Gulf Air 320 Rostering!!!!
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Gulf Air 320 Rostering!!!!
Whats happened to the rostering Department?
It seems chaos is reigning! I used to fly Corporate Aviation and had less roster changes than what I have now.
5 changes in 30 hours must be some type of record!
Why dont they just give us our Days off each month and leave the rest of the roster blank and tell us to expect anything...
I remember a recent email... "the last few months of this year will be far more organised, easier and thanks for the hard work through the summer etc...""
It's a shame with such a young, keen bunch of guys employed in the past year that would love nothing more than to see some type of 'livable' career pattern, it seems the exodus is imminent... a loss to the Company. At the end of the day, one can only take so much B#$%hit.
Is it really asking too much to expect a reasonably stable roster with minimal changes in a modern "21st Century" airline given the masses of software at our disposal these days to organise such things?
It seems chaos is reigning! I used to fly Corporate Aviation and had less roster changes than what I have now.
5 changes in 30 hours must be some type of record!
Why dont they just give us our Days off each month and leave the rest of the roster blank and tell us to expect anything...
I remember a recent email... "the last few months of this year will be far more organised, easier and thanks for the hard work through the summer etc...""
It's a shame with such a young, keen bunch of guys employed in the past year that would love nothing more than to see some type of 'livable' career pattern, it seems the exodus is imminent... a loss to the Company. At the end of the day, one can only take so much B#$%hit.
Is it really asking too much to expect a reasonably stable roster with minimal changes in a modern "21st Century" airline given the masses of software at our disposal these days to organise such things?
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Yes, I have to agree on this one. I met many guys "fatigued" of these last weeks of wild-roster-change with fly-as-much-as-you-can-with-minimum-rest...
After having a busy summer, it seems that we will have a busy fall-winter season...
BD
After having a busy summer, it seems that we will have a busy fall-winter season...
BD
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So with all these irregularities in the flow of the operations with regard to crew sched, what is really happening guys?
Trag wrote:
It's a shame with such a young, keen bunch of guys employed in the past year that would love nothing more than to see some type of 'livable' career pattern, it seems the exodus is imminent... a loss to the Company. At the end of the day, one can only take so much B#$%hit.
Is Gulf Air on shakey ground? The reason I am asking is I am about to make a move to GF . I just don't want to be caught in a bad situation.
And when will they be announcing the new fleet order and will it actually materialize with the unpredicatable trend of events?
thanx in advance .......
Trag wrote:
It's a shame with such a young, keen bunch of guys employed in the past year that would love nothing more than to see some type of 'livable' career pattern, it seems the exodus is imminent... a loss to the Company. At the end of the day, one can only take so much B#$%hit.
Is Gulf Air on shakey ground? The reason I am asking is I am about to make a move to GF . I just don't want to be caught in a bad situation.
And when will they be announcing the new fleet order and will it actually materialize with the unpredicatable trend of events?
thanx in advance .......
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You're right Trag, things really have gotten out of hand, and I can't see any obvious reason for it.
Are they just taking the p!ss? Is it just due to inept crew controllers tinkering and the inevitable knock on effect that creates? Are they publishing rosters in which not all flights are covered, therefore knowing there is going to be subsequent mayhem.
Cmon people, you have got to sort this problem out. It is reaching chronic proportions and the way it is being managed (or mismanaged in this case) is certainly not creating any friends. I am not a whinger, but all the talk these days is about how worn out/p!ssed off/disillusioned the troops are. I draw the line when it starts to effect my home life. Its reached that point. I only work to live, not the other way around.
As I said, the situation has got to be managed. If there is some issue than cant be resolved within a reasonable timeframe, then tell us. Put the cards on the table, treat your people with some respect. Explain whats going on, ask us to cooperate as best we can. You might be suprised.
A telex under the door while I'm min rest in hotac, or an ACARS on the second to last sector, telling me (not asking), that I will now not be home for another couple of days, does not create warm and fuzzies. This is the norm, it happens too often, and its this disdain that is displayed towards us is what really rubs salt into the wound.
People will leave. What a waste.
Mr GF, you have spent money, time and effort training us to fly your aeroplanes, why push us away? You will just have to do it all over again with someone else. Treat them the same, and they too will leave. And you wonder why sickness is through the roof?
Ps
To anybody considering typing "welcome to the middle east buddy", don't bother - I'm not as fresh as you may think.
Are they just taking the p!ss? Is it just due to inept crew controllers tinkering and the inevitable knock on effect that creates? Are they publishing rosters in which not all flights are covered, therefore knowing there is going to be subsequent mayhem.
Cmon people, you have got to sort this problem out. It is reaching chronic proportions and the way it is being managed (or mismanaged in this case) is certainly not creating any friends. I am not a whinger, but all the talk these days is about how worn out/p!ssed off/disillusioned the troops are. I draw the line when it starts to effect my home life. Its reached that point. I only work to live, not the other way around.
