You are being monitored
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You are being monitored
Attention Emirates Pilots.
Let me be quite clear as to just what your standing is as far as us, your executive management and superiors, are concerned.
Minimal.
Another point that needs to be made very clear is just what we think of your opinions. We neither want nor seek your advice on any matter. We have not, do not and will not ever ask for your input on operational, technical or safety matters. We know best, and we can do what we like, when we like, how we like. You have no recourse, no means of changing anything. You will do as you are told. The sooner you accept this, the easier you will sleep. And sleep is what you are going to need, once our ULR flights start in earnest. Stand by for further adjustments to your Flight and Duty time Limits. We don’t consider them to be limits in any case. They are Flight and Duty time Targets. And you better believe how good our aim is.
An earlier post on PPRUNE, in connection with the provided Crew Rest Facility on the B777 stated that EK management has no respect for their pilots. That is 100% accurate. We, the executive management and your superiors, collectively extend our middle finger to all of you. The B777 Crew Rest you are forced to use was the absolute cheapest available. In fact, we had to authorize several million dollars per aircraft to remove the standard unit and replace it with your kennel down the back. We know it is unsuitable for rest. We know it is uncomfortable. We don’t care. It doesn’t affect us. Except for our bottom line. We will enjoy bigger bonuses. All on your backs. Thank you.
We have been interested to read some posts recently that suggest sagging morale. Good. That is just how we like it. The worse you feel, the easier our job is. Whilst you are busy concerning yourself with unimportant (and that includes each one of you individually) details, we are busy applying the screws. With unlimited resources, you would be amazed at just how inventive we can be in promulgating ‘cost neutral’ pay adjustments. They are not cost neutral. We make more money. You lose. Whilst you work harder.
Some of you seem to think that the current pilot shortage will work in your favor. You are wrong. We concede there is a pilot shortage of what we once considered acceptable standard. We are not anything if not adaptable. Standards will, and have been, altered. Some of you seem to think that the current pilot shortage will bring pressure on us, your superiors, to increase your compensation package. You are wrong. We will resist at all costs any meaningful increase in your remuneration. We have very deep pockets. You have no idea how deep. We will spend $10,000,000 to save $100,000 if it keeps you in line.
You think, because of your limited observations of the industry, that we will be forced to increase your package. Don’t be so ignorant. Your attention span is limited only to the here and now, maybe a couple of months into the future. We plan for the next 20 or 30 years. Now is the time to come down hard on you. Given the alleged pilot shortage, if we can contain costs now, or even reduce them, just think what we will be able to do when eventually the situation is reversed. Which it will be.
Nothing will interfere with our business plans, least of all an annoying group of lazy, semi-trained technicians. Sunday morning is our favorite time of the week. That is our board meeting day. We get to sit around and laugh at how easy it is to squeeze yet more work out of you for the same, or less, money. More work, less money equals bigger bonuses for us.
This is our first post. There will be others. You may notice the writing style change from post to post. That is because we will all be taking a turn. We all think the same. You have no chance.
Now re-read the title of this post again. You have been warned.
Thank you. Keep up the hard work. You have no option.
EK Management.
Let me be quite clear as to just what your standing is as far as us, your executive management and superiors, are concerned.
Minimal.
Another point that needs to be made very clear is just what we think of your opinions. We neither want nor seek your advice on any matter. We have not, do not and will not ever ask for your input on operational, technical or safety matters. We know best, and we can do what we like, when we like, how we like. You have no recourse, no means of changing anything. You will do as you are told. The sooner you accept this, the easier you will sleep. And sleep is what you are going to need, once our ULR flights start in earnest. Stand by for further adjustments to your Flight and Duty time Limits. We don’t consider them to be limits in any case. They are Flight and Duty time Targets. And you better believe how good our aim is.
