes sense! MPL does not have the 40 sector requirement. All it needs is the ‘12 takeoffs and landings’ completion. 40 sectors IS to complete the operator’s conversion course which I believe is being offered by Alpha only.
Makes sense! MPL does not have the 40 sector requirement. All it needs is the ‘12 takeoffs and landings’ completion. 40 sectors IS to complete the operator’s conversion course which I believe is being offered by Alpha only.
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it is called the Multi-Crew Pilots License as I will be trained from day one to fly in an airline environment with my Captain
Passengers are paying their ticket to be flown by professional pilots, not to pay for student pilots' flying lessons. I'm not sure so many people would agree to make concessions on that side. Remember the LH incident with the 250h cadet... that was a very close call. I understand it is exciting for young people to immediately start flying a shiny airbus, that doesn't mean it is the best way...
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@ SFLY
I really do understand your point of view, where you are saying, Low Houred Cadets must not fly a Commercial Jet...they are not safe...But, bythway ----> Safety is the main reason that the ICAO had made the MPL, so I am pretty sure that such accidents wouldn't occur with a MPL guy...as you will be made aware of such errors while training...
I just had a heavy lunch here...I barely can speak or type...I'm out now
I just had a heavy lunch here...I barely can speak or type...I'm out now
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Safety is the main reason that the ICAO had made the MPL, so I am pretty sure that such accidents wouldn't occur with a MPL guy...
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SFLY
I take it that you objection is against any low hour ab-initio pilot going straight to the RH seat of an airliner, be it someone with a CPL/IR and a Type Rating or an MPL Licence, they both have similar hours when they start with the airline in either a Simulator or training aircraft!
What is the minimum experience that you think is acceptable and how should someone in the Middle East or Europe for that matter, gain that experience?
Don't inexperienced pilots fly with Training Captains/Very experienced Captains who are able to cope with the demands of inexperience in the RH Seat!
I take it that you objection is against any low hour ab-initio pilot going straight to the RH seat of an airliner, be it someone with a CPL/IR and a Type Rating or an MPL Licence, they both have similar hours when they start with the airline in either a Simulator or training aircraft!
What is the minimum experience that you think is acceptable and how should someone in the Middle East or Europe for that matter, gain that experience?
Don't inexperienced pilots fly with Training Captains/Very experienced Captains who are able to cope with the demands of inexperience in the RH Seat!
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Ayla, why do you think airlines are now looking into cadets, MPL and other ab initio programs when experienced pilots are available? Do you seriously think this is for operational reasons? Please don't take the existence of such programs as a good justification, it's purely a matter of cost reduction and "control" over younger inexperienced pilots.
For decades airline pilots had to go through different stages in order to acquire experience before reaching the right seat of an airliner. This can be instruction, aerial work, then corporate turboprops and jets before finally having an substantial background. I personally think it is quite useful to have experienced things like night NDB procedures on uncontrolled airfields with low visibility and icing conditions and it's not time to discover these things when you have 100 paxs behind you. The A320 might be a good machine but certainly not for instruction purposes. You need to "feel" lots of things to get a better experience which you cannot easyly achieve in a 320. Do you think cadets flying DA42 over a flat and sunny country would have the same skills than experienced pilots when it comes to land a 330 on a slipery RWY during a storm? Look at this poor LH cadet with 250h who almost crashed her 320... she is not to be blamed at all while she was probably given an unrealistic goal when it comes to fly with such bad weather.
I have nothing against wannabees, on the contrary, but simply think about the reasons why such programs are now available... to me it is absolutely not for the sake of flight safety or the wannabees themselves but only airlines accountants.
For decades airline pilots had to go through different stages in order to acquire experience before reaching the right seat of an airliner. This can be instruction, aerial work, then corporate turboprops and jets before finally having an substantial background. I personally think it is quite useful to have experienced things like night NDB procedures on uncontrolled airfields with low visibility and icing conditions and it's not time to discover these things when you have 100 paxs behind you. The A320 might be a good machine but certainly not for instruction purposes. You need to "feel" lots of things to get a better experience which you cannot easyly achieve in a 320. Do you think cadets flying DA42 over a flat and sunny country would have the same skills than experienced pilots when it comes to land a 330 on a slipery RWY during a storm? Look at this poor LH cadet with 250h who almost crashed her 320... she is not to be blamed at all while she was probably given an unrealistic goal when it comes to fly with such bad weather.