As I said, the situation has got to be managed. If there is some issue than cant be resolved within a reasonable timeframe, then tell us. Put the cards on the table, treat your people with some respect. Explain whats going on, ask us to cooperate as best we can. You might be suprised.
A telex under the door while I'm min rest in hotac, or an ACARS on the second to last sector, telling me (not asking), that I will now not be home for another couple of days, does not create warm and fuzzies. This is the norm, it happens too often, and its this disdain that is displayed towards us is what really rubs salt into the wound.
People will leave. What a waste.
Mr GF, you have spent money, time and effort training us to fly your aeroplanes, why push us away? You will just have to do it all over again with someone else. Treat them the same, and they too will leave. And you wonder why sickness is through the roof?
Ps
To anybody considering typing "welcome to the middle east buddy", don't bother - I'm not as fresh as you may think.
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Don't tell me this is another company that treats it's employees like crap.
If anyone is listening at Crew sked or what ever they call it there.
RESPECT is a two way street.
You will be very surprised how people react if you talk TO them and not AT them.
This concept is not new yet I've yet to find a company that practices it.
If anyone is listening at Crew sked or what ever they call it there.
RESPECT is a two way street.
You will be very surprised how people react if you talk TO them and not AT them.
This concept is not new yet I've yet to find a company that practices it.
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Here Here!! DC, and Tram. Good posts. Perhaps the rostering dept has it's reasons, but no-one is told why? It's just not good enough. The Capt's also getting to do F/O duties as well, is also becoming a nightmare. Wasn't employed as an F/O. , so don't feel I should have to do double duties. Perhaps understandable at the moment because of 767 up-grades, but is it affecting the other fleets as well? What about the travel days once given before and after leave. Doesn't seem to happen anymore. How many of us are getting our leave slots as requested, not many I bet. The powers that be at rostering, asked us recently, NOT to contact them via email, because they were being overwhelmed with queries and requests. It's hardly surprising, with the constant changes in our rosters, and it appears to be getting worse.
tic
tic
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Throughout the years we've seen the following take place:
1) Increase in Duty Limitations
2) Reduction of Rest Times
3) Reduced standards of Hotels for crew rest
4) Increase in Roster period (remember the 28 day roster)
5) Increase in Duties (Mixed Fleet Flying and both seats)
6) Reduction of Days off (in combination with #4)
What sacrifices have management made throughout these years? (I'm not holding my breath for an answere)
Is it too much to ask for some stability in our rosters Mr VPO?
1) Increase in Duty Limitations
2) Reduction of Rest Times
3) Reduced standards of Hotels for crew rest
4) Increase in Roster period (remember the 28 day roster)
5) Increase in Duties (Mixed Fleet Flying and both seats)
6) Reduction of Days off (in combination with #4)
What sacrifices have management made throughout these years? (I'm not holding my breath for an answere)
Is it too much to ask for some stability in our rosters Mr VPO?
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Is it really asking too much to expect a reasonably stable roster with minimal changes in a modern "21st Century" airline given the masses of software at our disposal these days to organise such things?
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Slavery
It certainly is a shame to see things heading South like this.
With GF constantly talking about saving pennies and walking that fine line between profit and loss, i am suprised the bean counters havent done 5 minutes of number crunching to conclude the massive Training costs both on the flight deck and down the back in the cabin could be stemmed with a little more thrown both ways not only in financial remuneration but as Dicks in Cider has said, a little respect towards the troops goes a long long way....
Anyway, heres hoping.... as the first couple of resignations have started leaking through from the new non typed A320 guys, if its the trickle before the massive flow, perhaps Mr GF and his sidekicks can make some changes to stem what could be a very very expensive mistake for them...
Happy Slaving!
With GF constantly talking about saving pennies and walking that fine line between profit and loss, i am suprised the bean counters havent done 5 minutes of number crunching to conclude the massive Training costs both on the flight deck and down the back in the cabin could be stemmed with a little more thrown both ways not only in financial remuneration but as Dicks in Cider has said, a little respect towards the troops goes a long long way....
Anyway, heres hoping.... as the first couple of resignations have started leaking through from the new non typed A320 guys, if its the trickle before the massive flow, perhaps Mr GF and his sidekicks can make some changes to stem what could be a very very expensive mistake for them...
Happy Slaving!
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Hotel Gym
There is a training bond in theorie but as I said in a previous thread; most guys do not really care about the bond.
If rostering/ management does not get the situation under control they can expect a massive fluctuation on all fleets over the next few months. A high number of local captains are in the pipeline with ETIHAD (some just finished their command training) and a large number of new joiners who came non- type rated a few months ago are already jumping ship.
GF is in many respects a nice airline to work for but when it comes to adminstration and management it is the worst!
GF Managers replace the clowns in planning and start to respect your local and expat workforce a bit more and you might have a few pilots left next summer.
If rostering/ management does not get the situation under control they can expect a massive fluctuation on all fleets over the next few months. A high number of local captains are in the pipeline with ETIHAD (some just finished their command training) and a large number of new joiners who came non- type rated a few months ago are already jumping ship.
