Qatar Airways losing instructors
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Snam,
Indeed the 737 or 767 transition is cheaper than a full transition course, but also the 320/330 or 340 CCQ is cheaper than hiring a 737 DEC to the 330 !
Also it would be cheaper if IM and BW served on the 320 as they were current on the 320 (fleet that is short of instructors) it would be cheaper and more productive for QA if they served on the 320 for a while before they get their CCQ 330 as soon as they joined.
Of course I don't mind if they did that, what I really mind is the use of the "cheaper" excuse just to hold a group of people flying a hard roster for a long period of time while others just jump to the safe haven of the nice destinations and better life style.
Indeed the 737 or 767 transition is cheaper than a full transition course, but also the 320/330 or 340 CCQ is cheaper than hiring a 737 DEC to the 330 !
Also it would be cheaper if IM and BW served on the 320 as they were current on the 320 (fleet that is short of instructors) it would be cheaper and more productive for QA if they served on the 320 for a while before they get their CCQ 330 as soon as they joined.
Of course I don't mind if they did that, what I really mind is the use of the "cheaper" excuse just to hold a group of people flying a hard roster for a long period of time while others just jump to the safe haven of the nice destinations and better life style.
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And dont forget following aspects as well:
Financially: A DEC A330/777 makes about 5000QR/month more compared to aCapt A320 with 2 years seniority
Management back up: A330 is protected by S.S.S, who actually understands English and will help his pilots whenever he can ( Same goes for H.M.). The A320 on the other hand is a whole different story!
Lifestyle: Inexistant on A320
So why do A320 pilots have to be stuck in that mudhole for three years, if not more, while others get litterally all the benefits?
Something else came up recently: they are thinking again about Right to left seat upgrades on A330 and B777....this means they want to isolate all the seperate fleets in order to limit the number of fleet transfers!
So guys on A320 will be stuck FOREVER!
The dreamteam is killing this company slowly but surely!
And in the meanwhile companies like EY are steaming ahead strongly...EY announced 2 million pax for the summer season, QR loadfactors are down by 26% compared to last year!
Pilots go there continously and what does our management do?
They block the EY-QR interline agreement! Great move! That is going to solve the problem boys!
Rumour has it that now GF is getting better, we will loose GF agreements as well....
STUPIDITY RULES!
Financially: A DEC A330/777 makes about 5000QR/month more compared to aCapt A320 with 2 years seniority
Management back up: A330 is protected by S.S.S, who actually understands English and will help his pilots whenever he can ( Same goes for H.M.). The A320 on the other hand is a whole different story!
Lifestyle: Inexistant on A320
So why do A320 pilots have to be stuck in that mudhole for three years, if not more, while others get litterally all the benefits?
Something else came up recently: they are thinking again about Right to left seat upgrades on A330 and B777....this means they want to isolate all the seperate fleets in order to limit the number of fleet transfers!
So guys on A320 will be stuck FOREVER!
The dreamteam is killing this company slowly but surely!
And in the meanwhile companies like EY are steaming ahead strongly...EY announced 2 million pax for the summer season, QR loadfactors are down by 26% compared to last year!
Pilots go there continously and what does our management do?
They block the EY-QR interline agreement! Great move! That is going to solve the problem boys!
Rumour has it that now GF is getting better, we will loose GF agreements as well....
STUPIDITY RULES!
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Clostermann is absolutely correct, as you said "The Dream Team" is killing QA slowly, I am afraid that we will suffer in the next few months and years to come (for those who are staying).
In the past I heard this: we don't care about quality pilots resigning, we will hire anyone to be a pilots and the company will never be short of pilots
well…maybe that is why we are seducing the new joiners by training them directly on the wide body….but this is a short sighted plan, because sooner or later they will leave you for another airline while 320 fleet pilots will be flying somewhere else.
If conditions don't improve for that type you will not find pilots to join on the 320 fleet (and stay).
Recommendation:
Let the flow go from the 320 to the bigger types.
Benefits:
1-Pilots will stay longer in the company knowing they will be transferred.
2-QA will reduce the risk of hiring the "Type Rating Hunters" who just join to get qualified on someone else's expense before they jump ship.