An earlier post on PPRUNE, in connection with the provided Crew Rest Facility on the B777 stated that EK management has no respect for their pilots. That is 100% accurate. We, the executive management and your superiors, collectively extend our middle finger to all of you. The B777 Crew Rest you are forced to use was the absolute cheapest available. In fact, we had to authorize several million dollars per aircraft to remove the standard unit and replace it with your kennel down the back. We know it is unsuitable for rest. We know it is uncomfortable. We don’t care. It doesn’t affect us. Except for our bottom line. We will enjoy bigger bonuses. All on your backs. Thank you.
We have been interested to read some posts recently that suggest sagging morale. Good. That is just how we like it. The worse you feel, the easier our job is. Whilst you are busy concerning yourself with unimportant (and that includes each one of you individually) details, we are busy applying the screws. With unlimited resources, you would be amazed at just how inventive we can be in promulgating ‘cost neutral’ pay adjustments. They are not cost neutral. We make more money. You lose. Whilst you work harder.
Some of you seem to think that the current pilot shortage will work in your favor. You are wrong. We concede there is a pilot shortage of what we once considered acceptable standard. We are not anything if not adaptable. Standards will, and have been, altered. Some of you seem to think that the current pilot shortage will bring pressure on us, your superiors, to increase your compensation package. You are wrong. We will resist at all costs any meaningful increase in your remuneration. We have very deep pockets. You have no idea how deep. We will spend $10,000,000 to save $100,000 if it keeps you in line.
You think, because of your limited observations of the industry, that we will be forced to increase your package. Don’t be so ignorant. Your attention span is limited only to the here and now, maybe a couple of months into the future. We plan for the next 20 or 30 years. Now is the time to come down hard on you. Given the alleged pilot shortage, if we can contain costs now, or even reduce them, just think what we will be able to do when eventually the situation is reversed. Which it will be.
Nothing will interfere with our business plans, least of all an annoying group of lazy, semi-trained technicians. Sunday morning is our favorite time of the week. That is our board meeting day. We get to sit around and laugh at how easy it is to squeeze yet more work out of you for the same, or less, money. More work, less money equals bigger bonuses for us.
This is our first post. There will be others. You may notice the writing style change from post to post. That is because we will all be taking a turn. We all think the same. You have no chance.
Now re-read the title of this post again. You have been warned.
Thank you. Keep up the hard work. You have no option.
EK Management.
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nevertheless, what an interesting tack!!! and how potentially true was most of that???
management types had better take heed. that bit of writing is a consequence of neglect, abuse, incompetence, etc that never goes unnoticed to the ones who spearhead airline operations, the pilots.
the worst part is the truth in it.
management types had better take heed. that bit of writing is a consequence of neglect, abuse, incompetence, etc that never goes unnoticed to the ones who spearhead airline operations, the pilots.
the worst part is the truth in it.
short flights long nights
well..if nothing else..that should stop people coming.......
I really hope it is a wind up........
if not........
I really hope it is a wind up........
if not........
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That was hilarious
I loved it from someone who as near as damn it, can not possibly be a management in a grocery store in the “souq” let alone an airline like Emirates.
on the contrary, you will be amazed to know that management of all airlines are actually monitoring these forums and they do care about what is being said here. They know, and they care .
I loved it from someone who as near as damn it, can not possibly be a management in a grocery store in the “souq” let alone an airline like Emirates.
on the contrary, you will be amazed to know that management of all airlines are actually monitoring these forums and they do care about what is being said here. They know, and they care .
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As an outsider, let me tell you that the ONLY thing that still amazes me is that there are ANY pilots left on the entire planet who actually want to fly for this outfit!!! The poor suckers have absolutely no idea what they're getting into! Guys be VERY CAREFUL! If you're thinking of joining EK, THINK AGAIN! In the long run you will CERTAINLY regret it! Many a pilot has ruined his and his family's quality of life. Maybe not in the short term - but definately in the long term!
I have my doubts about the authenticity of the EKMan post but sadly according to the few friends I have left flying there - it's all true! (Most of them have already left! Some having given up flying altogether!)
Keep it up EK and you'll be sorry! You guys are busy shooting yourselves in the foot!