GF is in many respects a nice airline to work for but when it comes to adminstration and management it is the worst!
GF Managers replace the clowns in planning and start to respect your local and expat workforce a bit more and you might have a few pilots left next summer.
Last edited by Frozen Turtle; 23rd Nov 2005 at 09:18.
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There is a training bond in theorie but as I said in a previous thread; most guys do not really care about the bond.
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Whoa up there, some pretty broad and wild statements being made here;
You may not be be concerned about the bond my friend, but reality is it exists and you signed it. Tread with caution....it may not be in your best interests to go talking so openly and publically about treating the bond issue as a non entity.
I think (hope) what you really meant was that some feel strong enough about the situation and conditions that they're prepared to consider taking the hit in order to clear them of any remaining bond issues.
There is a training bond in theorie but as I said in a previous thread; most guys do not really care about the bond.
I think (hope) what you really meant was that some feel strong enough about the situation and conditions that they're prepared to consider taking the hit in order to clear them of any remaining bond issues.
Last edited by Dixons Cider; 26th Nov 2005 at 11:44.
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Frosty turtle
If thats for real, then things really are going to be interesting!!
No I hadn't heard that one, however can you substantiate it? What I mean is, its not just a "I heard from a friend who heard from a friend" one is it?
If thats for real, then things really are going to be interesting!!
No I hadn't heard that one, however can you substantiate it? What I mean is, its not just a "I heard from a friend who heard from a friend" one is it?
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Did you know that a bunch of recent joiners never signed for a training bond? Company just forgot about it.
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As far as I am concerned the A340 schedule is simply great, but I do understand the difficulties you get, you A320 guys, ...
It seam that the long haul sector is like working for another airliner.
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ChrispartickGA
It seam that the long haul sector is like working for another airliner
It sounds to me like you just joined the A340 fleet and still dont believe your luck, wait mate, give it a month and you'll soon realise it's the same good old GF. The proverbial tlx under the door last minute, the wonderful hotels, the familiar yet tantalizing "YOU HAVE ROSTER CHANGES" and lets not forget my personal favorite ACARS message "we now require you upon arrival BAH to operate AUH - MCT and deadhead after 3 hours on GFxxx to BAH. B/Rgds OPS"
It seam that the long haul sector is like working for another airliner
It sounds to me like you just joined the A340 fleet and still dont believe your luck, wait mate, give it a month and you'll soon realise it's the same good old GF. The proverbial tlx under the door last minute, the wonderful hotels, the familiar yet tantalizing "YOU HAVE ROSTER CHANGES" and lets not forget my personal favorite ACARS message "we now require you upon arrival BAH to operate AUH - MCT and deadhead after 3 hours on GFxxx to BAH. B/Rgds OPS"
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Long sectors with little rest.
Wait for 2-3 hours for your room in LHR (and a few other stations). There is NO excuse for this. It shows that the company has absolutely NO REGARD for its employees.
Some hotels just pathetic--especially the ones used for overflow (ie MCT Holiday Inn).
Fly all day, 24 hours off, fly all night and then repeat the sequence with an Western block thrown in for good measure---gets just plain dangerous.
Rostering---good luck getting anything you like. Management-please spring for a computer system that at least allows some semblence of order.
People are leaving and more going. I know at least 2 who are waiting to go back to Europe as they are fed up (their bonds are not an issue because they don't plan to come back).
One French pilot quit because the company would not give him time off to be with his hospitalized wife. Baby was born premature and died. (although to be fair I have seen GF be very considerate with other cases).
Seems you have to bribe crew sked to get anything or keep them from taking a good flt from you. Just look at who gets the ATH and other good turns on a consistant basis. If your not a connected Arab--forget it.
PLEASE--PLEASE--hire anothr expat HOFO. The last 3 years have been great. We can't deal with the óld'way again.
Wait for 2-3 hours for your room in LHR (and a few other stations). There is NO excuse for this. It shows that the company has absolutely NO REGARD for its employees.
Some hotels just pathetic--especially the ones used for overflow (ie MCT Holiday Inn).
Fly all day, 24 hours off, fly all night and then repeat the sequence with an Western block thrown in for good measure---gets just plain dangerous.
Rostering---good luck getting anything you like. Management-please spring for a computer system that at least allows some semblence of order.
People are leaving and more going. I know at least 2 who are waiting to go back to Europe as they are fed up (their bonds are not an issue because they don't plan to come back).
One French pilot quit because the company would not give him time off to be with his hospitalized wife. Baby was born premature and died. (although to be fair I have seen GF be very considerate with other cases).
Seems you have to bribe crew sked to get anything or keep them from taking a good flt from you. Just look at who gets the ATH and other good turns on a consistant basis. If your not a connected Arab--forget it.
PLEASE--PLEASE--hire anothr expat HOFO. The last 3 years have been great. We can't deal with the óld'way again.