Sagey

BigGrecian that is very true. The UK CAA no longer make candidates take an EEG. However, it is a requirement in some JAA countries so they do state that "you may be required to have an EEG if you wish to fly their aircraft professionally". Medical requirements do change with advances in medicine/research, so if you have failed one before, that does not necessarily guarantee failure today or in the future.

Strobe lights

Well, letīs begin this 2nd part full of thrills with the never ending and JAA unresolved story of the silly and discriminatory colour vision restrictions!!
I posted a new thread about omitting information in the medical form before an initial 1st class exam but I will explain it here as it is colour vision related.
As most of us are in the same boat Iīll try to explain my problem as clearly as possible so if you guys can give me some good advice I will highly appreciate it (obviously donīt expect me to tell you names or countries, etc.. ok?).
Here is the situation.. In my country I failed the colour vision test (that means Ishihara and Beyne lantern and later on in a second attempt, an anomaloscope), but due to the reason that I have an FAA 1st class medical certificate with no restrictions (I know I know, itīs useless) and due to that I donīt trust my country and I have big hopes of becoming a pilot someday and due to that I know that I am colour safe for flying and Iīve heard of similar cases of acceptance of medical certificates between countries and acceptance of different lantern tests, etc.., I thought about giving it another try.
I had a denial in my country due to "colour unsafe" and I decided to give it another try in a different country in one of my many flights around europe. What happened? the country that I went and with wich I did a new initial medical examination used other Beine lantern and guess what? I passed, and they gave me a fresh and brand new unrestricted JAA 1st class medical certificate (can you beleive it?).
And the problem is.. Obviously I asked for acceptance in my country but guess what? no answer to my pleads, nothing, no response, until....
well, tired of waiting I went to talk to one of the responsibles, and here is what he said.. well Mr., you failed with us and that it is finished and closed with us and besides (after they received the files from the JAA country that officially sent them my medical files saying that I passed) you can not go making a puzzle with this, and then I said, well what about if I go to the country that gave me the medical certificate and get the ATP licence? and he said, well then we will tell the JAA and the country at which you passed, we will tell that you failed the lantern with us, and besides that, you didnīt mention in your medical form that you had a denial with us!!!!!
And at the end he said, we will study your case and we might raise it to JAA for a sub-committee, so they can decide.
Ok. besides omitting that info (which I will like to know if I can ammend), it is clearly that these people in my country will find and will do anything for not passing me or accepting anything from me (even though itīs all in JAR).
My questions..
-Will I loose my medical certificate?
-Can I ammend the information that I omitted?
-What happens when you tell that you have been denied a medical ceritificate in another JAA country? They will also denie it? Theyīll treat you different?
-What happens if they tell JAA that I didnīt pass.
-What happens if they raise it to a JAA sub-committee?

Hope to hear from you all..
Thanks,

CPLtitov

hi
can anyone describe to me precisely what are the tests performed on your vision ?
how do they do to detect LAsek and lasik ?

thanks

Expeditious

I 'm thinking of LASIK surgery, do i still stand a chance to get Class I after LASIK? or is there any restriction after LASIK?

Eddie_Crane

Reading of letters on a plate about 6m away from you...
reading of some non-sense (from a book), at varying distances...
"detecting" an object entering your "perpheral field of vision" (from the corner of your eye.. so to speak..)
ummm... what else...
placing an odd ruler-like thing on your nose with a sliding thingy on it, and sliding the thingy closer and closer to your eyes until you can't see it sharply anymore...
colour vision with Ishihara plates (flicking through random pages of a book with numbers/figures/non-sense, I was shown 10 or so, with one second to identify each, no mistakes allowed... you won't have a problem with it if your colour vision is ok)..
various other tests to assess your eyes' health (looking into your eyes with various "tools"...).
I think LASIK *might* be detected with the slit lamp, which they do have and do use during the eye tests (I hate it because I can see the blood vessels in my eyes for a few seconds while they do it ).
Can't really think of any other tests right now... but do hope this helps somehow..

niknak

Just to depress you even further, the UK CAA Medical branch have a completely computerised system, this allows them to spot trends in the results of individual medicals over the years.
But conceivably, the time may come when national CAAs decide to share information, particularly if, as in Europe the JAA medical is of the same standard in every country.
Furthermore, many airlines have their own medical standards which equate to or exceed the JAA standard, so you could fall down there.

If you attempt to cheat on the medical, you're cheating yourself.

CPLtitov

thank you
can you remember what tests do they do for the health of the eye ? slit lamp and what else ? eye scanning ? topography ?
what do you mean when you say that you see your blood vessels in slit lamp ?

bye thanks

Oh that's super!

Surely you can't just 'forget' that you failed a medical before?

Perhaps, it's your integrity that should be questioned if you deliberately concealed it, or if you didn't pay attention to the form properly and ticked the wrong box, then it's your attention span (or attention to detail) that should be questioned?

Either way, I suggest write to the authority where you did your latest medical and inform them of your error.

captwannabe

I've a similar question - I used to have hayfever when I was younger, I'm still quite young but it doesn't affect me any more, but should I tell the CAA I have hayfever? Is there any chance that hayfever could come back to affect me in the future?