Treat your guys like sh*t and that's exactly what you'll get: SH*T - in more ways than one! Why has it always been so hard for you management types in most airlines, to get that!
I had the opportunity to join EK many years ago. THANK GOD I didn't take it! I'd rather lay bricks for a living than fly for you lot!
If that WAS indeed a wind up, I suggest the REAL EK management get involved here and make a statement to correct the damage that will surely be done by that post.
To the guys already there - you have my deepest sympathy! You guys deserve better, that's for sure!
I have my doubts about the authenticity of the EKMan post but sadly according to the few friends I have left flying there - it's all true! (Most of them have already left! Some having given up flying altogether!)
Keep it up EK and you'll be sorry! You guys are busy shooting yourselves in the foot!
Treat your guys like sh*t and that's exactly what you'll get: SH*T - in more ways than one! Why has it always been so hard for you management types in most airlines, to get that!
I had the opportunity to join EK many years ago. THANK GOD I didn't take it! I'd rather lay bricks for a living than fly for you lot!
If that WAS indeed a wind up, I suggest the REAL EK management get involved here and make a statement to correct the damage that will surely be done by that post.
To the guys already there - you have my deepest sympathy! You guys deserve better, that's for sure!
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I have observed among the EK pilots that there is a growing realisation as to how things are deteriorating rapidly in relation to remuneration for work.
Most have now absorbed the truth of the decreasing "real" salaries as belts are tightened and the little luxuries forsaken. Some of stories particularly from F/O's are tough. They never realised what it would actually cost to have a reasonable quality of life in Dubai.
The second car gets sold, the wife travels further afield to get the better prices, allowances are carefully watched as they now contribute to the monthly bills, kids activities are curbed, club memberships are dropped. The list goes on.
The reason people stay is varied. For many its the rating or command prospects. Others have defined exit points relating to a stage in kids schooling, processing of alternative employment, setting up a company, gaining immigration etc.
However the important point is that unlike before when the pilot mentality was to stay indefinitely, this has swung to looking forward to the day when objectives are met and they can move on away from the traffic and the inequitable and contemptious treatment.
The company will monitor this closely but I believe are at a risk of mistiming or being caught by some unforeseen event. Rather like an over exuberant stock market, someone suddenly shouts sell and all run for the door. This can be difficult to control.
In this case it takes time to actually leave, but if the basic groundwork has been prepared, EK may get an unpleasant surprise. Then those at the top will ask the middle why they did not see it coming.
Most have now absorbed the truth of the decreasing "real" salaries as belts are tightened and the little luxuries forsaken. Some of stories particularly from F/O's are tough. They never realised what it would actually cost to have a reasonable quality of life in Dubai.
The second car gets sold, the wife travels further afield to get the better prices, allowances are carefully watched as they now contribute to the monthly bills, kids activities are curbed, club memberships are dropped. The list goes on.
The reason people stay is varied. For many its the rating or command prospects. Others have defined exit points relating to a stage in kids schooling, processing of alternative employment, setting up a company, gaining immigration etc.
However the important point is that unlike before when the pilot mentality was to stay indefinitely, this has swung to looking forward to the day when objectives are met and they can move on away from the traffic and the inequitable and contemptious treatment.
The company will monitor this closely but I believe are at a risk of mistiming or being caught by some unforeseen event. Rather like an over exuberant stock market, someone suddenly shouts sell and all run for the door. This can be difficult to control.
In this case it takes time to actually leave, but if the basic groundwork has been prepared, EK may get an unpleasant surprise. Then those at the top will ask the middle why they did not see it coming.
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Everyone sees it coming, don't be fooled. It will be around mid 2009. As i have stated before, it's then when we will start paying to stay, so much will our renumeration have eroded. Allthough most of us have reasons to stay even through sh#t times, school, bonds etc. and allthough pilots eat a lot of sh#t just to fly the big one or get the fourth one, they are not fools. The moment it COSTS, thats when they leave. I've seen this before. Weaving that carrot in front of our noses works for a limited time. EK has run out of that option. No one believes even the "Dear Pilots" on their header no longer. Not even new joiners, they just underestimate what Dubai takes out of them. But the realisation period has shortened considerably. For us it took almost 3 years. The new ones take less than 3 months. I guess some will still stay, as at home it's still worse. But it will be tight by then.