3- Wide body/Long range pilots will be company oriented and loyal after serving few years on a smaller type.
I think that will be much better policy than cancelling the interline agreement on Etihad !
In the past I heard this: we don't care about quality pilots resigning, we will hire anyone to be a pilots and the company will never be short of pilots
well…maybe that is why we are seducing the new joiners by training them directly on the wide body….but this is a short sighted plan, because sooner or later they will leave you for another airline while 320 fleet pilots will be flying somewhere else.
If conditions don't improve for that type you will not find pilots to join on the 320 fleet (and stay).
Recommendation:
Let the flow go from the 320 to the bigger types.
Benefits:
1-Pilots will stay longer in the company knowing they will be transferred.
2-QA will reduce the risk of hiring the "Type Rating Hunters" who just join to get qualified on someone else's expense before they jump ship.
3- Wide body/Long range pilots will be company oriented and loyal after serving few years on a smaller type.
I think that will be much better policy than cancelling the interline agreement on Etihad !
Last edited by A320 Man; 21st Oct 2008 at 09:12.
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No way guys!!! QA cancelled the ID 90 agreement with Etihad over the migration of QA pilots to EY?
I was trying to book a ZED ticked from DOH on EY, the name Etihad was removed from the choice of airlines, but I thought it might be system glitch or so till I read this information on Clostermann's comment.
If QA management is thinking this way….we should be worried.
Did they ask at any moment why pilots leave? What can we do to stop it? And furthermore why NO pilots from EY resign to join QA?
This situation reminds me of a joke I heard long time ago:
a man who wanted to tease his wife and deny her any pleasure, he decided to cut his own pines!!
a man who wanted to tease his wife and deny her any pleasure, he decided to cut his own pines!!
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If you ask QR HR about this, they will tell you it was EY which cancelled the agreement ....YEAH RIGHT!
If you ask further, they will dig up a story whereby there is an issue in paying the costs between QR and EY so QR revenue dept cancelled the deal!
But if you go to the source, both EY and QR will confirm it has to do with the continous stream of employees going to EY!
I called a friend of mine in EY mngmnt, he confirmed the story with as a side note the fact that QR, once more, is making a total fool of itself by doing this!
STUPIDITY RULES FOR SURE!
If you ask further, they will dig up a story whereby there is an issue in paying the costs between QR and EY so QR revenue dept cancelled the deal!
But if you go to the source, both EY and QR will confirm it has to do with the continous stream of employees going to EY!
I called a friend of mine in EY mngmnt, he confirmed the story with as a side note the fact that QR, once more, is making a total fool of itself by doing this!
STUPIDITY RULES FOR SURE!
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widebody300er, I met you on the 8th and chatted to you a fair bit. I also had a short interview like you and was worried so totally surprised I received and invite to Doha for next week. I have heard of a few other former XL Airways guys who have also been invited but then a whole bunch of others who haven't heard. It's on the B777 sim. Fingers crossed for me and also for you mate that you'll still get invited.
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STUPITY RULES?
Yeah sort of true. More like Immaturity Rules. Goat Airways is a juvenile airline with a nuffy CEO. EY is so young and in spite of past turbulence seems to have a mature management team poised to grab the future. Why would a discerning professional (i.e. disposable Goat commodity) continue riding The Stupid Goat? From year to year nothing changes but the Ramadan Tent carpets, and that's just to maintain national prestige appearance. Wankers!
Just do it.....
Yeah sort of true. More like Immaturity Rules. Goat Airways is a juvenile airline with a nuffy CEO. EY is so young and in spite of past turbulence seems to have a mature management team poised to grab the future. Why would a discerning professional (i.e. disposable Goat commodity) continue riding The Stupid Goat? From year to year nothing changes but the Ramadan Tent carpets, and that's just to maintain national prestige appearance. Wankers!
Just do it.....
Last edited by Two Dogs....; 19th Oct 2008 at 22:10.
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fly-half wrote:
So the rumors are confirmed again, IM is inviting his friends from the bankrupt XL Airways as DEC on the 777. IM had a list of 70 or so names he selected them personally.
XL guys, if you were a friend of IM you will join QA, if you had an issue with him back home…forget about QA.