Mods - Wasn't sure whether I should have posted in this thread or in hayfever thread

kherranz

If u are from Spain, send me a mp....

benwizz

Hi, At my local opticians I have been given the ishihara test in the past and failed and I was wondering if there were any statistics on whether most people who fail the isihara plates fail the lantern test?

Also, do people ever buy copies of the test to get used to the plates, is it unwise in terms of serious implications of 'cheating' or is it accepted that people want to reassure themself beforehand by practising so you know what to expect?

benwizz

I'll look into the City Uni, sounds like a good idea

From what I've gleaned from the stacks of info here, am I right in thinking that in summary - if you go for just the Ģ30 colour vision test and you fail, then you can't resit it even if you go for a full class 1? And that the only way would be to try in other JAA/JAR countries for the colour test, then if you pass that do the full medical, and then convert it back to a UK Class 1?

Eddie_Crane

No sorry, I don't remember details of all the tests.
They just look into your eyes with various machines/tools, and one that puffs some air onto your eyeball, don't know what it's called or what it is for.
I remember the slit lamp cos the lady who examined my eyes said "This is a slit lamp blabla...". All I mean by "blood vessels" is that I could see those "little red veiny" things in my eyes with the very bright light going into them, even though I was told to look away.
Hope it's of some help, good luck to you.

C.

Sagey

The puff of air into both eyes measures eye pressure (well I think it does). To be honest, the eye test is very thorough, lots of different tests, looking into the eyes etc. If you are very worried about it, it might be worth booking a trip to an optician, who will charge you about Ģ25 but will be able to give you a good idea of your chances of success.

There is a form that you can download on the CAA website that tells you what they are looking for, or not. The optician will be able to say if you meet their requirements.

CPLtitov

how do they detect lasek since there is no flap involved like in lasik ?

benwizz

On their website they have a new colour vision test which is a movie with a coloured square moving around the screen which changes colour. The idea is that during the 90 second clip people who are colour defective cannot see the square in some places for a few seconds (although I could see it all fine despite failing the ishihara).
It's interesting to see that: It can be found at the bottom of this link: http://www.city.ac.uk/avrc/colourtest.html

benwizz

Here is the link to the colour vision testing clinic at the City University in London: http://www.city.ac.uk/optometry/html/colour_vision.html
I thought that colourvision was purely a male thing

AlexEvans

Yeah there is a flap with LASEK, it's just the method of creating the flap is different - there's no blade like with LASIK. I hear that the chances of corneal haze with LASEK is higher than with LASIK. Something to check out with an impartial medical professional...

I've never managed to get a definitive answer from either a surgeon or optician about whether or not LASIK is detectable with a slit lamp. Most say "probably".

From what I remember there is no topography performed at Aviation House.

Loose rivets

One of the strange things about eyes, is that so much of the life support system is in front of the sensors! Here is one I took earlier as they say.

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Having read with interest these pages over the past couple of years I am now of the opinion that the only way that this issue will ever be resolved is by legal action in the UK and/or EU Courts, similar to that taken by Dr. Arthur Pape and others in Australia.

I am presently researching a legal challenge, in both technical and social terms.

One area I have investigated is that of discrimination and I was interested to learn that the Disability Rights Commission's new Code of Practice on the Disability Discrimination Act, whilst identifying total colour vision as a disability, specifies Red/Green colour vision deficiency as NOT being a disability. Having been involved with disability issues for several years I find this extremely peculiar, particularly as the same CoP identifies other very minor deficiencies as BEING disabilities.

I have very lightly challenged the DRC to explain their publication, as folllows:

"I write on behalf of myself and probably numerous other pilots with colour vision deficiencies (CVD). I find it extremely peculiar that the new DRC DDA CoP refers to total colour vision as being a disability within the meaning of s.1 DDA but specifically identifies Red/Green colour vision, i.e. that most commonly suffered by males, as NOT being a disability. There is a blatant lack of consistency in this approach. Furthermore, it is odd that the DRC has removed the question referring to the CAA and colour vision deficient pilots from its website. Taking both of these issues into context, it would appear to me that the DRC has been put under pressure into identifying Red/Green colour vision deficiency as not being a disability within the meaning of the DDA. This effectively means that the DRC is potentially as guilty of discrimination as the 'protectors' of CVD itself. You are obviously aware that it has been held by separate Courts in Australia that this approach is discriminatory and luckily for CVD pilots, whilst this is a Code of Practice it is only that and being very new has not yet been challenged in the Courts. I look forward to your comments."

Of course, the powers-that-be may be correct, maybe CVD pilots flying in EU airspace do present a clear and present threat to flight safety and therefore the safety of people both in the air and on the ground. If that is the case then why are the powers-that-be performing their duties in such a negligent manner as to permit CVD pilots from outside the EU who would not meet the colour visual standards of the JAA to operate passenger laden airliners in EU airspace on a daily basis? What would the public outcry be if a major accident was found to be due to the CVD of a pilot from outside the EU? But it's not going to happen because in both the USA and Australia, where far more relaxed CVD standards are applied, aircraft are NOT falling out of the skies, not by day and not by night.

It would help if the powers-that-be could simply keep people informed of any positive developments. Regrettably, they seem to shroud this issue in a cloak of secrecy, and one can only conclude that it is done in order to protect the 'protectors' of CVD discrimination.

Head over the parapet, awaiting incoming............

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