Nice paycut today.....
Join Date: Jun 2001
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There are official channels to use that don't involve radical union type movements, which most pilots believe is the only way it could be done. Simply challenging unreasonable edicts of management through the company established processes for aggrieved employees would get serious attention. They are obliged to address them.
In the past, I believe that you could pursue grievances through official channels but it has become apparent to me that the company no longer feels compelled to even follow their own rules (just look at their complete disregard for the ULR rest guidelines in their own publication for the IAH layover).
Join Date: Mar 2004
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EUR still making record highs along with Oil.
GBP back up
US Dollar index at a record low
So more paycut today, higher inflation, and recession now confirmed.
The airlines will not announce any payrises until the last possible moment. As the USA is now in recession they are banking on the pilot market contracting and therefore little need to be too generous with any salary increases.
Who knows, if the market contacts fast enough, they may not need to give any payrise at all. No-one will quit in a rush if there is nowhere to go!
In recession, top of the list on things to economise on are the annual holiday and any avoidable business trips. Lower loads, tighter margins. Pilots a dime a dozen.
This is not looking good if you are in the airline industry.
GBP back up
US Dollar index at a record low
So more paycut today, higher inflation, and recession now confirmed.
The airlines will not announce any payrises until the last possible moment. As the USA is now in recession they are banking on the pilot market contracting and therefore little need to be too generous with any salary increases.
Who knows, if the market contacts fast enough, they may not need to give any payrise at all. No-one will quit in a rush if there is nowhere to go!
In recession, top of the list on things to economise on are the annual holiday and any avoidable business trips. Lower loads, tighter margins. Pilots a dime a dozen.
This is not looking good if you are in the airline industry.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Hello Gillegan,
I was told the Zimbabweans recently challenged the ERP Policy using the official procedures and won after a lengthy struggle. As a lot of them had been kicked out of their home country and had been forced to move elsewhere they probably had a good argument.
Speak to some of them, but the "official channels" appear to work. A comparitively small number making a strong case, and EK tried every excuse to put them off and wear them down - but eventually saw reason.
Guess you need a few people, fighting a strong case and a lot of perseverance.
I was told the Zimbabweans recently challenged the ERP Policy using the official procedures and won after a lengthy struggle. As a lot of them had been kicked out of their home country and had been forced to move elsewhere they probably had a good argument.
Speak to some of them, but the "official channels" appear to work. A comparitively small number making a strong case, and EK tried every excuse to put them off and wear them down - but eventually saw reason.
Guess you need a few people, fighting a strong case and a lot of perseverance.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Hello Gillegan,
I was told the Zimbabweans recently challenged the ERP Policy using the official procedures and won after a lengthy struggle. As a lot of them had been kicked out of their home country and had been forced to move elsewhere they probably had a good argument.
Speak to some of them, but the "official channels" appear to work. A comparitively small number making a strong case, and EK tried every excuse to put them off and wear them down - but eventually saw reason.
Guess you need a few people, fighting a strong case and a lot of perseverance.
I was told the Zimbabweans recently challenged the ERP Policy using the official procedures and won after a lengthy struggle. As a lot of them had been kicked out of their home country and had been forced to move elsewhere they probably had a good argument.
Speak to some of them, but the "official channels" appear to work. A comparitively small number making a strong case, and EK tried every excuse to put them off and wear them down - but eventually saw reason.
Guess you need a few people, fighting a strong case and a lot of perseverance.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I can ... after getting zero response from CSRs I have submitted on significant issues. My attempts to follow up get the same result each time..." your report is being processed" Taken 4 years so far for the first one.... I will not waste my time again.
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I can ... after getting zero response from CSRs I have submitted on significant issues. My attempts to follow up get the same result each time..." your report is being processed"
Both nearly jumped down my throat asking if I had submitted an ASR - and both went on to say that they see many pilots complaining of excessive tiredness because of the current rostering practices. However, so few ASRs are submitted that they don't have a leg to stand on when they pass on what the pilots say to them about their fatigue.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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410. Don't simply tell the doctors. The ASR's on this topic seem pointless too. Who's going to ruin the day by dropping that hot potato at the next meeting? Call Crew Control, make sure they mark you down as Fatigued. Be specific: not sick, but fatigued and ensure they give the correct code.