I have nothing against wannabees, on the contrary, but simply think about the reasons why such programs are now available... to me it is absolutely not for the sake of flight safety or the wannabees themselves but only airlines accountants.
Last edited by S.F.L.Y; 26th Apr 2009 at 17:06.
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@ SFLY
Thanks for the last post, I will try my best to be the best example of a MPL holder, where I am looking forward to change your view rather than speaking about showing you that SFLY is wrong or even maybe right .
or even maybe right .
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hey guys
last read this thread a couple weeks ago. didn't realize it's been action packed! but i have to admit this is really a good respectful debate, much unlike the other threads in pprune i have been involved in. so kudos to you guys! 
malirm,
sad truth is some MPL guys already think they are better than CPL/ fATPL graduates. Saying the MPL is better than fATPL, i think is at best an honest intellectual opinion at this point (i am of the same hopeful view too!), but that is all. there is no evidence to buttress this and there won't be until we get the first few MPL pioneers to perform in IOE, and then released to the Line. that is why i am so much interested in Clark's cadets and how they perform in 5J. until that point let's advise the other MPL guys to be humble, and be much like your own position: study hard, perform well. the burden is actually not on the critics to prove MPL wrong. only actual good performance can prove MPL is right, like the way we theorize it will be.
SFLY,
the poor pilot you mentioned is not an MPL cadet so there is no point in using her experience in commenting on the skills of low hour MPL graduates in the future. it simply does not follow that since both this girl and the MPL cadets have low hours, then they will perform in similar fashion. Training is what will differentiate them, as training is what differentiated guys with similar number of hours logged but different Type ratings. Training is the necessary intervention that will ensure the skills requirement will be met.
So I believe this is what we should try and study: whether the training given by AAA UAE is enough to make sure the low hour MPL cadets perform admirably. Unless of course you take the position that it is impossible to improve the skills of low hour pilots to the level required no matter how many hours of training is done. i hope not, but if you do, hey i can live with that, as long as you're not my instructor, and not my Aviation Authority
hahaha
i have nothing to add to the discussion until i do my own research first regarding some of the interesting issues raised here. until then...happy flying to all!
malirm,
sad truth is some MPL guys already think they are better than CPL/ fATPL graduates. Saying the MPL is better than fATPL, i think is at best an honest intellectual opinion at this point (i am of the same hopeful view too!), but that is all. there is no evidence to buttress this and there won't be until we get the first few MPL pioneers to perform in IOE, and then released to the Line. that is why i am so much interested in Clark's cadets and how they perform in 5J. until that point let's advise the other MPL guys to be humble, and be much like your own position: study hard, perform well. the burden is actually not on the critics to prove MPL wrong. only actual good performance can prove MPL is right, like the way we theorize it will be.
SFLY,
the poor pilot you mentioned is not an MPL cadet so there is no point in using her experience in commenting on the skills of low hour MPL graduates in the future. it simply does not follow that since both this girl and the MPL cadets have low hours, then they will perform in similar fashion. Training is what will differentiate them, as training is what differentiated guys with similar number of hours logged but different Type ratings. Training is the necessary intervention that will ensure the skills requirement will be met.
So I believe this is what we should try and study: whether the training given by AAA UAE is enough to make sure the low hour MPL cadets perform admirably. Unless of course you take the position that it is impossible to improve the skills of low hour pilots to the level required no matter how many hours of training is done. i hope not, but if you do, hey i can live with that, as long as you're not my instructor, and not my Aviation Authority
hahahai have nothing to add to the discussion until i do my own research first regarding some of the interesting issues raised here. until then...happy flying to all!
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Good Luck !
If ONLY all the hopeful trainees here knew what they were getting themselves into.....
............with any of the training organizations.With the GCAA being so naive and eager to promote something neither they or anybody else understands fully, is a risk by itself.
Then to add to the problems within the system such as.......
* Lack of airspace i.e training areas.
