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QR facts for the upgrades

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

QR facts for the upgrades

Old 3rd Jan 2008, 21:44
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: africa
Posts: 22
QR facts for the upgrades

Dear friends let be more realistic:
1) The upgrades has been stoped since April, 2007. The July batch still waiting for their interview, Octuber and December nothing!!!!!!!!! rumors the Flight Operation Depart. blame the CEO. for make them wait for his aproval.
2) The flight operation depart. don't care what is going on , they just want to now what it going to happen to them.
3) Nobody now if the flight operation depart. will upgrade people in the A330 in the future so if this not happen the max they can do is 2 / month, actual waiting list 38 + december list ?= ? .
4) The last batch will finish the training inshalla in May 2008.

So if you like stories you can belive whatever they are going to tell you but math are simple and don't lie like the FOD.
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 09:04
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
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Just for info the last Qatar airways FL ops review from Dec 2007 mention:
..."Contrary to what you have been hearing,the command upgrade did NOT stop ...."....

I personnaly known some friends who passed the interview 6 months ago..and than nothing......

Let´s say..it has been suspended for a while.......
loc22550 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2008, 12:38
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DUBAI
Posts: 7
upgrade situation not acceptable in qr

The policy in qr concerning the upgrade is not acceptable ,its actually becoming ridiculus if you conpare it with emirates or ethiad;
experienced fo who joined emirates and ethiad at the same period are already captains since 6 months ago ;for us in qr , we do not have valuable informations ,maybe an additional 2 years comparing it with ethiad or emirates ,anyways you cannot compare for shour in this matter ,training departement has to be blame for this issue.
Firsteagle is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2008, 09:34
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
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Well, a lot of FOs gave them untill this month in order to get news about a decision.

If they (mngmnt) continue to play hide and seek and keeping their mouths shut, most of these guys will leave before summertime.

lets wait and see.....

Not much credit left if you ask me...
Qatari515 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2008, 10:31
  #5 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: africa
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I want to now what is the diference ( if there is a diference ) between stoped and suspended ?. So LOC 22550, i now the management like to play word games in order to keep the people waiting and waiting.
I whope they can read this thread and understand that the only way to keep the F/O waiting, is to treat them as a professional, adults, tell them the true , give them the right information , let them decide to live or stay.
Most of them have the feeling that the training department did not have any clue how to solve this mess. So a lot are taking the decision to leave before it is to late.
First Eagle is right , the F/Os who leave two years ago are CAPT. all ready!!!, so act quick ,because the planes coming soon !!!!!!!

aaaaaah and don't lie please.
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Old 6th Jan 2008, 18:02
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
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For me ...no difference between stoped or suspended....
Was just wondering who is right or wrong.....regarding this upgrade problem...?
loc22550 is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2008, 23:48
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: qatar
Age: 52
Posts: 203
Smile upgrade

Its not suspended its stoped !! Did anyone saw someone in office this days who can tell you any valid info ??? NO Becouse all this people do talking of some new virtual management and no one want to take decision and make move scareed for own ass !
A Johar ( am working on it )
S.Sandep ( its all up to upper managemant)
H Fadji ( yes we are doing oure best )
Modar ( o it will be big changes soon )
A.Qush ( 777 is the best/ **** the rest )
Riad Halabi ( naw since am in office desert will be green )
Richard N ( if am in office you would all be captians by naw )

There is no CP or CT which will tell true :
THERE IS NO PROMOTIONS,NO FLEET TRANSF. NOTHING WITHOUT CEO s approval . And CEO is this days busy searching for guy who started on TV and radio talking true about QR and busy chacking if CC was picked by man in front of QR TWR and busy with new cameras instaled so see ther are things to do with higher priority then upgrades !!!
CEO PITA is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2008, 05:07
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Middle East
Posts: 69
Many letters went out yesterday for the upgrade Interview, Selection and others...................................................
Safari Goat is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2008, 05:51
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: qatar
Age: 52
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letters

Letters are going out long time a go and without HIM its on HOLD . Already 48 f/s waiting ? What do you think how long it take to finish 48 capt ? 1 y !!!
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Old 8th Jan 2008, 05:54
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 104
Mr S. Goat,

Do you know whether this Pita Bread character is getting a letter? If so, he won't need the training course as he knows everything.