The roster records must be kept. If the fatigue level is as high as it is claimed to be then the records will show this and no-one will have the inclination to tamper with the records retrospectively. They are kept by far too many people.
Be smart - Telling people things is a waste of breath around these parts. Its forgotten the moment you are out of sight. Everything must go on record.
The roster records must be kept. If the fatigue level is as high as it is claimed to be then the records will show this and no-one will have the inclination to tamper with the records retrospectively. They are kept by far too many people.
Be smart - Telling people things is a waste of breath around these parts. Its forgotten the moment you are out of sight. Everything must go on record.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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All these unfavourite rostering must have led more colleagues now - specially those from down under or commuting ones - to jump the sinkin' EK-ship;
the last prominent TRI being now Ken P. - who looks for greener grass and descent treatment down under @V. Australia
the last one switches off the light - please
the last prominent TRI being now Ken P. - who looks for greener grass and descent treatment down under @V. Australia
the last one switches off the light - please
Join Date: Oct 2007
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More paycuts to come:
http://www.dailyfx.com/story/currenc...929623530.html
Simply a matter of time. The fed are merely trying to control the dollar devaluation. Nothing will stop it in the near term.
Labour costs in the UAE continue to decline and as long as there are people pitching up to work, the dirham will march hand in hand with the dollar towards its ultimate demise.
http://www.dailyfx.com/story/currenc...929623530.html
Simply a matter of time. The fed are merely trying to control the dollar devaluation. Nothing will stop it in the near term.
Labour costs in the UAE continue to decline and as long as there are people pitching up to work, the dirham will march hand in hand with the dollar towards its ultimate demise.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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For the optimistic here it is!
If you expect a big pay raise dream on... That's what is coming! No wonder the CRS change before the new financial year.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...DEA678160DA%7D
Emirates Airline seeks $100 mln in cost cuts because of costly crude
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Dubai: The Middle East's booming business aviation sector will continue to record annual double-digit growth over the next five years, an executive flight services provider said....
Today Euro/$ 1.53...yallaaaa
Today Euro/$ 1.53...yallaaaa
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Just keep your savings in dirhams until the inevitable break from the dollar peg! There must be an awful lot of wealthy locals asking their leaders why their fortunes are being allowed to shrink in world terms, and Kuwait has already caved. It's just a matter of waiting it out...
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Not that simple Scooby Don't
The ones with fortunes (after all they are the only ones that matter) have been buying all the cheap assets elsewhere.
The big money here has no problem with the inflation. Quite the reverse.
The peg will not be removed until there is another Reserve Currency or Currencies that oil is sold in. Until then no de-peg.
The ones with fortunes (after all they are the only ones that matter) have been buying all the cheap assets elsewhere.
The big money here has no problem with the inflation. Quite the reverse.
The peg will not be removed until there is another Reserve Currency or Currencies that oil is sold in. Until then no de-peg.
Join Date: May 2005
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It seems to me that the government, with its vast resources in both Dirham and USD has a choice to make, and I think they have made it. Either they can repeg the dirham or live with rampant inflation. I think they have chosen the latter for 2 reasons. They think the USD will recover in a few years, which I don't think will happen. And they also wish in some strange way for Dubai to be perceived as a glamorous place, which by necessity would cost more to live or visit. This theory fits in well with the general attitude.
In the short term those living in Dubai will suffer but apparently Dubai does not seem to be having any problems getting workers, be they the slaves building this place, pilots or corporate employees.
EK always has the option, which they are using to its full extent, of hiring pilots from countries in South America or Philippines or from wherever they know that pilots will jump at the opportunity to work for them. (nothing against these guys, in fact I have found them quite nice and decent pilots) Generally speaking though, they have to reduce their previous experience requirements to recruit from places such as Europe, Canada, or OZ in order to procure pilots who have yet to achieve certain levels in their careers.
I used to think it was strange that 'post 9/11' when things in the aviation world looked pretty bleak in the US, very few pilots came to EK. That has changed, which surprises me to some extent.
It might be due to one of the biggest negatives about EK for all other pilots and that is the ever declining value of the USD. Clearly this erosion of our homeland buying power has much less impact on Americans.