I have heard of a few other former XL Airways guys who have also been invited but then a whole bunch of others who haven't heard. It's on the B777 sim. Fingers crossed for me and also for you mate that you'll still get invited.
So the rumors are confirmed again, IM is inviting his friends from the bankrupt XL Airways as DEC on the 777. IM had a list of 70 or so names he selected them personally.
XL guys, if you were a friend of IM you will join QA, if you had an issue with him back home…forget about QA.
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A320Man, your ideas of QR worrying about losing A320 guys if they recruit widebody guys from outside works for most other airlines,but the majority of the QR workforce will not leave,they will complain sure, but will not leave. Most have not the license or passport go elsewhere, just look at the history...guys have always complained,moaned etc but in the end who actually leaves...a very small number,usually the ones more qualified with the right passports and licenses. QR know this, and know that by just doing what they want, the amount who leave is negligible.Its better for them to attract newcomers onto 777, get the numbers up,compred to the the upset guys waiting their turn,they know they wont leave anyway.Overall, pilot numbers increase. Its always worked like that,and in the current pilot shortage looming, they have an even larger supply.
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Hi Fly-Half,
Good luck hope it all works out for you!! not much happing here in Canada. no email yet..maybe it ill come.. hope to see you in Doha for coffee.
Cheers
widebody
Good luck hope it all works out for you!! not much happing here in Canada. no email yet..maybe it ill come.. hope to see you in Doha for coffee.
Cheers
widebody
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Tuan74,
Do you know why most of us are pissed off the charter guys who struck gold?? Because they want to have all the gold for themselves, meanwhile throwing dirt over us!!
We don't mind if they get gold...or BMW series 7...etc, but we mind eating dirt meanwhile.
Do you know why most of us are pissed off the charter guys who struck gold?? Because they want to have all the gold for themselves, meanwhile throwing dirt over us!!
We don't mind if they get gold...or BMW series 7...etc, but we mind eating dirt meanwhile.
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That's the sickness of this goat airline....they'll never learned really... all this new management guys come and go just to get their 'gold' and screw everybody else... hey by the way...for them why should they care about other people....????? As long as they gets what they want...
As in QA..the more senior you are the more you'll get screwed anyway...that's the game plan here.....
As in QA..the more senior you are the more you'll get screwed anyway...that's the game plan here.....
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hi guys, we had a QR interview these days in rome and many AZ pilots worried for their future attended... i tried to figure out how is life in QR from the posts but i got a bit confused? i have a couple of questions and some of you may ask:
what are the differences between the fleets?
is rostering that different between A320/330 and 777?
upgrades or fleet change are so difficult?
is the paycheck so different if you fly long or short haul?
many thanks
what are the differences between the fleets?
is rostering that different between A320/330 and 777?
upgrades or fleet change are so difficult?
is the paycheck so different if you fly long or short haul?
many thanks
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Vento0
I think we have about 4 Italian pilots here. One of them in management. So you guys stand a chance, thats for sure.
The question is: will you survive here? The lifestyle is very very different than the one you are used to, and so is the company culture!
Do not expect any respect because you are a pilot, no privileges, nothing!
Oh, and no more Armani uniforms and RayBan sunglasses!
But hey, as far as I am concerned, if you can fly an airplane and you have good knowledge and airmanship, please come over! We need any good pilot we can find!
Change of subject:
Unofficial poll
It seems like our leaders are trying to create a company without any fleetransfers possible. And most probably the A320 will be turned into a low cost arm eventually.
Q: What percentage of A320 pilots will stay here/come here in case this theory of mine is true?
I think we have about 4 Italian pilots here. One of them in management. So you guys stand a chance, thats for sure.
The question is: will you survive here? The lifestyle is very very different than the one you are used to, and so is the company culture!
Do not expect any respect because you are a pilot, no privileges, nothing!
Oh, and no more Armani uniforms and RayBan sunglasses!
But hey, as far as I am concerned, if you can fly an airplane and you have good knowledge and airmanship, please come over! We need any good pilot we can find!
Change of subject:
Unofficial poll
It seems like our leaders are trying to create a company without any fleetransfers possible. And most probably the A320 will be turned into a low cost arm eventually.
Q: What percentage of A320 pilots will stay here/come here in case this theory of mine is true?
