Nice paycut today.....
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Another Nice paycut today.....
Ok, no more updates, no more us$ rates, or gold or gas, etc....
I had enough
,
Cheers guys and good luck to all. I m out. bye.
I had enough
, Cheers guys and good luck to all. I m out. bye.
Last edited by Apache702; 14th Mar 2008 at 22:43. Reason: Updated rates
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I like how you make it sound like the airlines faults. Depegging from the greenback or at least revaluing the current peg with the greenback would be the way to go. But with the GCC planning on a common currency/market (as modelled after the EU), this makes things far more complicated, simply because 'union' doesn't necessarily mean 'unity'....kinda like throwing a pair of cats over the clothesline with their tails tied together.. you will have a union there but no unity.
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Air Canada's pilots live, save and will, most likely ,retire in Canada. Most expat pilots will not retire where they work.
Currency fluctuation IS an EXPATRIATE airline's problem.
Currency fluctuation IS an EXPATRIATE airline's problem.
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Olbie, actualy, Air Canada pilots based their salary demands on the average American airline salary in every contract they negotiated in the 90s...I guess they wont next time around!
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Remember the Euro started at .92 to the $$, theses things do change although the last 5 years the dollar fall has been dramatic. " Thanks George ". Currency speculation anybody ?????
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Drats, menard. Does that mean I will have to suffer the pains of leaving, finding another job, moving to another continent etc etc just so that my airline will get the message of inadequate salaries and OTHERS benefit from it? Boy, we are really in the wrong business when we've got to vote with our feet every time to improve conditions! The sad truth is, they know it and would rather be reactive than proactive everytime in addressing this.
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No, it's simple, when the deal is not good anymore (call it currency, lifestyle etc.etc...) bye, bye...Out.
You choose, nobody else does for you. That's where the whole question begins, and ends...
No agenda or message to the company....This is no democraty....
Every expat will leave one day, the only unknown is...When?....
You choose, nobody else does for you. That's where the whole question begins, and ends...
No agenda or message to the company....This is no democraty....
Every expat will leave one day, the only unknown is...When?....
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A comparison of an EK Captain Salary. This includes all increases for years of service etc. (To Nearest 100 Dhs)
2002 - 24500 Dhs (No Flying Pay so guaraneed all year) = EUR 7855
2008 - 41000 Dhs (Includes 78 hrs Flying Pay) = EUR 7350
2008 - 37500 Dhs (No Flying Pay Included - Eg on leave or sick) = EUR 6753
Draw your own conclusions......
If comparing starting captains salary then the following:
2002 - 24500 Dhs (No Flying Pay so guaraneed all year) = EUR 7855
2008 - 33260 Dhs (Includes 78 hrs Flying Pay) = EUR 5960
2008 - 37500 Dhs (No Flying Pay Included - Eg on leave or sick) = EUR 5330
This represents a deline in Starting Captain salary of 25% over the 6 years.
(Note the maximum ERP protection possible in any circumstances is 7.5% of salary)
The decline has accelerated in progressive years.
2002 - 24500 Dhs (No Flying Pay so guaraneed all year) = EUR 7855
2008 - 41000 Dhs (Includes 78 hrs Flying Pay) = EUR 7350
2008 - 37500 Dhs (No Flying Pay Included - Eg on leave or sick) = EUR 6753
Draw your own conclusions......
If comparing starting captains salary then the following:
2002 - 24500 Dhs (No Flying Pay so guaraneed all year) = EUR 7855
2008 - 33260 Dhs (Includes 78 hrs Flying Pay) = EUR 5960
2008 - 37500 Dhs (No Flying Pay Included - Eg on leave or sick) = EUR 5330
This represents a deline in Starting Captain salary of 25% over the 6 years.
(Note the maximum ERP protection possible in any circumstances is 7.5% of salary)
The decline has accelerated in progressive years.
Last edited by disconnected; 2nd Mar 2008 at 19:19.
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Ouch. A salary going backwards while the world grapples with rising inflation.
Costs of tickets, even measured in Dirhams is not going backwards. No wonder there is a billion dollar profit.
Pity they can't spin a bit back to the workers suffering the price rises to make the company billions.
We can dream....
Costs of tickets, even measured in Dirhams is not going backwards. No wonder there is a billion dollar profit.
Pity they can't spin a bit back to the workers suffering the price rises to make the company billions.
We can dream....
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The problem is, there will always be somebody out there who will take the work and be happy with the money ! The flying game used to be "white man's magic" and so it was a gravy train for western pilot's in the middle east.