In truth, it might be perceived as a positive since the further the USD declines, which it will..... the more pressure to increase our salaries in terms of the dirham, and consequentially USD's. Unfortunately I don't think this is a pressure that management even acknowledges.
To me, the decline of my real salary in terms of my homeland, is not as significant as the decline of my T&C's. I know some will disagree with that, but for me I bitch more about money because the job satisfaction has dropped so rapidly.
So taking a look at things from the warped minds of management. ''We have a limitless resource of pilots from some areas of the world, so why the heck should we change our ways? Who cares if our pilot population is unhappy? If they don't like it, they can leave!''
We are screwed !! I have accepted the fact that things will continue to decline here. I am very disappointed because I truly felt like part of the team when I arrived here. I was quite proud of this airline way back then. I no longer am.
People ask me about Dubai and Emirates and now I do not say this is the place to be. In fact, it takes me a great deal of effort NOT to disparage this place in spite of the fact I feel that way.
I need a vacation ! ( to somewhere normal preferably)
In the short term those living in Dubai will suffer but apparently Dubai does not seem to be having any problems getting workers, be they the slaves building this place, pilots or corporate employees.
EK always has the option, which they are using to its full extent, of hiring pilots from countries in South America or Philippines or from wherever they know that pilots will jump at the opportunity to work for them. (nothing against these guys, in fact I have found them quite nice and decent pilots) Generally speaking though, they have to reduce their previous experience requirements to recruit from places such as Europe, Canada, or OZ in order to procure pilots who have yet to achieve certain levels in their careers.
I used to think it was strange that 'post 9/11' when things in the aviation world looked pretty bleak in the US, very few pilots came to EK. That has changed, which surprises me to some extent.
It might be due to one of the biggest negatives about EK for all other pilots and that is the ever declining value of the USD. Clearly this erosion of our homeland buying power has much less impact on Americans.
In truth, it might be perceived as a positive since the further the USD declines, which it will..... the more pressure to increase our salaries in terms of the dirham, and consequentially USD's. Unfortunately I don't think this is a pressure that management even acknowledges.
To me, the decline of my real salary in terms of my homeland, is not as significant as the decline of my T&C's. I know some will disagree with that, but for me I bitch more about money because the job satisfaction has dropped so rapidly.
So taking a look at things from the warped minds of management. ''We have a limitless resource of pilots from some areas of the world, so why the heck should we change our ways? Who cares if our pilot population is unhappy? If they don't like it, they can leave!''
We are screwed !! I have accepted the fact that things will continue to decline here. I am very disappointed because I truly felt like part of the team when I arrived here. I was quite proud of this airline way back then. I no longer am.
People ask me about Dubai and Emirates and now I do not say this is the place to be. In fact, it takes me a great deal of effort NOT to disparage this place in spite of the fact I feel that way.
I need a vacation ! ( to somewhere normal preferably)
Join Date: Mar 2004
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When I joined EK, I believed it would be a job for life.
The world has changed.
The employment market has changed
The financial landscape has changed
EK has changed
I don't believe they want people here for life. Its too expensive. The numbers say that its best if a pilot leaves after 6-7 years. That is cost effective for EK.
Naturally they will adjust T&C and Salary to encourage this. Highest attrition is around this service bracket. (And longer as the system adjusts) Natural causes will take care of the rest.
A pilot is a resource. It has a definable economic useful life then becomes no longer cost effective and must be replaced.
The world has changed.
The employment market has changed
The financial landscape has changed
EK has changed
I don't believe they want people here for life. Its too expensive. The numbers say that its best if a pilot leaves after 6-7 years. That is cost effective for EK.
Naturally they will adjust T&C and Salary to encourage this. Highest attrition is around this service bracket. (And longer as the system adjusts) Natural causes will take care of the rest.
A pilot is a resource. It has a definable economic useful life then becomes no longer cost effective and must be replaced.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I had a dream....
or nightmare some would say,
It goes like this,,,,
All the pilots decided they had enough and they all decided to resign on the same day. On the newspaper the next day we could read, "pilots to earn 1 million dollar per year due to mega-shortage" 
..............going back to bed, Cheers!