* Inabilty (actually an unwillingness) to provide an adequate service by some ATC units, due to the lack of airspace. (All one has to do is glance at the AIP to see all the restrictions)
* Lack of airports to fly to i.e Hasn't Abu Dhabi Intl prohibited all training, UNLESS you are an operator at THAT airport.
* Al Ain Intl is out of the question during weekday daylight hours due to all the military training going on.
* Training being prohibited in the MAIN CTA
* Green individuals in the system.
* However the above can be tackled with the usual bogus "UNDERSTANDINGS" which are a mere form of corrupt WASTA.
...........BUT for how long?Regardless whether an individual has enrolled in ANY training organization for ANY course.....................Best Of Luck !
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I've been reading the thread for a while. I've got to say that many of the critics against MPL training are pretty true. Looking at the recruitment profiles of middle east operators, this becomes significantly correct versus other regions in the world. I have spoken to guys at GF Training and others in recruitment to find out fact from fiction.
SilveR5, you were right about these I suppose according to the feedback I've got!
ICAO regulations in the matter look very fine, but practically it doesn't really happen this way. For example, few months back GF has clearly refrained from approving plenty of cadets requests to sponsor their MPL training somewhere in Australia maybe. GF has its own strategy for MPL in the future and they won't send the cadets to a place they don't recognize. In fact, GF won't need MPL cadets from anywhere except from those the company will be sponsoring with a partner FTO. I think this will be the case with other employers in the region. I would say this is the living example for MPL recruitment issues in the mean time and for the near future.
- Didn't those pilots tell you that, if these airlines will ever decide to adopt MPL, each airline has its own scheme and standards for MPL training? Didn't they tell you that your MPL with Air Arabia WILL NOT allow you to work in Etihad or Gulf Air or any other airline unless you do another MPL/fATPL that matches your target airline (because there is no MPL conversion up till now)?
- Didn't they tell you that they will never stop hiring type-rated ATPL pilots, even if their own MPL cadets are ready to fly right here right now??!
- So until their "thinking and researching" is done, going for MPL on your own at this stage means you understand and accept being a tryout cadet!! Believe it or not... They will be happy to know that you want to be so.
& by the way...it's so misleading if you count on pilots and instructors to get you trusted info about such an important matter in big airline companies. This is all about another level of decision makers my friend..!
- Didn't they tell you that they will never stop hiring type-rated ATPL pilots, even if their own MPL cadets are ready to fly right here right now??!
- So until their "thinking and researching" is done, going for MPL on your own at this stage means you understand and accept being a tryout cadet!! Believe it or not... They will be happy to know that you want to be so.
& by the way...it's so misleading if you count on pilots and instructors to get you trusted info about such an important matter in big airline companies. This is all about another level of decision makers my friend..!
ICAO regulations in the matter look very fine, but practically it doesn't really happen this way. For example, few months back GF has clearly refrained from approving plenty of cadets requests to sponsor their MPL training somewhere in Australia maybe. GF has its own strategy for MPL in the future and they won't send the cadets to a place they don't recognize. In fact, GF won't need MPL cadets from anywhere except from those the company will be sponsoring with a partner FTO. I think this will be the case with other employers in the region. I would say this is the living example for MPL recruitment issues in the mean time and for the near future.
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Is better to graduate MPL or CPL from Europe in U.A.E there is much Nationalism & waste of money if u r complete pilot 1st chance will be given to national his salary will be also double if u completed ur graduation of pilot from Europe then it’s very easy to find job in any part of Middle east or anywhere in uae u have 2 pay double but the best education more good then Alpha or Emirates will be given there in low cost in any good Aviation College.
me to wanna be pilot but when i search & took information these all information i found The Best Pilot r made in STATes in uae is only 1 climate
if u know anyother good pilot Acdamey plzzz inform
me to wanna be pilot but when i search & took information these all information i found The Best Pilot r made in STATes in uae is only 1 climate
if u know anyother good pilot Acdamey plzzz inform
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Oxford Aviation Academy receives MPL approval - Flight Training News
May 05, 2009 at 11:25 PM
Flybe to open UK's first MPL recruitment drive - Flight Training News
Mar 01, 2009 at 02:00 AM
These are not my own opinions, are they?!
