Middle East Pilots Need to Stop Crying!
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Middle East Pilots Need to Stop Crying!
Hello there, I understand currently there is alot going through the industry and alot of problems. But seriously, if you are flying the middle east for a good company, you have it set. So oh my goodness you have to fly more hours, or you're not making the 250,000+ salary!!! Thats ridiculous and another reason why my generation of pilots are quickly going to take over the oldies still flying in the cockpits with a giant chip on the shoulder. I see the young generation as willing, bright and technology literate. We don't care how much we get paid and have no expectations for a 100,000+ salary!
The generation now in the cockpits is all about $$$ and how to complain. Guess what, you picked a career thats in an unstable industry and I know I don't have to tell you that but it seems you have forgotten. If Emirates or Gulf Air or Qatar gave me a job right now, I doubt because I am not even close with the hours... guess what my bags are packed and I am at the airport in 15 minutes!
Remember why it is your flying and try to enjoy it instead of making it political and ruining it for the younger generation... because if you don't you will be crying, pissing and moaning unemployed when I have your job!
Happy Landings!
The generation now in the cockpits is all about $$$ and how to complain. Guess what, you picked a career thats in an unstable industry and I know I don't have to tell you that but it seems you have forgotten. If Emirates or Gulf Air or Qatar gave me a job right now, I doubt because I am not even close with the hours... guess what my bags are packed and I am at the airport in 15 minutes!
Remember why it is your flying and try to enjoy it instead of making it political and ruining it for the younger generation... because if you don't you will be crying, pissing and moaning unemployed when I have your job!
Happy Landings!
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When I was a 19 year old wannabe sitting on the other side of the fence I was thinking the same as you.
Archive your statement and reread it 15 years from now (assuming you've got an airline job) and tell us then if you still feel this way.
Archive your statement and reread it 15 years from now (assuming you've got an airline job) and tell us then if you still feel this way.
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I was brought up differently. I don't care about the money, I just want to fly. Taxes? Huh! I live in the highest taxed country in the world! Land/Property Tax, Automobile Tax, PST, GST, Income Tax, Basically whatever they can tax you on they will. The only thing left they haven't taxed yet is air itself and I wouldn't be surprised if they did that too. Our gas is aparently higher than the states at 84.6 cents per litre. So when it comes to complaining, I think the Canadian pilot has something to complain about, with all that plus no job security.
At least when you wake up, you know you get to go flying. Some pilots wake up each morning and check the company website to see if their airline is still flying!
So am I a wannabe, sure I guess you could call me a wannabe, and I am not saying I don't understand, noone wants to fly for free... but there are places in the world that are alot worst off in terms of aviation than the middle east!
BTW I'm not exactly looking from the other side of the fence. I am 19, I have been flying since I was 15, have my private, night rating and now working on the time building. HAve spent 2 years in Air Cadets, worked for Air500/Innotech Execaire in the maintenance hangar on Citation X's, CL-604's, MU2's and Westwinds. I also work at a pilot shop. So for a 19 year old I think I have done pretty good so far! Not just a dreamer I am a doer!
At least when you wake up, you know you get to go flying. Some pilots wake up each morning and check the company website to see if their airline is still flying!
So am I a wannabe, sure I guess you could call me a wannabe, and I am not saying I don't understand, noone wants to fly for free... but there are places in the world that are alot worst off in terms of aviation than the middle east!
BTW I'm not exactly looking from the other side of the fence. I am 19, I have been flying since I was 15, have my private, night rating and now working on the time building. HAve spent 2 years in Air Cadets, worked for Air500/Innotech Execaire in the maintenance hangar on Citation X's, CL-604's, MU2's and Westwinds. I also work at a pilot shop. So for a 19 year old I think I have done pretty good so far! Not just a dreamer I am a doer!
Last edited by EK_Dantos; 4th May 2004 at 14:20.
deep breathe.........and BLOW your own trumpet !!