I predict that another outfit will be prepared to offer some sort of offshore working conditions (commuting roster, faked basing or other) and will get the lot joining. Until they managed to screw them again.
I predict that another outfit will be prepared to offer some sort of offshore working conditions (commuting roster, faked basing or other) and will get the lot joining. Until they managed to screw them again.
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Looking at the worlds financial state today its very obvious we are descending into a tough recession. Its amazing to see so many asking whether there will be a recession! We are in it
Recession is always a bad time for airlines and pilots. This will be no exception. There will be no pilot shortage. Airlines will consolidate, a few will expand and a few will go bust.
Now the airlines will call the shots over how much they pay. EK will not say a thing about this years increases until the eleventh hour. They may not have to put it up much at all. All their pilots will agree its better to have a job and a paid roof over the head than posting off CV's to every operator still in business.
Recession is always a bad time for airlines and pilots. This will be no exception. There will be no pilot shortage. Airlines will consolidate, a few will expand and a few will go bust.
Now the airlines will call the shots over how much they pay. EK will not say a thing about this years increases until the eleventh hour. They may not have to put it up much at all. All their pilots will agree its better to have a job and a paid roof over the head than posting off CV's to every operator still in business.
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Reading the first post makes me believe in life after death. The ghost of Terry B**ands is still with us. (Anyone who has been in EK long enough to recall TB's (or were they Mrs TB's?) amem.. 'unique' letters to crew will see the similarities immediately.
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sad but true
A friend in EY who is management said the 1st thing r.h. does when he gets in the office in the morning is checking whats new on pprune, then he calls j.h. and reports whats new
on the brighter side,at least its better than visiting porn sites, or is it the other way round?
on the brighter side,at least its better than visiting porn sites, or is it the other way round?
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Recessions come and go. They always have. So will this one!
NO MATTER WHAT EK PAY - join them at your PERIL!
I know guys who joined EK in the early and mid 90's when the deal looked MUCH more attractive than it does now. They all went for fast command, big bucks and a good life style. Are they ever sorry now!! Without an exception, they'd all rather have stayed with their own country's airline if they could turn the clock back.
Most are divorced and starting their lives again - some doing something else for a living! I wont even go into what it's done to their families! Kids that are rootless and unstable and some even drug addicts!
And you STILL want to go to the desert? Good luck to you - you'll need it!
EK management - YOU are the ones being monitored! My bet is your silence will be deafening!
You have shown absolutely NO RESPECT for your pilots or their family's well-being and that is why I and many others will NEVER fly for you!
NO MATTER WHAT EK PAY - join them at your PERIL!
I know guys who joined EK in the early and mid 90's when the deal looked MUCH more attractive than it does now. They all went for fast command, big bucks and a good life style. Are they ever sorry now!! Without an exception, they'd all rather have stayed with their own country's airline if they could turn the clock back.
Most are divorced and starting their lives again - some doing something else for a living! I wont even go into what it's done to their families! Kids that are rootless and unstable and some even drug addicts!
And you STILL want to go to the desert? Good luck to you - you'll need it!
EK management - YOU are the ones being monitored! My bet is your silence will be deafening!
You have shown absolutely NO RESPECT for your pilots or their family's well-being and that is why I and many others will NEVER fly for you!
Last edited by congoman; 16th Jan 2008 at 04:40.
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Hi!
I was just reading about how bad Cathay is, and how some of the guys leaving there are going to EK.
So now BOTH Cathay and EK are crap? I was also reading that the Japan contract jobs are bad.
ALL the US majors are in turmoil over everyone merging.
It seems there are NO great jobs now for someone with an American/Canadian license.