It goes like this,,,,
All the pilots decided they had enough and they all decided to resign on the same day. On the newspaper the next day we could read, "pilots to earn 1 million dollar per year due to mega-shortage" ..............going back to bed, Cheers!
Join Date: Oct 2007
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http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...n=business&col=
Two certainties:
1) The Dollar and Dirham have a lot further to fall.
2) EK will make sure that they extract maximum benefit from the situation.
Yes TC is right. They will save 100 million. The writing is on the wall.
Two certainties:
1) The Dollar and Dirham have a lot further to fall.
2) EK will make sure that they extract maximum benefit from the situation.
Yes TC is right. They will save 100 million. The writing is on the wall.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Currency fluctuations
Been there - Done that - Before most, if not all of you...
xxx
I had my ups and downs like you have now, with the devaluation of the US Dollar. Was I complaining back then...? No, I did not. Because it went both ways during my career which has been very long. And I continue to work and fly airplanes until next November, when I will be forced to retire because of my age, only because I need to. I need the income. I might even elect to continue with my management position (no line flying then) because my pension and retirement will not be much.
xxx
Yet I now live in a country that some of you, call the "third world"...
xxx
I remember the Octobe War, 1973, and my layoff for PanAm, and taking ACMI jobs, often contracts in the Middle East (Jeddah with Saudia), not exactly my cup of tea, but I survived. I took jobs, either paid in US Dollars, or in local currencies, with full knowledge that I would be an expatriate for a few years, and could be subject to the currency fluctuations.
xxx
I have known the US Dollar very high on currency exchange rates... Was it about 1981-1982, when the Dollar went to be almost near the Sterling...? If I recall well , the US Dollar was worth well over twice what it is worth today. The companies that hired me during my furloughs had to pay a fortune for their US crews with US Dollar contracts. But they paid... They did not say "let us review our numbers", or "could we renegotiate this contract"...
xxx
I expatriated myself twice in my life, from Belgium, to the USA in 1968, then from the USA to Argentina in 1993. And in-between, I spent a few years in the "sandbox" with camels and goats for company, and getting my ears blasted 5 times a day by prayers on loudspeakers when I tried to sleep for a long flight the following night... But when I went, I knew what would be there and I knew that currency exchange fluctuate. I learned about finances with a Monopoly game as a kid... but maybe you did not.
xxx
You are so unhappy in Dubai, or Bahrain, or Doha, or Muscat, or Jeddah-beach-by-the-sea... You make me laugh. Your friends "back home", in North America, in Europe or Australia would be happy to receive your devaluated salaries, and fly your up-to-date junk Airbooses. You were given that choice a few years ago. It was your decision. And many of you dont pay income tax.
xxx
According to the numbers quoted above, you enjoy salaries which are higher than mine, yet I am 64, with 23,000 hrs and TRE/TRI management position in 747-200s... And there is no complaining here, from me. What happened in Argentina in early 2002 should open your eyes.
xxx
When I left USA, PanAm bankruptcy, I had to declare bankruptcy myself, lost the home I had, and the cars I had... Have you guys lost your home yet...? Then I went to live back with my old mother in Brussels... Do you guys have to live with your parents because you cannot afford meals and housing...?
xxx
When I got to Argentina, I was given a contract in Pesos/Dollars - It did not matter then, in 1993-2001 period, the Argentina Peso exchange rate was 1 to 1 with the US Dollar. At the supermarket, in Buenos Aires, I paid with a mix of Dollar bills and Pesos... Everyone was happy. My contract was a round and even $10,000/month back then, more than what I had with PanAm.
xxx
Then in early 2002, Argentina Pesos went down the tube... Way down. Banks were closed, riots in the streets, 70% unemployment, my airline nearly closed down as well (I am a veteran of airline bankruptcies) - and finally the Peso did end to be US$1.oo = 3.15 Pesos... Do I need to tell you that my 10,000/mo contract is in Pesos...? So see what was left. No complaining here. Now I pay my bills in Pesos, no more Dollars. And when on layover in Madrid or Rome, my beer for debriefing, or my cup of coffee are paid in Euros... no refills. No wonder the cabin crewmembers fill their bags with sandwiches from the galley. Can you guys afford a shwarma from a street vendor in the UAE...?