... Dummy!
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19 is very young. Everything's simple.
Wait until you have a wife and kids and responsibility. Different "ball-game" to use a north americanism
Good luck with your career, but become MATURE first.
Wait until you have a wife and kids and responsibility. Different "ball-game" to use a north americanism
Good luck with your career, but become MATURE first.
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I am quite mature... but it seems that everyother Emirates pilot I talk to loves flying for Emirates... its just that most of the ones on just this forum have only negative things to say. Makes me think that maybe its not the airline that has problems but the pilots.
No offence, but you guys are terrible role models for someone who looks up to you. Hope you're not that kind of support to your children with whatever they choose to do
No offence, but you guys are terrible role models for someone who looks up to you. Hope you're not that kind of support to your children with whatever they choose to do
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Dantos:
Wait until get married; buy a house; plan for two children going to University ( let alone five ); and having a decent retirement until you say $100,000 isn't enough.
Pilots don't generally plan to become expats from the start of their careers. It is something we do because of circumstances most often out of our control, like our airline going out of business or dramatically downsizing. The best job you can get is at a major airline in your own country. Granted AC is in trouble but there will be good ones to work for when you are ready.
Typhoonpilot
Wait until get married; buy a house; plan for two children going to University ( let alone five ); and having a decent retirement until you say $100,000 isn't enough.
Pilots don't generally plan to become expats from the start of their careers. It is something we do because of circumstances most often out of our control, like our airline going out of business or dramatically downsizing. The best job you can get is at a major airline in your own country. Granted AC is in trouble but there will be good ones to work for when you are ready.
Typhoonpilot
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Thanks Typhoon! I realize that but I guess it all lifestyle. A few months back I talked to a retired AC 747 captain who was complaining he couldn't retire on a yealy pension of over $200,000!!! And I thought to myself I may never even make that kind of money flying nevermind as a pension. I personally would be grateful to be working for a great airline such as Emirates (ranked #2 in the world) IT would be nice if an Emirates employee showed alittle pride in their company.
My parents don't make much... together they make about $80,000CDN. Theres taxes ontop. But anyways. We enjoy a 2500sq.ft. home, my sister and I both attend post secondary institutes, and my parents just bought her a car and they help me with my flight training and all in all I am grateful for what I got and I think if they can keep a $390,000 home on their salary, I think Emirates pilots can do pretty well. But then again my dad may never drive a Ferrari but thats not a necessity its a luxury and there are more important things to look after.
My parents don't make much... together they make about $80,000CDN. Theres taxes ontop. But anyways. We enjoy a 2500sq.ft. home, my sister and I both attend post secondary institutes, and my parents just bought her a car and they help me with my flight training and all in all I am grateful for what I got and I think if they can keep a $390,000 home on their salary, I think Emirates pilots can do pretty well. But then again my dad may never drive a Ferrari but thats not a necessity its a luxury and there are more important things to look after.
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Dantos, have to agree with GlueBall,
just imagine about your situation when you would be flying since 10 or 15 years for EK: Family with kids, wanting to go to University, you have to take care about your pension, cause there is no social security in this country, so you have to put sufficient money beside..
Then you will get bored of your job after a few years.. except the t/o and the ldg everything has to be flown according company policy with the ap, good chance, that in the future even the ldg has to be autoland.. so the most exciting to do during a leg is the menue choice...
You are long time away from your family, often for more than 3 or 4 days...
Another aspect is, companies will pay lower saleries, as long they can find people being ready to work for a discount. If pilots stick together, they donīt have a chance to do so.. So willing to work for a discount is poisoning the market.. Yes, I know it is easily said, cause if you wonīt do that, for sure in the current situation on the market there will allways be others to do so..
Just my 2 cents according this topic..
Regards..
Then you will get bored of your job after a few years.. except the t/o and the ldg everything has to be flown according company policy with the ap, good chance, that in the future even the ldg has to be autoland.. so the most exciting to do during a leg is the menue choice...
