VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)
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http://www.physorg.com/news93792566.html
I reckon, we're probably the last generation to suffer from color blindness
I reckon, we're probably the last generation to suffer from color blindness
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I just got a NO-GO from the UK-CAA on my -7,00 eyes. 
(Prescription).
I explained them in a mail that my optician actually wanted me to wear
-6,75, but they are not produced and -6,50 i too weak for me. I think I will try again next year, as I think I am very close to the go/no-go limit.
Does anyone know what they set as the measuring distance?
The surface of the eye - contact lenses - or the glasses distance, because you add 1 dioptre when using glasses, and IMHO it is not fair to add 1 dioptre, just because of the equipment.
(Prescription). I explained them in a mail that my optician actually wanted me to wear
-6,75, but they are not produced and -6,50 i too weak for me. I think I will try again next year, as I think I am very close to the go/no-go limit.
Does anyone know what they set as the measuring distance?
The surface of the eye - contact lenses - or the glasses distance, because you add 1 dioptre when using glasses, and IMHO it is not fair to add 1 dioptre, just because of the equipment.
Last edited by SAS-A321; 19th Nov 2007 at 18:11. Reason: Typos
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Just like Tomorrow's World said our cars would all fly by now
The thing is that it shouldn't be us who has to change. The standard of colour vision required by JAA is utterly unrepresentative of that required in order for a professional pilot to safely do his job. According to both UK and EU law, the current regulations are at best discriminatory and at worst downright illegal. Some of us have already taken legal advice on the subject, the general response being prolonged open-mouths or, "WHAT?!".
There are 2 possible routes out of the currently untenable situation:
1. The regulators seeing sense
2. Litigation
Whilst I would like to think that the former will prevail I suspect the latter will be inevitable.
The thing is that it shouldn't be us who has to change. The standard of colour vision required by JAA is utterly unrepresentative of that required in order for a professional pilot to safely do his job. According to both UK and EU law, the current regulations are at best discriminatory and at worst downright illegal. Some of us have already taken legal advice on the subject, the general response being prolonged open-mouths or, "WHAT?!".
There are 2 possible routes out of the currently untenable situation:
1. The regulators seeing sense
2. Litigation
Whilst I would like to think that the former will prevail I suspect the latter will be inevitable.
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I personally don't see how they can say it's safe for me to fly on the JAA class 2 medical, as a PPL, where arguably I would spend 100% of my time VFR, on far far less equiptment than in a big jet with co-pilot and banks of nav aids and atc/tcas/radar and IFR, when suddenly my eyes ARE NOT good enough 
.... I don't care if you have the eyesight of superman, if you hit another aircraft it's going to hurt whatever medical you have .....
Bit of an odd question, but could this be classed as discrimination?? As how can they say people are unfit to fly on a CAA licence due to eyesight, yet there are hundreds of american / FAA pilots who fly in the CAA states with far "worse" prescriptions than the CAA allow..... If it is proven that your corrected vision is no factor to flight safty, and bearing in mind you have to by law carry a spare pair of spectacles anyway, how can they refuse you a medical? 
....shocking 
.... I don't care if you have the eyesight of superman, if you hit another aircraft it's going to hurt whatever medical you have ..... Bit of an odd question, but could this be classed as discrimination?? As how can they say people are unfit to fly on a CAA licence due to eyesight, yet there are hundreds of american / FAA pilots who fly in the CAA states with far "worse" prescriptions than the CAA allow
..... If it is proven that your corrected vision is no factor to flight safty, and bearing in mind you have to by law carry a spare pair of spectacles anyway, how can they refuse you a medical? ....shocking
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The vision has nothing to do with safety as long as it is corrected!
Kengineer-130: I have for many years said that JAR is discriminating people with having a vision limit! First it was +/- 3, then +/- 5 now +/- 6 and no renewal limit... what makes +/-6 better now than five years ago!? Discrimination I say!
With the removal of the renewal limit I guess the initial limit is also on its way out... so what is taking them so long? Maybe they should start focusing on other areas, as peoples health, as a poor health increases the effect of fatigue. Much worse than -8 on both eyes.
For once the Americans are right and allowing people to fly as long as the vision is corrected.
Just so people can understand my frustation, I have been fighting to become a pilot for about 10 years and I am not quitting this close to my goal!
Kengineer-130: I have for many years said that JAR is discriminating people with having a vision limit! First it was +/- 3, then +/- 5 now +/- 6 and no renewal limit... what makes +/-6 better now than five years ago!? Discrimination I say!
With the removal of the renewal limit I guess the initial limit is also on its way out... so what is taking them so long?
Maybe they should start focusing on other areas, as peoples health, as a poor health increases the effect of fatigue. Much worse than -8 on both eyes. For once the Americans are right and allowing people to fly as long as the vision is corrected.
Just so people can understand my frustation, I have been fighting to become a pilot for about 10 years and I am not quitting this close to my goal!
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SAS, it is my dream too , I don't see ('scuse the pun ) how in this day and age, with all the discrimination laws floating round that they can hold out for much longer...... The annoying thing is that it is NOT a safty issue, it has been proven by thousands of people who can safly fly in the same skys as everyone else.
Can you do all the training for CPL and be awarded the licence, but not hold the medical?
, I don't see ('scuse the pun ) how in this day and age, with all the discrimination laws floating round that they can hold out for much longer...... The annoying thing is that it is NOT a safty issue, it has been proven by thousands of people who can safly fly in the same skys as everyone else.Can you do all the training for CPL and be awarded the licence, but not hold the medical?