I'm assumming that there are good European/Australian jobs available???
cliff
YYZ
I was just reading about how bad Cathay is, and how some of the guys leaving there are going to EK.
So now BOTH Cathay and EK are crap? I was also reading that the Japan contract jobs are bad.
ALL the US majors are in turmoil over everyone merging.
It seems there are NO great jobs now for someone with an American/Canadian license.
I'm assumming that there are good European/Australian jobs available???
cliff
YYZ
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Yep, 200% right
Talking about jobs, well, these days in Europe, EZY and Ryanair pay quite well and life is generally good, if you don't care of flying low cost.
Average 8000 € for an A320 capt in EZY 6 on 4 off 6 on 3 off and 80 hours.
Ryanair is a bit better but management seems to be a bit difficult to work with/for.
But have a look at EY/EK/QR management style.....Hummmm.... No comment same O'Leary style, but without the excuse of being on the financial edge of low cost carriers.
Netjets is to be considered as a new start but the drawbacks of Netjets appear to be the seldom good things of Middle east.
You don't know what you are doing inside your 6 days flying.... well in EY, you are on call 24/7, no better in QR. Slightly better in EK.
Hotel accomodation on lay over sometimes is average in Netjets, but on a seldom basis. In EY, they are nearly all below aviation standards. EK and QR no better.
Accomodation speaking, well in Europe, you have to pay for it, but at least you can choose not to live on a dumpster leaking at any rainfall, a few yards away from a screaming Mosque loudspeaker. Your mortgage won't be at 9 % interest rate but 4 or 5, which makes a huge difference, and furthermore, you are protected by laws in Europe..........not like in the sand pit.
Cost of living;....? Well this may be the only thing Middle east is learning quickly from the old world. Inflation is huge 10 % minimum up to 19 %.Thz only cheap thing is gas for your car. Car insurance are skyrocketing, as well as consumer primary products. Cars remain quite cheap, but restaurants, gym clubs, all the things expats do to make their life less miserable are getting more and more pricy.
Labour laws..... at least in Europe, freedom of speech isn't only a word... It's protected by laws..... You don't get a final warning on first call.....
Think EZY, Ryanair, Netjets, Globaljets, Vueling, even Wizzair..... a few ex QR are there, Eurofly, Air One, Flybaboo, XL ,Atlas blue etc....
Talking about jobs, well, these days in Europe, EZY and Ryanair pay quite well and life is generally good, if you don't care of flying low cost.
Average 8000 € for an A320 capt in EZY 6 on 4 off 6 on 3 off and 80 hours.
Ryanair is a bit better but management seems to be a bit difficult to work with/for.
But have a look at EY/EK/QR management style.....Hummmm.... No comment same O'Leary style, but without the excuse of being on the financial edge of low cost carriers.
Netjets is to be considered as a new start but the drawbacks of Netjets appear to be the seldom good things of Middle east.
You don't know what you are doing inside your 6 days flying.... well in EY, you are on call 24/7, no better in QR. Slightly better in EK.
Hotel accomodation on lay over sometimes is average in Netjets, but on a seldom basis. In EY, they are nearly all below aviation standards. EK and QR no better.
Accomodation speaking, well in Europe, you have to pay for it, but at least you can choose not to live on a dumpster leaking at any rainfall, a few yards away from a screaming Mosque loudspeaker. Your mortgage won't be at 9 % interest rate but 4 or 5, which makes a huge difference, and furthermore, you are protected by laws in Europe..........not like in the sand pit.
Cost of living;....? Well this may be the only thing Middle east is learning quickly from the old world. Inflation is huge 10 % minimum up to 19 %.Thz only cheap thing is gas for your car. Car insurance are skyrocketing, as well as consumer primary products. Cars remain quite cheap, but restaurants, gym clubs, all the things expats do to make their life less miserable are getting more and more pricy.
Labour laws..... at least in Europe, freedom of speech isn't only a word... It's protected by laws..... You don't get a final warning on first call.....
