SIA Cargo or Etihad 767 ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: All over
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SIA Cargo or Etihad 767 ?
Good Day !
I have an offer from SIA Cargo 744 DEC and a good prospect
for EY 767 DEC with eventual progress to 777.
I am from southern Europe.
Can some body shed in some advice?
Happy 2006.
I have an offer from SIA Cargo 744 DEC and a good prospect
for EY 767 DEC with eventual progress to 777.
I am from southern Europe.
Can some body shed in some advice?
Happy 2006.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just my opinion, that's all!
SIA is an up and running airline, it has it's faults but it is quite well run and will be in existence long after you retire from flying.
Can't comment on Etihad, Middle East airlines seem to start off very well then go down hill but that doesn't have to happen.
Can't comment on Etihad, Middle East airlines seem to start off very well then go down hill but that doesn't have to happen.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: ORD - Oil Rich Den
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Etihad seems to be backed up with loads of money. Appears to expanding fast, money is good and tax free. However everything & everyone in the ME is short fused. It could all change with the blink of an eye, or you could work & retire with a nice pile in your nest! It`s anyones guess which way it will go.
SIA on the other hand is here for the long run. A well run company and stable as the best in the world. Singapore as a city itself has plenty to offer, heaven, compared to any place in the ME. Locals are much more decent than the Arabs. Everything is done with efficiency, unlike the ME where it`s total chaos. What will bite your pouch in Singapore will be the tax & everything is rather expensive.
SIA on the other hand is here for the long run. A well run company and stable as the best in the world. Singapore as a city itself has plenty to offer, heaven, compared to any place in the ME. Locals are much more decent than the Arabs. Everything is done with efficiency, unlike the ME where it`s total chaos. What will bite your pouch in Singapore will be the tax & everything is rather expensive.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a no-brainer, SIA for sure. Got some mates who have joined a while ago and they all like it.
The tax is no broblem because the bonus will take care of it and it's not alot anyway.
The bottom line is Singapore is a much better place to live and you will take home more money.
Good luck. See you there! Happy new year.
The tax is no broblem because the bonus will take care of it and it's not alot anyway.
The bottom line is Singapore is a much better place to live and you will take home more money.
Good luck. See you there! Happy new year.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alcatraz
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Banjul,
This is what I gathered within the past few weeks for my upcoming interview at SIA Cargo in 2006
Pilots at SIA C seem happier than those at Etihad. The forums show that Etihad pilots have a number of complaints while SIA C expats do not complain much.
You need to consider the distance from home, which is in favour og Abu Dhabi. If you take your family with you Singapore may mean long days of separation as the turn around times average 13 days per trip.
Singapore is more civilized but it may be more expensive. School fees are high and the company's assistance covers 60-80%. while Etihad covers more than that. Especiallyif you have more than 2 children ,Etihad are better in this regardd.
Vacation is better at Etihad.You have better freedom of ID travel at Etihad.
AT SIA C this is almost non-existent as you travel on ID 75 of an expensive econ class fare and it does not include a third child.
I believe you have made comparisons of the pay, taxes and other benifits.
You can check this & the other replies against your priorities.
I hope this helps
Good luck
Sam
This is what I gathered within the past few weeks for my upcoming interview at SIA Cargo in 2006
Pilots at SIA C seem happier than those at Etihad. The forums show that Etihad pilots have a number of complaints while SIA C expats do not complain much.
You need to consider the distance from home, which is in favour og Abu Dhabi. If you take your family with you Singapore may mean long days of separation as the turn around times average 13 days per trip.
Singapore is more civilized but it may be more expensive. School fees are high and the company's assistance covers 60-80%. while Etihad covers more than that. Especiallyif you have more than 2 children ,Etihad are better in this regardd.
Vacation is better at Etihad.You have better freedom of ID travel at Etihad.
AT SIA C this is almost non-existent as you travel on ID 75 of an expensive econ class fare and it does not include a third child.
I believe you have made comparisons of the pay, taxes and other benifits.
You can check this & the other replies against your priorities.
I hope this helps
Good luck
Sam
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SIAC patterns etc
In response to a recent query about days off - it varies.
Of one thing you can be sure: using cargo flights to commute home is not an option.
There is no provision for it and though we'd like it to be otherwise, there is no prospect for this to change.