GB
oryxbollocks is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2008, 14:36
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 91
First, SNAM Part A is as good as depending on who is being upgraded or who did the mistake and will come with all the punishment for a very silly situation . (open jacket, No hat, Gay CS doesnt like you etc...), and the best thing if you are in the narrow body your CP is afraid to defend you in front of anyone (think he is afraid of Srylankans from the tower)

Second The upgrade selections for the first 4 or 5 months of 2008 are SUSPENDED, yes read it and weep.

Makes sense they already have 60 + guys who fill the requirements, and they will not be able to train them in the remaining days of 2008.

So basically now the already "senior F/O" in the company is facing an extra 18 months flying with captains half of his flight time, and half of his language proficiency etc.......(dont want to hurt nobodys feelings)

and a new joiner as f/o with more than 5000 hrs is looking at a nice 6 years extra in the right seat.

just my two cents, and i think i am speaking the truth not just trying to put down an already shity airline
PIPE RIDER is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2008, 18:06
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: on the rocks
Posts: 111
Hot topic upgrade, isn't it? Well so far I think everyone has received the selection letter after almost two months of waiting. Fair enough, it can be written off to the account of "political instability". Let's see chronologically 3,6 years and the selection is done, if lucky 4 years and upgrade becomes reality. As far as I understand no one has managed to be upgraded in just 3 years. Average time is 4 years since being checked out and released on the line. About a long waiting list, I really don't know how is that supposed to work. Possible solutions upgrades on A330 or B777 apart from A320. Another option is to outsource the upgrade training in order to relief the training department and the sims. Anyway, let's keep the readers updated. I can imagine whole lot of new hires and outsiders would like to know more, so do I.

Don't take it personally, take it on the rocks.
Smirnoff N21 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2008, 18:07
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
Posts: 372
Pipe rider is absolutely correct.

Management, as predicted, is using the upgrades as a carrott to trick FOs into staying longer.

Almost 30 guys received a letter last month, saying they where selected for an upgrade interview but without an exact date. We all knows what that means....

18 guys where allready waiting before them....

2 upgrades/month.....

Thats 2 years waiting if you are allready selected.

If you look at the latest ops review, you know exactly why management does not see upgrades as a priority.

A330

223 Captains
177 First Officers

A320

112 Captains
090 First Officers

A300

52 Captains
35 First Officers

In 2007 239 pilots joined, of which 124 where captains, 105 FOs and 10 second officers.

So QR must be one of the only airlines with a huge surplus of Captains and a chronical shortage of ( especially experienced) F/Os. For a predominantly long haul airline, these numbers between Capt and FO should be exactly the other way around...

Which is why upgrades are the very very last priority...and why they are using carrots to keep F/Os here..

So observe and draw your conclusions.....
Qatari515 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2008, 20:28
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Far Side
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not just trying to put down an already shity airline. 10th January 2008 19:35
Your words are nothing immoral Pipe Rider. The Goat is an Aviation Management Abomination and should have been aborted years ago.

Hey, maybe if we all work together we can choke it to death??