No wonder I occasionally take leaves to moonlight on Haj contracts for a few weeks to be paid in greenbacks, no matter how low they are.
xxx
So, learn from the old-timers... When working overseas, you shall be subject to currency fluctuations. It was your decision - Good luck to all of you, it could be worse.
xxx
Happy contrails, with low fuel flow for us down here.
xxx
I had my ups and downs like you have now, with the devaluation of the US Dollar. Was I complaining back then...? No, I did not. Because it went both ways during my career which has been very long. And I continue to work and fly airplanes until next November, when I will be forced to retire because of my age, only because I need to. I need the income. I might even elect to continue with my management position (no line flying then) because my pension and retirement will not be much.
xxx
Yet I now live in a country that some of you, call the "third world"...
xxx
I remember the Octobe War, 1973, and my layoff for PanAm, and taking ACMI jobs, often contracts in the Middle East (Jeddah with Saudia), not exactly my cup of tea, but I survived. I took jobs, either paid in US Dollars, or in local currencies, with full knowledge that I would be an expatriate for a few years, and could be subject to the currency fluctuations.
xxx
I have known the US Dollar very high on currency exchange rates... Was it about 1981-1982, when the Dollar went to be almost near the Sterling...? If I recall well , the US Dollar was worth well over twice what it is worth today. The companies that hired me during my furloughs had to pay a fortune for their US crews with US Dollar contracts. But they paid... They did not say "let us review our numbers", or "could we renegotiate this contract"...
xxx
I expatriated myself twice in my life, from Belgium, to the USA in 1968, then from the USA to Argentina in 1993. And in-between, I spent a few years in the "sandbox" with camels and goats for company, and getting my ears blasted 5 times a day by prayers on loudspeakers when I tried to sleep for a long flight the following night... But when I went, I knew what would be there and I knew that currency exchange fluctuate. I learned about finances with a Monopoly game as a kid... but maybe you did not.
xxx
You are so unhappy in Dubai, or Bahrain, or Doha, or Muscat, or Jeddah-beach-by-the-sea... You make me laugh. Your friends "back home", in North America, in Europe or Australia would be happy to receive your devaluated salaries, and fly your up-to-date junk Airbooses. You were given that choice a few years ago. It was your decision. And many of you dont pay income tax.
xxx
According to the numbers quoted above, you enjoy salaries which are higher than mine, yet I am 64, with 23,000 hrs and TRE/TRI management position in 747-200s... And there is no complaining here, from me. What happened in Argentina in early 2002 should open your eyes.
xxx
When I left USA, PanAm bankruptcy, I had to declare bankruptcy myself, lost the home I had, and the cars I had... Have you guys lost your home yet...? Then I went to live back with my old mother in Brussels... Do you guys have to live with your parents because you cannot afford meals and housing...?
xxx
When I got to Argentina, I was given a contract in Pesos/Dollars - It did not matter then, in 1993-2001 period, the Argentina Peso exchange rate was 1 to 1 with the US Dollar. At the supermarket, in Buenos Aires, I paid with a mix of Dollar bills and Pesos... Everyone was happy. My contract was a round and even $10,000/month back then, more than what I had with PanAm.
xxx
Then in early 2002, Argentina Pesos went down the tube... Way down. Banks were closed, riots in the streets, 70% unemployment, my airline nearly closed down as well (I am a veteran of airline bankruptcies) - and finally the Peso did end to be US$1.oo = 3.15 Pesos... Do I need to tell you that my 10,000/mo contract is in Pesos...? So see what was left. No complaining here. Now I pay my bills in Pesos, no more Dollars. And when on layover in Madrid or Rome, my beer for debriefing, or my cup of coffee are paid in Euros... no refills. No wonder the cabin crewmembers fill their bags with sandwiches from the galley. Can you guys afford a shwarma from a street vendor in the UAE...?
No wonder I occasionally take leaves to moonlight on Haj contracts for a few weeks to be paid in greenbacks, no matter how low they are.
xxx
So, learn from the old-timers... When working overseas, you shall be subject to currency fluctuations. It was your decision - Good luck to all of you, it could be worse.
xxx
Happy contrails, with low fuel flow for us down here.
Last edited by BelArgUSA; 9th Mar 2008 at 10:00.