Days off depend on the roster, which can see you on a 14 day pattern or a two day pattern. There is enough time off not to worry too much; perhaps 10 a month at least.
Flying varies, but you can bank on 50 hours per month. Not all of that is stick-time. We do a lot of augmenting, which is a bit of a surprise initially.
The big issue is the amount of positioning, for which we are not paid. You may find yourself positioning 30 hours a month.
On the bright side, the Singaporeans are very welcoming, the airline is extremely well run, the city is clean and mostly free of crime, your wife will not be mentally undressed by leering 'guest workers' as she walks about, your kids will go to good schools, most of whose fees are met by the Company, and you will always be paid on time.
Good luck in making an informed decision.
Of one thing you can be sure: using cargo flights to commute home is not an option.
There is no provision for it and though we'd like it to be otherwise, there is no prospect for this to change.
Days off depend on the roster, which can see you on a 14 day pattern or a two day pattern. There is enough time off not to worry too much; perhaps 10 a month at least.
Flying varies, but you can bank on 50 hours per month. Not all of that is stick-time. We do a lot of augmenting, which is a bit of a surprise initially.
The big issue is the amount of positioning, for which we are not paid. You may find yourself positioning 30 hours a month.
On the bright side, the Singaporeans are very welcoming, the airline is extremely well run, the city is clean and mostly free of crime, your wife will not be mentally undressed by leering 'guest workers' as she walks about, your kids will go to good schools, most of whose fees are met by the Company, and you will always be paid on time.
Good luck in making an informed decision.
Last edited by 4PW's; 24th Jan 2006 at 12:28.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 4PW's
Good luck in making an informed decision.
According to my experience, I should initially fly as F/O before being trained as captain. With all the experience and qualified captains on the market, I estimate my chances as very thin. But I'll send my cv and see what's coming on .
Thanks again.
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Days off in Singapore
There is one more thing I should clarify.
A previous poster suggested you'd often be away for 13 days at a stretch.
Though I'm sure it was not meant to be, that's a bit misleading.
An actual four week period sees me in Singapore with 14 days off, completely free of duty.
Another period had me off for nine days in three weeks.
This is more regular than being away 13 days, turning about in three and going off again, with both yourself and the family spinning like a top.
On the subject of a Command: there is absolutely no question that if you have the experience and show the ability necessary for the responsibilities of Command, you will be training for it in exactly three years.
This new provision for expat F/Os to upgrade to Command in three years requires the F/O to have previous Command experience, albeit insufficient for a Direct Entry Command.
However, beware that should you not have any Command experience on large or small jets upon joining, you will not qualify for the very, very new concept on offer - a three year F/O expat position followed by Command training on local conditions, should you pass.
Going from an expat contract to a local contract means, precisely, no housing or educational assistance.
You should also be aware that if you were to come here without any Command experience to join as an expat contracted First Officer there is very little chance for you to be upgraded.
Nothwithstanding the above, to be considered for Command an expat F/O must go off the expat contract onto a local contract, wait roughly five more years on local terms as an F/O before going into the Command pool to wait in line behind more qualified and better placed Singaporeans who, as expected, are considered before expat F/Os on local contracts.
That's the way it is now.
Like everything else in life, it's all about making an informed decision.
Yet, ending on a bright note, Cargo is in a rampant growth phase.
SIAC needs 180 Captains and 180 First Officers, now. Current strength is a mere 80 plus 50 respectively, or thereabouts.
I hope this makes things clearer for you and others.
You could certainly do worse........
A previous poster suggested you'd often be away for 13 days at a stretch.
Though I'm sure it was not meant to be, that's a bit misleading.
An actual four week period sees me in Singapore with 14 days off, completely free of duty.
Another period had me off for nine days in three weeks.
This is more regular than being away 13 days, turning about in three and going off again, with both yourself and the family spinning like a top.
On the subject of a Command: there is absolutely no question that if you have the experience and show the ability necessary for the responsibilities of Command, you will be training for it in exactly three years.
This new provision for expat F/Os to upgrade to Command in three years requires the F/O to have previous Command experience, albeit insufficient for a Direct Entry Command.
However, beware that should you not have any Command experience on large or small jets upon joining, you will not qualify for the very, very new concept on offer - a three year F/O expat position followed by Command training on local conditions, should you pass.