Last edited by Black Stain; 14th Jan 2008 at 10:32. Reason: quotation marks
Black Stain is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2008, 21:15
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DUBAI
Posts: 7
Cadets,sfo=same Results

join QR todays as CADETS , After 6 years, 6 X 900 hours per YEARS = 5400 hours ,that is the requirement to be elligible for command upgrade .
join QR with 6000 hours including 4000 jet time , you still have to wait 6 years according the seniority list to be elligible for your command ,you will get 11400 hours including 9400 hours jet time but the first one will get upgrade before you ;
So join QR if you have little experience ,and for SFO with jet time do not come here ,you will wait ages before be upgraded ,but this is on the second one that the Airline base the safety of the Airline not the cadets .
Where is the logic ,there is no logic for Experienced FO joining QR for his upgrade.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!better joining a low cost airline and come direct as commander ,much much faster
one more info ,QR will be in COLOMBO next week ,road show for direct entry captain 320 / 330 .
You are right upgrade is not a priority here in QR , Employing experienced FO and delay there command upgrade ,that is the priority for them !
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Old 23rd Jan 2008, 23:20
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Potential joiners coming to QR as First Officers need to realise the airline now has 60 aircraft, 800 Pilots and a long seniority list. If your only reason for joining is to become a Captain in 3 years it isn't going to happen, it will take you 6 or more.

Don't waste your time coming here if the left seat is what you want in a hurry. It will save you a big headache and hassle locating here, and save me a big headache listening to you.

SO DON'T SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED.
cavelino rampante is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2008, 06:33
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: on the rocks
Posts: 111
Apart from warning shots the latest news:
Some of the guys went already for the interview out of order. Nobody knows why? Good for them. The rest is waiting. Nobody knows why and how much longer. I guess the new CPT together with rest have to figure out something new or it just takes time to establish at the new place.
Don't take it personally, take it on the rocks.
Smirnoff N21 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2008, 07:03
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 45
All this talk about command blah blah blah. Smart pilot doesn't care how many stripes on my shoulders, only how many zeros in my bank account.

So was it a bad move to come here because maybe I can go to Ryanair or Air Asia and get upgrade after 2 years, instead of waiting 4 or 5 at QR? Yay now I'm a Ryanair captain living in the most expensive country in the world (England) and taking home maybe £4000 a month after tax and spending 3/4 of that on rent and petrol, and working like a dog compared to long haul FO. Lucky guy, at least I got those precious 4 stripes though huh. Of course I'd like command but come on guys, look in the mirror and admit that FO/SFO in QR, is still a much better financial deal than capt at half the other airlines in the world. So to say to all these guys don't come don't come, because of uncertainty with command upgrade, it's not really going to impress them you know.

You also forget that many of these DE captains are age +60 guys who won't be here in 3 years, and many others will leave just as quickly as they arrived when they get a better offer back in their home countries, or wife gets sick of Doha.

Upgrade will happen when it happens, you can't know what will happen in 3 weeks time in aviation let alone 3 or 5 years. Same in QR as any other airline.

Last edited by Ajax; 24th Jan 2008 at 07:32.
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Old 24th Jan 2008, 12:17
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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VERY WELL SAID!!!..... money talks BS walks
piloton is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2008, 17:22
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: on the rocks
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It doesn't matter how many stripes whatsoever though sometimes it can save your life but let's put that aside. You're however entirely missing the point here, my friend. It's about giving the choice to the individual as well as respecting certain industry standards. Most of guys came over here for a purpose of money and career progression. Some of us do manage to enjoy their lives in one or the other way.
Now, giving the choice means clearly reveal a plan (non compulsory) saying that's the situation. Your number is 47 to go and we predict you'll start your course in 12 months for instance. That's it. It's up to the individual then to decide whether to stay or to pursue the 4 bars elsewhere.
By the way talking about greenback. The sooner one gets command the more 0000 will be on your account in the end. Thus command and money are correlated. For the time being guys are held in the dark for many reasons one of them is f/o shortage.
Industry standard is to have more experienced commanders than f/o otherwise the collaborative atmosphere is rendered somewhat difficult.
Very experienced and mature f/o are sometimes more obstructive than helpful cause they are frustrated thus resulting in possible tension and steepening in gradient. I'm sure you know what I mean.
Last but not least come over here before you start judging and then we shall see.
Don't take it personally, take it on the rocks.
Smirnoff N21 is offline  

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