Think EZY, Ryanair, Netjets, Globaljets, Vueling, even Wizzair..... a few ex QR are there, Eurofly, Air One, Flybaboo, XL ,Atlas blue etc....
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Guys, it's satire and as all good satire does, contains more than a kernel of truth.
As far as the good old days at EK, I would have to differ with some. I really don't think that they have changed much. The guys running the airline are pretty much the same faces and they certainly keep the Flight Ops management on a pretty tight leash. When I joined 12 years ago, I was put in an absolute dump and when I complained was told that I could either leave or take the allowance (it wasn't good for much then either). The company then decided to unilaterally change the annual increment from 4% to 3% (the long term effects on my pay and savings were huge). A year later they decided to change part of my contract. I was called in and told to sign the change. When I replied that I didn't want to, I was told to either sign it or to tender my resignation as I would not be continuing employment. I was also told a few falsehoods at my interview regarding school allowances and the like. I understand that they are not above leaving out a few "important details" at the interview now.
To my way of thinking, not much has changed. The pay certainly has not kept pace with the cost of living but that has been mostly due to the falling dollar. The pay was never that great - it's just been in the last few years that a captain made more than $100,000 a year. They will do whatever they think that they can get away with to cut costs and increase profits. They are not stupid and have improved some things over the years, primarily because they had to. The average standard of pilot accommodation has definitely improved because in the late 90's, pilots stopped coming due to the poor standard of the villas. The frequency of the company messing with me (either through increased pay deductions due to "overpayment" or just changing my terms and conditions) has reduced - mostly due to the fact that they are in a sellers market for pilots and they know it. I have absolutely no illusion that any pay rise will be the absolute minimum that they can get away with and will be sold as more than it really is. I also have no illusion that should the market conditions change, that we can see more "cost-neutral" pay adjustments in the future. The company hasn't really changed. The upper management really hasn't changed. The only thing that has really changed are the market conditions and the number of pilots Emirates needs to recruit. In fact, I understand that the target numbers for the coming year are already being changed downwards, no doubt due to the inclusion of flight time factoring (and 24 hour layovers in IAH and GRU) in their calculations.
As far as the good old days at EK, I would have to differ with some. I really don't think that they have changed much. The guys running the airline are pretty much the same faces and they certainly keep the Flight Ops management on a pretty tight leash. When I joined 12 years ago, I was put in an absolute dump and when I complained was told that I could either leave or take the allowance (it wasn't good for much then either). The company then decided to unilaterally change the annual increment from 4% to 3% (the long term effects on my pay and savings were huge). A year later they decided to change part of my contract. I was called in and told to sign the change. When I replied that I didn't want to, I was told to either sign it or to tender my resignation as I would not be continuing employment. I was also told a few falsehoods at my interview regarding school allowances and the like. I understand that they are not above leaving out a few "important details" at the interview now.
To my way of thinking, not much has changed. The pay certainly has not kept pace with the cost of living but that has been mostly due to the falling dollar. The pay was never that great - it's just been in the last few years that a captain made more than $100,000 a year. They will do whatever they think that they can get away with to cut costs and increase profits. They are not stupid and have improved some things over the years, primarily because they had to. The average standard of pilot accommodation has definitely improved because in the late 90's, pilots stopped coming due to the poor standard of the villas. The frequency of the company messing with me (either through increased pay deductions due to "overpayment" or just changing my terms and conditions) has reduced - mostly due to the fact that they are in a sellers market for pilots and they know it. I have absolutely no illusion that any pay rise will be the absolute minimum that they can get away with and will be sold as more than it really is. I also have no illusion that should the market conditions change, that we can see more "cost-neutral" pay adjustments in the future. The company hasn't really changed. The upper management really hasn't changed. The only thing that has really changed are the market conditions and the number of pilots Emirates needs to recruit. In fact, I understand that the target numbers for the coming year are already being changed downwards, no doubt due to the inclusion of flight time factoring (and 24 hour layovers in IAH and GRU) in their calculations.