Going from an expat contract to a local contract means, precisely, no housing or educational assistance.
You should also be aware that if you were to come here without any Command experience to join as an expat contracted First Officer there is very little chance for you to be upgraded.
Nothwithstanding the above, to be considered for Command an expat F/O must go off the expat contract onto a local contract, wait roughly five more years on local terms as an F/O before going into the Command pool to wait in line behind more qualified and better placed Singaporeans who, as expected, are considered before expat F/Os on local contracts.
That's the way it is now.
Like everything else in life, it's all about making an informed decision.
Yet, ending on a bright note, Cargo is in a rampant growth phase.
SIAC needs 180 Captains and 180 First Officers, now. Current strength is a mere 80 plus 50 respectively, or thereabouts.
I hope this makes things clearer for you and others.
You could certainly do worse........
Last edited by 4PW's; 24th Jan 2006 at 21:47.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi PW
180 captains? To fly just 40 to 55 hrs/month as currently?
And why has it been so difficult to find qualified pilots? Working conditions? Poor wages and benefits compared to mainline? High minimum experience required? Hard interview and selection process? Training bond?
... and what is SIAC going to do to get more DEC? Any chance to move to SIA mainline, in the future?
By the way, does anybody know if EY is looking for non type rated (i.e. 777 or 330) captains?
Thanks
180 captains? To fly just 40 to 55 hrs/month as currently?
And why has it been so difficult to find qualified pilots? Working conditions? Poor wages and benefits compared to mainline? High minimum experience required? Hard interview and selection process? Training bond?
... and what is SIAC going to do to get more DEC? Any chance to move to SIA mainline, in the future?
By the way, does anybody know if EY is looking for non type rated (i.e. 777 or 330) captains?
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whoa, big fella!
The reason for the large numbers is down to the growth of cargo on the one hand, and the imperative for us to be an entirely separate company from mainline, who provides us with the vast majority of pilots to fly the cargo services.
The difficulty in finding people springs from a lack of qualified pilots on the market (unattached to major airlines).
As stated earlier, working conditions are fine and certainly superior to many airlines I and my colleagues have worked at.
Though the benefits are not as sound as with mainline, they are hardly poor. The money is never right, but for 'my money' the difficulty resides is the number of job options being offered qualified people, with SIA being just one of many.
The minimum experience of 7,000 hours total time of which at least 3000 is as PIC on a widebody is consistent with the market, insurance requirements, and the actual operation we are involved in.
Difficult interview? I wouldn't say it was difficult at all. Mine took 15 minutes, the sim took half an hour and then there was the medical. You either have the qualifications on paper or you don't. To not have them is to not be invited for an interview in the first instance. SIA doesn't waste money, on anything.
All that remains then is to invite the candidate to Singapore, ensure he fits the picture presented in the documents, of which the airline is very stringent as, suprise surprise, aviation has its share of charlatans, then pass the candidate on to the pilots for interview. This is all done pre-interview, as indicated. If your stated details are not supported by original testimonials, you don't even get to the interview.
Fifteen minutes of face time with senior pilots usually suffices in determining whether or not you're likely to start cursing your employer or things in general. One or three probes on your knowledge of the job is usually enough to identify a genuine, authentic candidate.
Training bond as a problem?
Possibly. It's an unattractive feature, no doubt about that. Yet I'm not sure it actually limits interest.
There's no movement to mainline as the B747 is being retired from the airline's passenger services.
Good luck.
The reason for the large numbers is down to the growth of cargo on the one hand, and the imperative for us to be an entirely separate company from mainline, who provides us with the vast majority of pilots to fly the cargo services.
The difficulty in finding people springs from a lack of qualified pilots on the market (unattached to major airlines).
As stated earlier, working conditions are fine and certainly superior to many airlines I and my colleagues have worked at.
Though the benefits are not as sound as with mainline, they are hardly poor. The money is never right, but for 'my money' the difficulty resides is the number of job options being offered qualified people, with SIA being just one of many.
The minimum experience of 7,000 hours total time of which at least 3000 is as PIC on a widebody is consistent with the market, insurance requirements, and the actual operation we are involved in.
Difficult interview? I wouldn't say it was difficult at all. Mine took 15 minutes, the sim took half an hour and then there was the medical. You either have the qualifications on paper or you don't. To not have them is to not be invited for an interview in the first instance. SIA doesn't waste money, on anything.