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thanks for the quick answer...
well things are changing fast in italy as well, not in europe so far, but the newco that will come out from the merge of az and airone will be pretty much a low cost carrier, for size and contracts,with no way to survive the market... my opinion of course.
i do realize that climate, costumes and way of life are different down there and i tried to guess how it could be my family and me moving..
. i guess i am going to leave dog behind!!.. many years ago, when i was in the armed forces i stayed in the gulf for a while, but it is probably not the same place anymore...if called for the sim ride i will see myself
and believe me no more armani and ray-ban in here, privileges are gone, and careers frozen, so, after too many years on the "minibus" i thought it was time to change and aspire for the long-haul birds...
basically you dismantled my dreams
... just joking!!
thanks again for the advice... ciao
p.s. to answer your poll... not many people here talks about the application sent.. i guess in rome we were around 150 200 pilots ranging from old 777 and 767 cpts to A320 and MD80 cpts and a lot of FOs with about 9yrs seniority from all the fleets ( boeing airbus + MD11)... around 860 will be dropped by newco some of them will wait for re-employment but others will be around... honestly we do not know the rules that will be used: seniority, juniority, type rating... all of the above???
sorry... not to much help...
well things are changing fast in italy as well, not in europe so far, but the newco that will come out from the merge of az and airone will be pretty much a low cost carrier, for size and contracts,with no way to survive the market... my opinion of course.
i do realize that climate, costumes and way of life are different down there and i tried to guess how it could be my family and me moving..
. i guess i am going to leave dog behind!!.. many years ago, when i was in the armed forces i stayed in the gulf for a while, but it is probably not the same place anymore...if called for the sim ride i will see myselfand believe me no more armani and ray-ban in here, privileges are gone, and careers frozen, so, after too many years on the "minibus" i thought it was time to change and aspire for the long-haul birds...
basically you dismantled my dreams
... just joking!!thanks again for the advice... ciao
p.s. to answer your poll... not many people here talks about the application sent.. i guess in rome we were around 150 200 pilots ranging from old 777 and 767 cpts to A320 and MD80 cpts and a lot of FOs with about 9yrs seniority from all the fleets ( boeing airbus + MD11)... around 860 will be dropped by newco some of them will wait for re-employment but others will be around... honestly we do not know the rules that will be used: seniority, juniority, type rating... all of the above???
sorry... not to much help...
Last edited by vento0; 23rd Oct 2008 at 13:55.
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Hi vento0
Its very easy .... If you need a job and you want a change of life, by all means come here! The money will be in the bank, you are not too far away from home etc...
Come over, have a look. If you like it stay! If you dont like it, go!
You will have survived one more year, you will have kept your licence current and probably you will have gained some experience!
There is a rather large italian comunity in Doha (inclusive an absolute nutcase of an ambassador) so your family can be happy.
The company...well...just read the posts here! Survivable but not ideal as a long term option!
The fleet: If you have Boeing experience, they will hire you on the B777. If not chances are 50/50 between 320 and 330.
If after the interview they offer you 320 and you want 330, just tell them! Let them know you are aware of the crazy rules in here. They are so desperately looking for pilots they will offer you the job anyway.
Do us all a favor, let us know what they offered and what you did afterwards! Id like to know if its all true.
Good luck mate.
As an alternative: Try EY, EK and GF as well
Its very easy .... If you need a job and you want a change of life, by all means come here! The money will be in the bank, you are not too far away from home etc...
Come over, have a look. If you like it stay! If you dont like it, go!
You will have survived one more year, you will have kept your licence current and probably you will have gained some experience!
There is a rather large italian comunity in Doha (inclusive an absolute nutcase of an ambassador) so your family can be happy.
The company...well...just read the posts here! Survivable but not ideal as a long term option!
The fleet: If you have Boeing experience, they will hire you on the B777. If not chances are 50/50 between 320 and 330.
If after the interview they offer you 320 and you want 330, just tell them! Let them know you are aware of the crazy rules in here. They are so desperately looking for pilots they will offer you the job anyway.
Do us all a favor, let us know what they offered and what you did afterwards! Id like to know if its all true.
Good luck mate.
As an alternative: Try EY, EK and GF as well