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You can't be issued a CPL without a Class 1 medical.
You can't fly solo during training without a Class 2 medical.
You can't enrol at any professional flight school without a Class 1 medical.
(Why? Because you'd spoil their stats when you failed to earn a licence at the end of it...)
This post points out some of the reasons why there are limits.
You can't fly solo during training without a Class 2 medical.
You can't enrol at any professional flight school without a Class 1 medical.
(Why? Because you'd spoil their stats when you failed to earn a licence at the end of it...)
This post points out some of the reasons why there are limits.
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To give my honest opinion, what JAA state as the reason for the limit is BS, as it has absolutely no effect on people wearing contact lenses. I have in my years of finding a reason for the limit also heard a lot of crap, even from JAAs doctors and it is not what is stated in the quoute in LastMinute's link.
"There is no myopia limit for revalidation/renewal."
Let me make an example... a person at the age of 20 get a Class 1 with -6 and when he turns 25 it has increased to -8... but he is still allowed to fly...?
Then why is a new guy with -8 not allowed? They have the exactly same vision, but just because you are a new guy you are not allowed to fly a commercial airliner.
...and no! Your vision don't get better because of more experience!
"There is no myopia limit for revalidation/renewal."
Let me make an example... a person at the age of 20 get a Class 1 with -6 and when he turns 25 it has increased to -8... but he is still allowed to fly...?
Then why is a new guy with -8 not allowed? They have the exactly same vision, but just because you are a new guy you are not allowed to fly a commercial airliner.
...and no! Your vision don't get better because of more experience!
Last edited by SAS-A321; 22nd Nov 2007 at 15:53. Reason: Clarification
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If you want chapter and verse, I suggest you read this (starting on page 49):
http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/606984.pdf
http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/606984.pdf
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Perhaps not, given that your eyesight wasn't good enough to spot this thread. 
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Thanks there Shunter,
I'll be following this through, see how it fairs. After months of disappoinment and then reading your thread it brought hope to me, I thought I'd never get that Class 1, now at least there seems to be another chance.
I'll let you know how things go.
Cheers
James.
I'll be following this through, see how it fairs. After months of disappoinment and then reading your thread it brought hope to me, I thought I'd never get that Class 1, now at least there seems to be another chance.
I'll let you know how things go.
Cheers
James.
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Class 1
Dear All
Yesterday I went to Gatwick to have my class 1 done, however there was a question on my eyesight because I have an astigmatism in both eyes, one of 2D and one of 3D. So in the medical they said to have my eyes tested first. After waiting for around three hours, they told me they could not continue my medical any further due to their machine making me 3.5 in the in one eye. I have my PPL with flight time of 55 hrs, with hopes of starting ground school in January. I was thinking about having LASIK surgery which they said at the medical might be a possibility but did not say as I suspected that I would be gaurenteed at medical if the procedure was successful. Any advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated.
Dave Briggs
Yesterday I went to Gatwick to have my class 1 done, however there was a question on my eyesight because I have an astigmatism in both eyes, one of 2D and one of 3D. So in the medical they said to have my eyes tested first. After waiting for around three hours, they told me they could not continue my medical any further due to their machine making me 3.5 in the in one eye. I have my PPL with flight time of 55 hrs, with hopes of starting ground school in January. I was thinking about having LASIK surgery which they said at the medical might be a possibility but did not say as I suspected that I would be gaurenteed at medical if the procedure was successful. Any advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated.
Dave Briggs
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Hello Dave,
Have you been officially denied your medical? If not, get it somewhere else. You then swap it for the UK medical.
This is done pretty often, cheap and quick, as travel + medical is usually much cheaper than a Gatwick medical. All info on Pprune.
If you have been denied, you may need to do your licence elsewhere, which is not really a big deal (many countries do it all in English).
good luck! IP
Have you been officially denied your medical? If not, get it somewhere else. You then swap it for the UK medical.
This is done pretty often, cheap and quick, as travel + medical is usually much cheaper than a Gatwick medical. All info on Pprune.
If you have been denied, you may need to do your licence elsewhere, which is not really a big deal (many countries do it all in English).
good luck! IP
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Would that be another JAA state? If so can you recommend any good ones to go to?
Also I have heard of people who have had their medicals denied in the UK then go abroad to get a medical then come back yet to find that they denied it?
Also I have heard of people who have had their medicals denied in the UK then go abroad to get a medical then come back yet to find that they denied it?
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Well, as I said, depends on if you were denied the medical or if they simply broke off the process.
If you have not been denied it, you do it in another JAA state (eg. Ireland, Czech Republic, Serbia, Germany), then swap it (I believe it is a 20 pound fee). There will be not further investigation from the UK side, as you have fulfilled the JAR requirements in another JAA state.
If you have been denied the UK medical, you will have to fulfill the UK requirements before getting the UK JAA medical.
As I said, you can always do the licence abroad (in Germany / Croatia for example you can use Bristol ground school, Ireland, Malta and the Czech Republic do it all in English too...).
If you have not been denied it, you do it in another JAA state (eg. Ireland, Czech Republic, Serbia, Germany), then swap it (I believe it is a 20 pound fee). There will be not further investigation from the UK side, as you have fulfilled the JAR requirements in another JAA state.
If you have been denied the UK medical, you will have to fulfill the UK requirements before getting the UK JAA medical.
As I said, you can always do the licence abroad (in Germany / Croatia for example you can use Bristol ground school, Ireland, Malta and the Czech Republic do it all in English too...).