You are long time away from your family, often for more than 3 or 4 days...
Another aspect is, companies will pay lower saleries, as long they can find people being ready to work for a discount. If pilots stick together, they donīt have a chance to do so.. So willing to work for a discount is poisoning the market.. Yes, I know it is easily said, cause if you wonīt do that, for sure in the current situation on the market there will allways be others to do so..
Just my 2 cents according this topic..
Regards..
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Mr. Dantos has been sent to the cooler. There's nothing wrong with lively conversation but when someone who's a little wet behind the ears starts ruffling the feathers of the regulars and he starts getting louder and louder then it's time to take a cold shower.
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even donīt think about unions in the UAE!
No, they donīt like that in the country...
All is being regulated by the rules of the markets... If you canīt accept the terms and conditions, you go...
Quite easy and simple...
All is being regulated by the rules of the markets... If you canīt accept the terms and conditions, you go...
Quite easy and simple...
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Dear EK Dantos
I admire your enthusiasm, I would say most of us here in the desert were once like you.
It would appear you are afflicted with the two of the more common blights of youth. Eternal Optimism, and total confidence that you know more than those who beat the path before you.
What you can't even hope to understand from your position at the bottom of the greasy pole, is that it is because of the neverending supply of people like you, who are prepared to sell their soul to strap on a nice shiny jet, that we end up with a bunch of dissapointed and dissolusioned guys at the top of the greasy pole. (I am using a lot of poetic licence in suggesting that EK is at the top!!!!!!)
I hope you make it in your chosen profession.
I would be keen to talk to you in 25 years when you have been in the Desert for 15 years, your wife and kids are living in a different country to you, you are continually pissed off because of the lack of sleep due to the night flying, your bank balance is significantly less than your school mate who became a plumber, bought five houses and is now retired living in BC.
I would be prepared to make a small wager that in your more reflective moments you might think back to your days of exuberent youth and think " I now understand what those guys were trying to tell me!"
Aviation is very much about learning from the mistakes of those who went before you. As has alway been the case, the old and bold live to pass on their experience to the next generation of torch bearers, so that you do not have to make the same mistakes they made.
It would appear their time and effort will be wasted on someone as clever as you.
dmf
I admire your enthusiasm, I would say most of us here in the desert were once like you.
It would appear you are afflicted with the two of the more common blights of youth. Eternal Optimism, and total confidence that you know more than those who beat the path before you.
What you can't even hope to understand from your position at the bottom of the greasy pole, is that it is because of the neverending supply of people like you, who are prepared to sell their soul to strap on a nice shiny jet, that we end up with a bunch of dissapointed and dissolusioned guys at the top of the greasy pole. (I am using a lot of poetic licence in suggesting that EK is at the top!!!!!!)
I hope you make it in your chosen profession.
I would be keen to talk to you in 25 years when you have been in the Desert for 15 years, your wife and kids are living in a different country to you, you are continually pissed off because of the lack of sleep due to the night flying, your bank balance is significantly less than your school mate who became a plumber, bought five houses and is now retired living in BC.
I would be prepared to make a small wager that in your more reflective moments you might think back to your days of exuberent youth and think " I now understand what those guys were trying to tell me!"
Aviation is very much about learning from the mistakes of those who went before you. As has alway been the case, the old and bold live to pass on their experience to the next generation of torch bearers, so that you do not have to make the same mistakes they made.
It would appear their time and effort will be wasted on someone as clever as you.
dmf
Last edited by druckmefunk; 6th May 2004 at 08:23.
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It's a relative world and to compare yourself to others is dangerous...........if you're from Canada a plumber X from Y is livng the high life.......who knows, but I know Canada is a tragic place for aviation. Go with what you know and relatively speaking EK is one of the best. Bank on it............
Ciao
Ciao
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