All that remains then is to invite the candidate to Singapore, ensure he fits the picture presented in the documents, of which the airline is very stringent as, suprise surprise, aviation has its share of charlatans, then pass the candidate on to the pilots for interview. This is all done pre-interview, as indicated. If your stated details are not supported by original testimonials, you don't even get to the interview.
Fifteen minutes of face time with senior pilots usually suffices in determining whether or not you're likely to start cursing your employer or things in general. One or three probes on your knowledge of the job is usually enough to identify a genuine, authentic candidate.
Training bond as a problem?
Possibly. It's an unattractive feature, no doubt about that. Yet I'm not sure it actually limits interest.
There's no movement to mainline as the B747 is being retired from the airline's passenger services.
Good luck.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 4PW's
On the subject of a Command: there is absolutely no question that if you have the experience and show the ability necessary for the responsibilities of Command, you will be training for it in exactly three years.
This new provision for expat F/Os to upgrade to Command in three years requires the F/O to have previous Command experience, albeit insufficient for a Direct Entry Command.
This new provision for expat F/Os to upgrade to Command in three years requires the F/O to have previous Command experience, albeit insufficient for a Direct Entry Command.
In fact, my flying experience totals around 10.000hrs with more than 8.000 in command on various type including 6.000 as 737-3/4/500 captain. But my long range experience is limited to 1000hrs on C-130 Hercules...
If I have a good understanding of what you wrote, this would anyway mean 3years as F/O before thinking of a command position under a local contract conditions?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JP4 Why apply to SQ Cargo as a F/O and risk not getting upgraded ( Has anyone told you what the upgrade at SQ is like!!?? It goes on for a year sometimes!!) when you have the qualifications to join Emirates as a DEC on the B777?
Once you are in SQ as a F/O you are there for over 5 years from being checked out under the terms of your Bond. There is no great incentive for SQ to give you a command as it is easier for them to get Captains than F/O's
Once you are in SQ as a F/O you are there for over 5 years from being checked out under the terms of your Bond. There is no great incentive for SQ to give you a command as it is easier for them to get Captains than F/O's
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JP4 - Have you applied to join SQ Cargo as a Captain? If you haven't then, if they are very short, they might consider you, 4PW will have a better take on that than me but it may be worth a shot.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's an SIAC pilot who, before joining SIA, went from a wide body B767 Command in Asia to a
B737 F/O position in Australia. After 2 years in the land of milk and honey, he found the job and package untenable and so applied to join SQ Cargo as a B747 DEC.
He's checked out and on the line.
On the other hand, there is the prospect of joining as a First Officer. If you join as a F/O you are taking quite a big risk.
Nonetheless, there is a brand new provision for suitably qualified F/Os to be hired and upgraded in three years on the basis of their joining experience, which would be just shy of that required for a Direct Entry Command.
For those in this position, I tend to think SIAC would keep their side of the bargain. Yet as Millerscourt points out, the upgrade in SQ is a very involved process. Still, what airline's upgrade process isn't?
JP4, your experience suggests a DEC position.
You may care to give the Cargo office a ring. They're a very pleasant lot, and though I can't speak for anyone there, I'm sure the appropriate people would be happy to talk to you, given time constraints.
Sorry, but I'm not sure I should be offering names or numbers.
B737 F/O position in Australia. After 2 years in the land of milk and honey, he found the job and package untenable and so applied to join SQ Cargo as a B747 DEC.
He's checked out and on the line.
On the other hand, there is the prospect of joining as a First Officer. If you join as a F/O you are taking quite a big risk.
Nonetheless, there is a brand new provision for suitably qualified F/Os to be hired and upgraded in three years on the basis of their joining experience, which would be just shy of that required for a Direct Entry Command.
For those in this position, I tend to think SIAC would keep their side of the bargain. Yet as Millerscourt points out, the upgrade in SQ is a very involved process. Still, what airline's upgrade process isn't?
JP4, your experience suggests a DEC position.
You may care to give the Cargo office a ring. They're a very pleasant lot, and though I can't speak for anyone there, I'm sure the appropriate people would be happy to talk to you, given time constraints.
Sorry, but I'm not sure I should be offering names or numbers.
Last edited by 4PW's; 25th Jan 2006 at 23:05.