Cheers
May 05, 2009 at 11:25 PM
OAA also say that their MPL course provides applicants with a money-back guarantee in the event of training failure anywhere in the course, which is mirrored in OAA’s other flight training courses. Additionally, OAA is offering the further guarantee of a fully-funded reversion to standard integrated ATPL training in the event the MPL programme stalls for any other reason. MPL students will also benefit from a joint sponsorship scheme under which Flybe and OAA will both provide up to £20,000 in funding support to those selected for the MPL course.
Flybe to open UK's first MPL recruitment drive - Flight Training News
Mar 01, 2009 at 02:00 AM
Additionally, in the highly unlikely event that there is any major interruption to the MPL course, Flybe and FTE have said that they will undertake reversion to the standard CPL/IR program at no additional cost to the students. This means that if circumstances arise that prevent Flybe from employing the cadets, their retraining will be generic rather than type and airline specific, affording them the chance to apply to other airlines. It is believed that this guarantee has been put in place in reaction to the unfortunate situation arising from the demise of Danish carrier Sterling Airlines last year, which left Europe’s first MPL rated pilots without jobs and stuck for alternative employment, given their training had been geared towards Sterling’s standard operating procedures (SOPs).
Cheers
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Hi all
I need your help guys!
My enquiry goes out to those who have went through Alpha's assessment.
I looking for all possible details about Alpha's assessment and aptitude tests. What are the details of these tests? what about math and physics tests? What is it that I should worry about the most in the procedure?
Your input and guidance are highly appreciated.
Thanks
I need your help guys!
My enquiry goes out to those who have went through Alpha's assessment.
I looking for all possible details about Alpha's assessment and aptitude tests. What are the details of these tests? what about math and physics tests? What is it that I should worry about the most in the procedure?
Your input and guidance are highly appreciated.
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Flight Instructors
I am thinking of working at AAA as a PPL Flight Instructor. Can any one tell me about the present situation of the Academy? Are they growing fast? Is the building ready yet? Where is the exact location of the building ? Are they building any housing units for students and instructors? How many instructors are they planning to hire? How many aircrafts are they buying initially? Will they help there flight instructor's with a job on an A320 after a certain term of contract? How many students are currently in the Ground School?What salary will they offer to instructors?
I don't want to resign my present job and start working in a place which closes down like DAEFA in a few months.
I don't want to resign my present job and start working in a place which closes down like DAEFA in a few months.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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@ .air
I am a current student at AAA & everything is going on perfect at the moment, I know that AAA had a very wise & good lesson about what happened with DAEFA + other flight schools in the regoin + Clark Aviation & is managed by very experienced staff of the GCAA, Air Arabia, X-military...etc., where some of the instructors are A320 Type Rated & others were typerated on another aircrafts before they left their airlines for training student pilots, I can't say that if AAA might get you a place on the A320 while working as an instructor with them, but there is a possibility as you are so close!
There are currently 12 to 14 Students divided in 2 batches & about 2 applications a day...we always have to keep quiet in the corredors because exams/assessments are being conducted (Psychometric/Psychomotor)...
As for the accommodation & the new building, so far the new building is under construction, AAA is just beside Lufthansa Cargo office (nowadays) & I heard that they are going to shift to a nicely furnished Hangar as the Cessnas arrive in the last quarter of 2009.
I think I read PPL Instructor...can you get a CPL instructor..., looking forward to training me, Good Luck
There are currently 12 to 14 Students divided in 2 batches & about 2 applications a day...we always have to keep quiet in the corredors because exams/assessments are being conducted (Psychometric/Psychomotor)...
As for the accommodation & the new building, so far the new building is under construction, AAA is just beside Lufthansa Cargo office (nowadays) & I heard that they are going to shift to a nicely furnished Hangar as the Cessnas arrive in the last quarter of 2009.
I think I read PPL Instructor...can you get a CPL instructor...
, looking forward to training me, Good Luck
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I've just looked through the AAA website. The whole setup makes no sense to me to be honest.
Apart from the financial investment of Air Arabia into 'experimental' project, how are they involved operationally?
Apart from the financial investment of Air Arabia into 'experimental' project, how are they involved operationally?