Flying is not considered such a big deal anymore and pilots are hired from all over the world and happy with what we would consider to be raw deal.
We can always return to ryan air and pay for our own type ratings , sim checks and uniforms ! Time for a career change ?
Flying is not considered such a big deal anymore and pilots are hired from all over the world and happy with what we would consider to be raw deal.
We can always return to ryan air and pay for our own type ratings , sim checks and uniforms ! Time for a career change ?
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Candian pilot where living and working in Canada, their home country.
I'm not. I'm leaving as an expat with no chance of getting a citizenship in this place that I really don't like. So don't give me bull****.
I reason in terms of my homeland currencie because there i send my money. You can live with that if you want but to me if the salary,converted in my currencie, is not enough I send them to fu#@ o## easy as that!!!
And... Mirabeau yes....definetely time for it... let's let the f#@#@g managers that screwed us so easily ( and it's the category's fault...)
wake up at 1 am ...for peanuts.
Cost of labour is still dropping for Emirates. Their revenues are in different currencies mainly euros, AU GBP Rupye and others not pegged to the sinking dollar. Every euro is becoming more and more dhirams...and with them they are paying your same same ****ty salary... why should they be looking for unpeg?
I'm not. I'm leaving as an expat with no chance of getting a citizenship in this place that I really don't like. So don't give me bull****.
I reason in terms of my homeland currencie because there i send my money. You can live with that if you want but to me if the salary,converted in my currencie, is not enough I send them to fu#@ o## easy as that!!!
And... Mirabeau yes....definetely time for it... let's let the f#@#@g managers that screwed us so easily ( and it's the category's fault...)
wake up at 1 am ...for peanuts.
Cost of labour is still dropping for Emirates. Their revenues are in different currencies mainly euros, AU GBP Rupye and others not pegged to the sinking dollar. Every euro is becoming more and more dhirams...and with them they are paying your same same ****ty salary... why should they be looking for unpeg?
Last edited by Internationalpilot; 4th Mar 2008 at 09:33.
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SNAM
I think you are missing the point. No one blames the UAE government for the dollar's woes. I daresay they have many reasons to revalue, unpeg or not. Yes they are taking advantage of the reducing labour cost relative to their revenues but then who wouldn't. Personally I think if they dont do something about it, things will come unglued a bit faster than they might expect.
To be fair the UAE govenment has raised their own worker salaries quickly to keep pace. They cannot force the hand of companies however.
The general bitterness is with EK for not at least making salaries keep neutral over the years. That in itself would be a saving as ticket/cargo prices have risen with inflation in whatever country. Nor is this a single currency issue. Most currencies have climbed hugely relative to the dollar.
One could also excuse EK if the cost of living was rising marginally but the inflation is at least 4 times what most countries are comfortable with. No relief from EK on that score. Just condescending rhetoric to show that its not what everyone, including newspapers and economists knows it is.
For newjoiners the deal is the deal. In time they become the disaffected cynics like all the rest. But for the longer serving employees there is massive resentment, when effectively they are told their worth is less, year after year. Particularly when they have to suffer their own company publications crowing about how much bigger the profits are than the last year and how much they appreciate all the hard work we all put in.
Doesn't really sound convincing now does it? If we are doing such a great job, then dont let our salaries actually decline in real terms.
I think you are missing the point. No one blames the UAE government for the dollar's woes. I daresay they have many reasons to revalue, unpeg or not. Yes they are taking advantage of the reducing labour cost relative to their revenues but then who wouldn't. Personally I think if they dont do something about it, things will come unglued a bit faster than they might expect.
To be fair the UAE govenment has raised their own worker salaries quickly to keep pace. They cannot force the hand of companies however.
The general bitterness is with EK for not at least making salaries keep neutral over the years. That in itself would be a saving as ticket/cargo prices have risen with inflation in whatever country. Nor is this a single currency issue. Most currencies have climbed hugely relative to the dollar.
One could also excuse EK if the cost of living was rising marginally but the inflation is at least 4 times what most countries are comfortable with. No relief from EK on that score. Just condescending rhetoric to show that its not what everyone, including newspapers and economists knows it is.
For newjoiners the deal is the deal. In time they become the disaffected cynics like all the rest. But for the longer serving employees there is massive resentment, when effectively they are told their worth is less, year after year. Particularly when they have to suffer their own company publications crowing about how much bigger the profits are than the last year and how much they appreciate all the hard work we all put in.
Doesn't really sound convincing now does it? If we are doing such a great job, then dont let our salaries actually decline in real terms.
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SNAM
Yes well aware that the industry pays less. But are salaries in EUR (your measure) actually decreasing over the past 6 years for someone in the company and presumably becoming more senior and occasionally getting a little raise?
As Disco shows a particular Captain over 6 years takes home less. If EUR inflation is 5% then one would expect rises of at least 2% in EUR a year and this still realising a net deterioration.
And indeed we work more but not for the same old salary. No - A decreasing one in your EUR terms. Hence the alarm. Extrapolated this goes below the poverty line and then to zero. Not an immediate threat I agree but we ask to what level it goes before we are forced to go and find alternative employment.
Are these airlines making the profit margins of EK?
As for the ERP - no it does not cover the shortfall (Max it can be is 7.5% of basic) and in time washes away to nothing. The GBP one almost halved recently. Nor does it apply to the flying hours so will be further diluted.
We ask at the very least that salaries stay level in EUR terms (dare I ask a tiny increase for years for service) and have all accepted that harder work for it is the name of the game. Is that unreasonable?
Yes well aware that the industry pays less. But are salaries in EUR (your measure) actually decreasing over the past 6 years for someone in the company and presumably becoming more senior and occasionally getting a little raise?
As Disco shows a particular Captain over 6 years takes home less. If EUR inflation is 5% then one would expect rises of at least 2% in EUR a year and this still realising a net deterioration.
And indeed we work more but not for the same old salary. No - A decreasing one in your EUR terms. Hence the alarm. Extrapolated this goes below the poverty line and then to zero. Not an immediate threat I agree but we ask to what level it goes before we are forced to go and find alternative employment.
Are these airlines making the profit margins of EK?
As for the ERP - no it does not cover the shortfall (Max it can be is 7.5% of basic) and in time washes away to nothing. The GBP one almost halved recently. Nor does it apply to the flying hours so will be further diluted.
We ask at the very least that salaries stay level in EUR terms (dare I ask a tiny increase for years for service) and have all accepted that harder work for it is the name of the game. Is that unreasonable?
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Pilots will not challenge management for a number of reasons.
They are too apathetic.
They are not particularly bright wrt how to be effective.
I say this because many moan. Few actually voice their concerns to management. Those that do are generally abandoned by their apathetic colleagues. Its too difficult and percieved risky. And it would be if not conducted correctly and without threat and table banging.
There are official channels to use that don't involve radical union type movements, which most pilots believe is the only way it could be done. Simply challenging unreasonable edicts of management through the company established processes for aggrieved employees would get serious attention. They are obliged to address them.
Letters, phonecalls and emails are a complete waste of time as the company can simply ignore them. After all these are not formal complaints - simply an employee's opinion, from the company's perspective, and can therefore be dismissed. Who's complaining? No one formally.
I guarantee that if 1% of the pilot pool took up formal grievance, on a legitimate issue, the company would moderate their stance.
They are too apathetic.
They are not particularly bright wrt how to be effective.
I say this because many moan. Few actually voice their concerns to management. Those that do are generally abandoned by their apathetic colleagues. Its too difficult and percieved risky. And it would be if not conducted correctly and without threat and table banging.
There are official channels to use that don't involve radical union type movements, which most pilots believe is the only way it could be done. Simply challenging unreasonable edicts of management through the company established processes for aggrieved employees would get serious attention. They are obliged to address them.
Letters, phonecalls and emails are a complete waste of time as the company can simply ignore them. After all these are not formal complaints - simply an employee's opinion, from the company's perspective, and can therefore be dismissed. Who's complaining? No one formally.
I guarantee that if 1% of the pilot pool took up formal grievance, on a legitimate issue, the company would moderate their stance.
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"Letters, phonecalls and emails are a complete waste of time as the company can simply ignore them. After all these are not formal complaints - simply an employee's opinion, from the company's perspective, and can therefore be dismissed. Who's complaining? No one formally."
I've been there disconnected, so true, so true.....So true....
I've been there disconnected, so true, so true.....So true....
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Ouch.
EUR hits new records above 1.53
GBP at 1.99 again
Gold posts over a $20 gain to regain record heights
Oil touches a record 104
Dow flirting with drops towards 12000 and the S&P 1300 moving to the downside.
The dollar is dying. The Dirham is dying with it.
The inflation about to hit Dubai will make your eyes water.
So another paycut again today....
EUR hits new records above 1.53
GBP at 1.99 again
Gold posts over a $20 gain to regain record heights
Oil touches a record 104
Dow flirting with drops towards 12000 and the S&P 1300 moving to the downside.
The dollar is dying. The Dirham is dying with it.
The inflation about to hit Dubai will make your eyes water.
So another paycut again today....